I actually did mean Sakura in my second question. She did give some kind of "love" confession to someone who she doesn't really like and the fact that he is not meeting her expectations is why she is sad... \_o_/
Sakura novel thread is derailing, should we delete our post? :amazed
ah I got your impression of "SasuNaru" wrong. Sorry about that
But in the fandom, most NaruSasu stuff have the pimp sauce you wanted
Naruto constantly showering him with love and Sasuke being "............" most of the time.
it's not really about Sasuke giving in to what Naruto wants.
Naruto is always there to take care of sasuke. Just like how itachi wanted
Sasuke can reject Nardo's love all he wants. Naruto will be back and give him a hug.
Basically is more about Naruto assuring Sasuke and lending him a shoulder whenever he is angsty.
Sounds really gay but eh
SasuNaru in the fandom associates OOC Naruto and Sasuke both,
Sasuke coming back home and ordering Naruto to do stuff.........
Heavily involves crazy hardcore sex until Naruto starts crying.
Sasuke will be all "meh I do what I want!!!"
eh, caters towards hardcore yaoi fans who only wants to see dicks.
so if you really want pimp Sauce,
NaruSasu is the right term to address in front of yaoi fans
SasuNaru is downright disgusting to me on how it's potrayed.
reasons why most prefer NaruSasu
That is understandable, its sad how rookies ended up becoming the "Yamchas" to Super Saiyan 3 Naruto and Super Saiyan 3 Sasuke. Kishi really decided to focus on just a few characters leaving everyone else as cheerleaders with no true effect on the plot.
Yeah the manga was established originally with 4 main characters (Naruto, Sasuke, Sakura, and Kakashi) as well as 12 main supporting characters (Gaara, Lee, Neji, Shikkamaru, Choji, Shino, Ino, Lee, Hinata, Kankuro, Temari, Kiba). Sasuke and Naruto got enough panel time to warrant their position, but their story line became increasingly convoluted over time (especially Sasuke's). Sakura and Kakashi became so left behind that they had to get nonsense power ups to be at all effective in the final battle, and their story arcs did not at all pay off as far as i'm concerned. Out of the supporting characters only Shikkamaru and Gaara got the right amount of panel time, and only Shikka, Gaara, and Neji had story lines that payed off, albeit they weren't as good of a pay off as they should be, the rest imo were completely irrelevant (and no Hinata getting her man doesn't make her story-line pay off well for me, because it was handled so poorly Kishi needed a movie to correct the horrible portrayal that pairing got).
So yeah I'd agree that a major issue with the Final battle was how irrelevant every other character was and how badly all characters story lines came together.
Regarding Konoha Library there are not so many discussions nowadays apart from pairings. If I recall correctly you really disliked SasuSaku (or at least the message sent by it) so I though that said pairing happening was a big part of why you lost faith in this manga altogether. Rampaging fans and haters of all major shipdoms are really an...interesting sight to see. I guess it depends if one was a big shipper himself/herself and whether one can look at this pairing shitstorm with amusement or sheer annoyance...
I think SasuSakura is a deplorable pairing, but I really stopped enjoying the manga before then. As for the enjoying the pairing-tards, I really don't find the pairing fans amusing, because the pairings they support are also garbage even if they did happen. It's like two people ask for a PS3 for christmas and one gets nothing and the other gets one that doesn't power on, but the second person still lords over the first just because they got one.
Maybe Kishi learned something from all this though. If there is a short series about Boruto, Sarada and the other kids at least the power inflation madness would be taken out of equation, and if there is no other girl for Kishi to ship Boruto with other than Sarada then maybe we won't have pairing wars like now.
My hope are not high, considering how Kishi defends his choices I feel as if he's learned nothing.
In any case, good luck with your job man and if you find some new promising manga then tell me about it if you find the time. Take care and hoping to still see you around here!
Sounds good, and if I find a really good one i'll let you know.
Basically after the chapter where Obito's silent flashback happens (which was my favorite chapter in the series) I stopped enjoying the manga. The power-scaling, Story, and Pacing were just absolutely painful for me from that moment on. However I hung in there, because the series was such a big part of my life so I needed to see how it ended, and while the ending disappointed me, I'm not going to pretend it was a shocking disappoint, as I kind of expect it to be bad since the Juubi-Fight began and once stuff started to come out about the movie I expect it to be rushed and absolutely terrible, still I needed to see how it ended.
As for the KL, I just found that place incredibly unbearable after the series ended, because there were so many fantards in denial about various different facets of the stories, and the rest were just bitching about the story's quality drop, which I understand and joined in on for a few weeks after the end, but it's like how long can one bitch about a series, before it's just gets boring and stupid to continue (I say as I continue to bitch about things in this response lol). Than when it comes to the NBD, as the manga got worse people began to care less about real discussion and towards the end it was already becoming unbearable, and after the end people cared even less and after most of the interesting stuff in the DB was played out there wasn't anything else knew to discuss. So to me it's just pointless.
That and around the time the series ended just happened to be around the time I got a more time consuming job, so when I have free time there are a-lot other shit that I want to do than hang around the KL/NBD, like post in the OL...Lol, but seriously though, it just got boring and played out.
I'm not going to say I'll never post there again, but I'm pretty much done with the series and really have no drive to even see the Movie. So unless the Sequel series is fucking amazing, I really doubt I'll be posting much in the KL/NBD ever again.
Well, guess as you put it it could have to do with Konoha's mentality. Naruto never gave up on his friend despite him being a HUGE dick to him too and Sakura never stopped loving him despite him later becoming a dick who was willing to even kill her.
The fact that Sasuke was "not himself" and was stated to be "consumed by hatred" and deemed possible to redeem could help too.
In general holding a grudge does not seem what Kishi approves. Otherwise WHY Minato wasn't pissed t Obito who was responsible for his death(even eternal torture in Shinigami's stomach), his wife's death, and even seeing him threatening to blow up his newborn son. He even prevented Kakashi from killing him and apologized to Obito for being unable to save Rin. Normally one would expect the guy to go Rambo on Obito for all that shit. Kishi simply seems to disapprove to hold grudges and being butthurt over anything.
Just grow up and endure seems to be Kishi's theme.
So I guess Sakura...endured. As did Naruto or Hinata(though she not THAT much).
I believe it was stated in the first DB1 concept art and some interviews, but I don't have an exact link. Though I can promise you i'm not making this up.
As for how the story would have been, there wouldn't have been teams or Sasuke. The Teams and Sasuke were developed due to Kishi liking the idea of having a rival for Naruto, and developing the series around that. So if Hinata was the main heroin the story would have been widely different. I'm assuming that a-lot of the Sharingan stuff was story that he had planned for Hyuuga original and than gave it over to Sasuke. Though I don't think Kishi ever stated that, i'm just speculating on that one.
As for how the story would have been different if some how Hinata stayed the MC but the Sasuke rival thing. Well i'm assuming that ether Sakura would have been introduced on another team and played a similar role that Hinata did but for Sasuke or Sasuke would have ended up with Karin, who would have had a bit more importance.
And really just as Sakura's devotion to Sasuke may seem extreme so seems Naruto's almost martyrdom for Sakura who he only liked because he admired her devotion to Sasuke and her desire to be acknowledged. Just for that he was willing to go through so much trouble and later was not even expecting anything willing to "give" her to his rival just so she can be happy. Why was his love for her so deep in the first place?
The thing is Sakura wasn't being a dick to Naruto though, aside from very briefly in the first few chapters. So him trying to help a fellow teammate and the girl he liked for what i'd consider valid reasons, makes sense. If Sakura tried to kill Naruto several times I'd agree with you that we need a better explanation, but that's not the case.
Or why Hinata was so obsessed with Naruto just because he was a "cool" underdog who was worthy of respect? Was it really enough to even risk her life against Pain while possibly even knowing that he pins for Sakura?
I'm willing to buy into this, because everyone in Konoha has the mentality to do this sort of stuff. Fodder Ninja said fuck you in the face of death to protect Naruto and he wasn't even in love with him.
Again what I take issue with is the fact that Sasuke was such a dick that it warrants a better explanation.
Also to expand a little bit more on my issues with the story at large. It's a known fact that Kishimoto originally intended Hinata to be the heroin of the story and have much larger role in the story. However Kishi's editor told him that he should have rival for Naruto, and therefore Sasuke was born. Sakura was than designed after that to be part of the new 3 man cells that were designed after Kishi add this rival. The problem is that in hindsight it seems like Kishi continued to view Hinata as the main heroin of the story, despite already rightfully relinquishing this role to Sakura. The result being that Hinata is depicted as a more compelling heroin than Sakura, but does not get the screen time that would be associated with building up that role, hence NaruHina being under-developed until the last moment story-wise. While Sakura is left lacking these heroic moments and being underdeveloped as a heroin. I always hoped Kishi would eventually embrace Sakura as the main character she should be, but he never did and instead just left her floating around and eventually just threw her Sasuke's way because he was still attached to Hinata main heroin idea he had from the start. But really this fucked everything up pairing wise and story structure wise. Rightfully ether Sakura should have absorbed Hinata's heroin moments or Hinata should have been one of the main characters herself.
If ether of those things would have been done the story as well as the pairings would have been more satisfying. If Kishi went with Sakura, she'd be the one having the heroic moment in the Pain Arc confessing to Naruto, and that would have made her a more relatable character who is not simply stuck in an abusive cycle with Sasuke, and had emotional growth to realize Naruto was the much better man. If Hinata took the MC status from Sakura than her romance with Naruto would have been built up more throughout the manga and we wouldn't have Naruto still in love with Sakura after Hinata's confession and the mess that created.
That's the problem, Kishi could not reconcile the choice he made at the start of the series to make Sakura the MC rather than Hinata and it shows
I believe it was explained early on that Naruto saw himself in Sakura due to how she was treated in the academy for her forehead and that is why when he possess as Sasuke he talks about how he actually likes her forehead. However I don't really care enough to go back and get specific panels or quotes, but that is certainly how I interpreted the manga.
Maybe Sakura was initially after his looks but later was attracted to his troubled but cute status. Or maybe she was moved by how much devoted he was to his family and perhaps how he cared deep down for her and Naruto but tried to not show it. Possibly out of fear that he might lose them as he lost his family.
Your making up reasons which we were never given in the manga. Literally the only reasoning that was provided is that he was so popular and hot, that's it. But even the reasons you gave are not enough to justify how deeply she fell for him. Troubled but cute is a poor reason. Devoted to his family is great, but in the end he even tried to sever his ties with his family and he tried to kill his teammates that were like family too him, so that too is poor reasoning, and admiring one trait in a person is not enough to overshadow attempted murder and years of abuse.
But really IF Kishi did provide some deeper(and long explored) reason for why one of those people in any of those pairings SHOULD love a specific character but not give it to others then it would look like clear favoritism and the underdog pairings really looking like hardly a "competition" but more like microscopic pebbles in the way.
First off I really don't care if it's a competition or not, I care if the writing makes sense. Secondly keeping the reason a mystery is also fine, but it should eventually be revealed, especially if the story itself demands an explanation such as, why would Sakura still be so devoted despite Sasuke being suck a dick to her. We get none of that from the manga ever.
And Naruto never saw SasuSaku as "competition". He only wanted to be acknowledged by Sasuke via battle. Which he now got. I don't see how Sakura was to him a prize which he felt he had to take away from Sasuke. Neither I got this feeling from Kishi's writing IMO.
It's not about taking away from Sasuke. He loved Sakura and wanted to be with her, so he tried to support her the best he could and even supported her lust to be with Sasuke because he loved her that much. Rather the issue here is that why exactly does Sakura even after seeing the guy do all that for her, still want to be with Sasuke over him? It was always her choice to make, but the choice she made makes her look retarded and creates a poor moral example for those who read the manga.
Moving this hear because I can't keep up with that thread:
Yeah, but in part 1 NaruSaku got just as much ship tease as SasuSaku. One could argue that moments like that one during the chuunin exam when Sakura was willing to fail for Naruto's sake were also NaruSaku tease from Sakura's side. And Naruto so obsessed with Sakura in general while Sasuke was rather...moderate in that aspect even if some hints were there.
Hardly an underdog pairing even then for NaruSaku.
When did I say it was an underdog pairing, imo it had the strongest chances throughout the manga of happening. However, Naruto himself was the underdog when it came to Sakura's affections, as she was a Sasuke fangirl.
And with part 2 being so loooong and NaruSaku being thrown since the very start of part 2....and YET keeping Sakura's love for Sasuke somehow. What would be the point really?
Actually NaruSakura was built throughout the manga, especially in the DB's, and Naruto never showed affection for anyone else, even after Hinata's confession the Fanbook still states that he is in love with Sakura, rather than Hinata. But I really don't care about that point so much, as what I already highlighted in that it being the way lesser of two evils for Sakura's character development.
Regarding NaruHina she was arguably even more of an underdog than SasuSaku as she was presented as a minor character with very little interaction time with Naruto even back in part 1.
Hinata was more of an underdog, but she was too much of a underdog. Her presence was not felt enough in the story and even after her confession, Naruto was still being stated to be in love with Sakura and showed little signs of having any feelings for Hinata, until the handholding scene which was very short lived. If Hinata was built up as a more influential character and had a better romantic development with Naruto I'd be more high on the pairing. As it stands, it's just passable for me, rather than being great, and if the pairings resolved with 1 passable pairing and 1 deplorable pairing, i'd rather they be resolved another way. With NaruSakura we get 1 passable pairing and potentially a less deplorable pairing for Sasuke (or no pairing at all for him), which I prefer, but honestly the pairings were such a mess for so long, that I don't even think Kishi should have gone there.
Anyway there were some hints that kinda implied that Sasuke might feel something for Sakura too...or at least consider her enough of a dear comrade to eventually develop something more for her given time.
The problem is we were never given a reason why Sasuke would fall for her. We were never given a reason why Sakura fell so hard for Sasuke that she'd put up with his BS and choose him over jesus incarnate. It makes her a very unrelatable character and a downright bad role model. It's teaching girls basically, hey see that pretty boy over there you like for no reason but he's pretty, well he'll eventually fall for you if you just keep stalking his ass and I know he's a jerk right now and he even abuses you, but after 3-4 years of abuse and a spiritual journey he'll eventually get better, so just keep degrading yourself for him, it'll work out in the end. And yeah you see that other guy whose constantly emotionally supporting your and is basically the perfect guy in every way, well don't go for him because he was unpopular in middle school and he's slightly less hot than that other guy. It's just terrible imo.