Madara was able to use his Rin'negan techniques as an Edo Tensei and so was Nagato; Kabuto explicitly stated in his ET demonstration that bloodline [dojutsu] users have all of their abilities preserved upon resurrection.
Gedo Mazo is no more when the Juubi is present and no more than its empty shell when it's separated from the bijuus. Obito sealed the Juubi within his body and overcame its hatred; Madara can't summon the shell of what is already made whole, and through his failure to summon Kurama out of Naruto it's far fetched to believe he can summon Gedo Mazo out of the Juubi's Jin.
Actually, as shown Madara needed to wait until the Juubi was *reduced* to the Gedo Mazo via multiple bijuu extraction for summoning to occur. Gedo Mazo is literally no more while Obito is the Jinchuuriki of the actual Juubi.
If Madara couldn't even summon Kurama from Naruto, what makes you think he can summon the Mazo, as the Juubi, from Obito's body?
You're right, we don't know the limits of Limbo Hengoku which is why, more often than not, that one technique won't ascend him to Juubito's level. That's all I was saying on that matter. I think the possibility exists for Madara to be above Juubito if not one but both of his original Rin'negan eyes return to his sockets. As Madara stated, dojutsu users need both of their eyes to unleash their true power — so while we do not know the limits of something like Limbo Hengoku, we know Madara will be limited to the extent of having one Rin'negan. I don't believe Madara will be above Juubito until he has all of his powers complete and in tact.
It isn't necessarily evidence that non-energy objects can't destroy it. It is support that energy attacks are more effective. The only thing against non-energy attacks, imo, is that they tend to comprise of the material CT would use to form its shell.
Couldn't we say the same about the beliefs that non-energy attacks vs CT? Them being unjustified compared to -- or the case being weaker than -- the case of CT vs energy attacks.
You know what's even worse: Obito with ST.
Imagine that, every 5 seconds, he just remains intangible.
I'm willing to bet all the Hashirama bandwagoners will jump to the Madara bandwagon if that happens.
Sure, if people weren't sceptical then there'd be no debates and my post count wouldn't be as high as it is now.
Though I wouldn't necessarily say unjustified as the justification is that wood is among the raw materials. I wouldn't use the energy attacks as proof, rather as support seeing as proof implies it was verified. I.E. the assertion that CT can really be destroyed by 'energy' attacks is supported by the fact that the energy attacks around it destroyed it whilst the raw materials contributed to it.
IMO Madara, the way he is now, should be banned from the BD.
You've got a mobile Nagato, Hashirama and some of the best Susanoo feats alongside the Sharingan all in a single body.
I might just bump that thread if Mokuton does get absorbed.
This is where our notions differ. In my case I believe that the composition of the thing hitting CT should be an energy attack like FRS/Bijuu Dama/Jinton- because attacks of such calibre were used to take it out the first time.
So agree to disagree, or alternatively postpone the conclusion till we get something new relating to this?
Same deal with Obito actually. I mean Madara did teach the jutsu to Obito, so that in itself should mean he can use them too!
I think he had a hard time finding someone to take seriously (shockingly Naruto hasn't triggered this reaction; though he was the closest iirc). But my hope is that Hashirama will be taken seriously insofar that we'll see Rinnegan jutus.
Of course that can backfire and we'll see a Mokuton spam fest
Imagine the BD though if Madara ends up taking Hashirama, then the overall fight turns into Madara vs Hashirama and Tobirama?
Though I'm still not totally convinced because it may have the force of Bijuu-Dama, but it wouldn't have the properties of the Bijuu-Dama. For example even though it'll be fast and hard hitting, it'll still be wood hitting. Whereas CT is an energy ball, and with Bijuu-Dama (or rapid ones) you'll have multiple other energy balls colliding with it.
However if we're lucky we'll see it for real. At least I hope, seeing as he couldn't beat Hashirama with just EMS
Pirate on Wheels made it and it somehow ended up on that thread and it was lolzy that I had to sig it
IIRC Rocky has the entire set version.
Can't you say that depends how much chakra (thus force) is put into the orb? E.G. a God Realm CT wouldn't do as much compared to a Nagato CT.
There doesn't seem to be evidence either way, maybe slightly towards my side because the only 'threatening' things to the core seem to be energy-like chakra attacks like CT and Bijuu Dama.
Whereas it seems objects made from 'earth' just literally stick. That's where my scepticism stems from.
Though, one can argue that after that the trees eventually broke. But those were smaller trees compared to the statue. So couldn't you argue as the statue would be moving more etc, it'd probably break?
Its cool, but you seem to be pretty fluent in it despite it not being your first language.
Though attacking a super gravitational force is different from attacking Susanoo. Arguably the arms could literally tear off if the statue tried to spam punch?
Truth be told I'm on the fence on how it'll work. If it'll be pulled like how Susanoo was or if the statue would be torn apart due to the composition.
Personally I reckon that's due to the the current Hashirama bandwagon. Every so often when a character takes the spotlight (when I joined it went from Hebi Sasuke, to Jiraiya, to Itachi, to Pain, to Sage Naruto, to Ay, to Sasuke again, to Naruto... you get the point ) a lot of BDers suddenly underrate anyone pit against them.
Who is limiting? You are the one trying to trim the definition to discredit Naruto's feats.
Naruto already has good terms with Hokage, Kazekage, Raikage's Brother. Now he's cool with all of them except maybe Mizukage lol. He's leading the Shinobi world, not just 1 Village. Lol. Naruto's leadership in this war > Hashirama by far. He's been everywhere, he's been able to detect Zetsus & prevent more casualties, he's powering up the entire army. Hashi shared Bijuus with 5 villages? Naruto shared a Bijuu with the entire Shinobi World. Open your eyes man.
Naruto's ability to subjugate & gain the loyalty of thers is what makes him the leader he is. His ability is UNCANNY. Hashirama does NOT have that. Hashi did it with POWER. Naruto does it with an unexplained empathy, understanding & trust that NOONE can emulate. Naruto LEADS BIJUU!! After the war he will solve all problems. All of them.
A Leader is one who Leads. & I disagree with your incorrect view on Leadership. You might be using half of your brain if you don't think Naruto's Resolve & status as a Child of Prophecy has any relevance to his Leadership lol. By being the CoP, Ruling & Leader the Ninja World is his Destiny, Purpose & Birthright.
Who did Hashirama convince? He might have intimidated many while alive, but he left very little aside from the Will of Fire which he himself inherited to others. As soon as he died, the Uchiha were oppressed & the peace faltered. Do you TRULY know the definition of words? You are the same guy telling me that Naruto has inferior Leadership to Hashirama. Lol. It's YOUR opinionated interpretation.
Naruto >= Hashirama as leader. Not only do people fear & admire him, but they will place blind faith in this individual. The fuckin Bijuu acknowledged him lol. The BIJUU. This kid is not even exclusively leading Humans. Naruto will fix all of the fuckups brought forth by Hashirama's System & he will bring TRUE Peace, Prosperity & Success to the Shinobi world. Naruto will DEFINE what it means to be a Shinobi, which he just did when Neiji died, if you have not noticed. Naruto is akin to a 2nd Rikudo Sennin & he will even surpass him.
Naruto does that. He's actually been the youngest character to have an apprentice. Amongst other impressive feats.
The system makes people: that is the problem. The solution is thus allowing people to make the system. A "Revolution of the Ninja World". Naruto was determined to bring change ever since he met Haku & Zabuza.
It's purely opinion to say that Hashirama is more well rounded.
Naruto will > Rikudo Sennin in Leadership skills by the end of the manga. Do you understand that? There's nothing wrong with him being on par with a YS Heir at the age of 16 lol
I can't stand your entire perspective. How can you try to praise Hashirama & make excuses for his "Leadership" but try to deny Naruto of his praise & credit? The bias you have is crazy & your logic has clearly been tainted by it. One can argue that Naruto's leadership is already on par & in some cases already superior to Hashirama's.
the problem is that on most profiles they forget to put brackets to mention under what kind of situations/circumstances these stats for durability and other things are viable.
Durability: Building-buster+ ordnance required (only before temperature extremes of cold/heat or rough/flat/blunt-edge physical attacks, a super quick stab from a knife sturdy and sharp enough will still make him bleed like any normal human)