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Univ Student



kisame123 was last seen:
Mar 16, 2012
    1. PikaCheeka
      Ah well. Looks like you're gone for good. You were fun while you were here. Good luck on your endeavors.
    2. PikaCheeka
      Where be you lately?
    3. Aono
      thanks for adding me
      hope we can be good friends
    4. IpHr0z3nI

      Naruto gets much, much more help than Naruto.
    5. BlinkST
      I'm too happy for seeing Sasuke again to think about that. It's like seeing Sasuke for the first time.
    6. Amatérasu’s Son
      Amatérasu’s Son
      He's definitely going all out, but that doesn't mean he's at full power.
    7. PoinT_BlanK
      Yes indeed. A MS user seems to have all the tools necessary to handle 5kages.
    8. PikaCheeka
      BUT he knew it wouldn't work. Did you notice how blase he was when he announced the war? He clearly didn't expect the kages to use the Jinn like so many bartering chips and annoyed when they refused. He had even LESS reason to believe that they would use themselves as bartering chips. Sure there was a slight possibility that the Sasuke plan would work, but I never got the impression he expected it to, nor do I get the impression that he cares that he didn't. The best parallel I can think of offhand (and it's a very bad one, so I do apologize) is applying to jobs or graduate schools. For the hell of it you apply to one place that you know you have maybe a .01% chance of getting into, and you not only don't expect to get in, but you don't care if you don't. Sure, if they accept you, that's great. But if they don't, it doesn't mean your plans are compromised and you have to go for Plan B. Tobidara's very obviously a warmonger and he got off to everyone panicking at his name. I have difficulty believing someone like him would have preferred the easy/quiet way out that would have avoided war. What he said about his "original" plan is extremely inconsistent with everything he said and did after the fact, which makes me doubt he really ever took it seriously.

      That isn't what you said though. What you said was: this is one thing that most don't notice, neither Madara or Itachi have demonstrated the ability to use portions of susanoo, effectively and efficiently in battle. Madara and Itachi have BOTH demonstrated this ability. If you were referring to arm-only, you should either have clarified or just not made that statement.

      Itachi's never engineered a fight based off his unparalleled intelligence? His entire fight with Sasuke was purely engineered. Hell, Itachi engineered eight whole years of Sasuke's LIFE. The guy is an absolute genius, both off and on the battlefield. And why do you also deny Itachi of having back-up plans? He has them when he needs them (but usually he doesn't need them). He had an unexpected counter to everything Sasuke threw at him. If something didn't work he'd just try a new route. The problem here is that you are trying to compare the battle smarts of someone who we have seen fight in several long, drawn-out battles to that of someone who typically curbstomps the second he walks onto the scene. Itachi has had ONE drawn-out battle, and it was the most contrived battle in the entire series.

      As for the "Sasuke hasn't shown EMS yet while Madara is already using Rinnegan, so Sasuke > Madara" argument, I don't buy it. Itachi ended up defeating Nagato even though he only had MS and died long before Nagato + Rinnegan did. IMO, neither Sasuke nor Naruto individually will be stronger or better than Madara. A final villain is shit unless he is significantly greater than the hero because there is no great battle at the end. Anyone who has read a lot of fantasy series or manga like this KNOWS that this is almost always the case. This manga is heavily based on emotions and ties. What will defeat Madara in the end isn't going to be just overwhelming power. Naruto and Sasuke will be stronger than him on a purely symbolic level because they have (or will have, in Sasuke's case), the WoF. This whole story has been slowly building up to show us that WoF > raw power, and that's been the case since chapter 1 when Iruka saved Naruto. You had a ridiculously weak character save the hero in a physically impossibly manner because he cared about him. That's just how these emotion-driven series work.

      I have started just skipping those Naruto posts by people, to be honest. :lmao After the whole "training" argument a year and a half ago, I decided it was 100% pointless to try to compare the two characters in the KL.

      Sasuke is a genius, and I'd never deny that, but I don't think he's a greater one than Itachi or Madara. He'll prove himself stronger than Itachi once he showcases EMS, but that's about it. Madara is experienced, yes, but I don't see how that takes away from his genius. At all. That's kind of like saying that my views on certain subjects don't count as much because I've had X more years of college than someone else. For all you know, I could have known more about the subject than the other person when we were both 14. The same goes for Madara. He's experienced, but you can't use that to gloss over any potential genius he has, and he clearly has a lot (just look at what he's done). I also don't think you can his fighting style has been dulled because he hasn't even started fighting yet. He's just screwing around and he's said this. He doesn't seem interested enough to fight yet.
    9. PikaCheeka
      But he was also there to help Sasuke if need be, which he ended up doing. I don't think he ever thought Sasuke could win. I think he wanted to increase the feeling of unity amongst the Kages before stepping in. We know he WANTED them to get together and wage war against him now. After the Sasuke attack, they were already on edge and aware of the fact that some force was against them, so they were more willing to work together. The Sasuke thing seemed very much like a set-up to me.

      Madara used only the ribcage of his Susano'o just this last chapter (and it was used effectively and efficiently), so that is not a power unique to Sasuke. Along those lines, I'd be very surprised if he is unable to form armor on his Susano'o. It's a good theory but I think his is two-faced a) because of Izuna and b) because of his evil, as it symbolizes a more malevolent creature in Japanese mythology.

      the difference between them and Sasuke is that Sasuke is the greater genius. his tactics, strategies, and intelligence have far overwhelmed even his Uchiha brethren and people like Shikamaru.

      I REALLY disagree with this entire statement. It's undeniable that Itachi is far more intelligent than Sasuke is, and if Tobi is definitely Madara (which I think), then Madara is as well. As for tactics and strategies, that's all up for debate and I'm not big on battledome stuff. I do like Sasuke and he is one of my favorites, but I just can't agree with this.

      In terms of experience, I was comparing him to Madara and Itachi. He DEFINITELY lacks experience compared to Madara (most people do), and to a lesser degree to Itachi. Naruto is a joke and I have no real interest in bringing him into the discussion. tl;;dr I do agree with a lot of what you say. It just seems that you're overlooking some clear manga facts to make Sasuke above Madara and Itachi and you really have to be careful of that, not only when you talk to people who dislike him, but when you talk to people who LIKE him, too. Don't mean to come down hard, but I like all 3 Uchiha and it's frustrating for me when people constantly pit them against one another, especially when they overlook things. :p
    10. butcher50
      Kishi's nerfing Madara's EMS Susanoo (and other related powers) because of Sasuke's.
    11. PikaCheeka
      Wipe out the KAGES, not the countries. You'd need EMS to take down 80,000 fodder due to limitations and blindness. :lmao

      But really, I don't think Sasuke could have wiped the floor with the Kages if his MS was as perfected as it was against Danzou. If he had Tsukiyomi at all there, which is incessantly up for debate, it was extremely weak, and IMO he would need that. Sasuke isn't experienced enough to take on five extremely powerful enemies at once without incapacitating at least two, if not three, of them via genjutsu.

      Could/can Madara? Yes. Itachi? Yes. Sasuke doesn't have the experience or temperament to pull something like that off yet though. It isn't just a matter of strength. Fighting five enemies at once takes a lot more than just strength. If it was a gambit and he fought them one at a time, he could probably do it though.
    12. butcher50
      Madara shows exactly why the Supremacy of house Uchiha (Harkonnen) is the only consideration :hmpf
    13. PikaCheeka
      :rotfl His mental and emotional states factored heavily into Sasuke's performance, as well. Both Itachi and Madara are extremely level-headed (IMO, this bodes very well for Madara) You also have to consider that Madara has had far more battle experience, not just with MS/EMS, but as a whole.
    14. Googleplex
      I'm not sure about clearly above Nagato as Nagato's power was never really shown, always cut short. lol
      But I believe Madara's is quite high, a 5 as I believe he's the epitome of the Uchiha. :p
      Though in terms of the Kimi and Sarutobi analogy, I'd normally take Kimi for the Itachi thing as they both were bound by illness whereas Sarutobi's age was clearly linked to his stamina.

      Having said that I believe the rankings should be compared per se, but it could give us an indicator on where a shinobi's strengths are such as Itachi whose weakest part his is stamina -> its consistent with his fighting style, sparing use of the MS - only when needed - and he has jutsu which aren't intensely draining such as how the Karasu Bunshin is outwardly described to be like the Kage Bunshin, but only needs less chakra.

      Nagato seems to be shaky ground, imo, because Madara seems confident that he was a Rikudou- but probably from the Uzumaki side.
      Maybe genetically he was lucky akin to how Hashirama was the genetically lucky one from the Senju?
      Though a mini-theory I had on why Nagato couldn't turn off his Rinnegan could be due to him being more on the Senju side: the Uchiha side had eyes they could freely switch with hence an Uchiha who becomes a Rikudou could freely switch on and off their Rinnegan whilst a Senju have a set of eyes they were stuck with hence you can argue Nagato couldn't switch off his eyes as his side of the blood (albeit distantly related; Uzumaki) never had the ability to switch eyes, so to speak.

      Sort of like a slight difference with an Uchiha and Senju who become Rikudous, I'd say.
    15. Googleplex
      Yeah, true.
      Though, I'm unsure if Itachi's disease would affect his stamina as Kimimmaro managed to attain a 4.5 in stamina in spite of being ill.

      But I believe the forum over exaggerate the limits of Itachi's stamina, expecting him to fall down flat out of stamina after a couple of Katon.
      Perhaps his illness was actually causing chakra moves to be more taxing than they really were?
    16. butcher50
      Naruto, Gaara, Onoki, Temari, Others and their Alliance Forces are irrelevant.

      the Supremacy of House Uchiha is the only consideration :hmpf
    17. Ezekial
      LOL I did, but they piss me off so much
    18. Googleplex
      Ohhhh, I didn't notice that. :O

      Makes you wonder about Itachi. :hmm
    19. BlinkST
      We'll see. For now, I don't see any evidence to substantiate that the Rinnegan itself is involved in the current jutsu.
    20. BlinkST
      That doesn't really explain the use of Susanoo or the 3 handseals. He could have just done that with Shurado.
    21. Googleplex
      Good theory. :D

      Though I disagree with the naturally high chakra capacity part. Although Susano'o amplifying the attacks is very possible seeing as Karin noted that the quality of one's chakra changes with Susano'o. :hmm
      Arguably this means the jutsu will be amped as you said. :gar

      Darn, need to spread before I rep you again :(
    22. BlinkST
      That was an actual meteor from space, not Chibaku Tensei. I don't think the Rinnegan had anything to do with it.
    23. PikaCheeka
      Yes and no. I still don't buy the Obito parts. I agree they're both Madara, but the Obito part has and always will strike me as garbage, even if Kishi writes it. I'll reply in detail though later. I have the FC to catch up on.
    24. hellonoam
      I just read your Madara thread and I want you to know that I 100% agree. People thought that we are idiots but whose laughing now?
      Btw is it alright if I put a link to your thread in my sig?
    25. Xerces
      Yeah I saw the thread right after I finished reading the chapter. There are few holes, if any, in your theory and it pretty much summarizes my thoughts exactly. I even think the Obito part is plausible.

      Madara is about to tear shit up. It will be glorious :noworries
    26. Googleplex
      I'm shaky on the Obito thing, but given the myth of Kato Danzo (whose also known as Tobi): its possible.
      Though the downside to using this argument is that people can use it to suggest that Tobi isn't Madara; I don't think that can be done given the fact everyone who knows what's behind the mask (Kisame, Nagato, Konan and Kabuto) have all called him Madara.
    27. Googleplex
      I like it. :gar

      Better than most people, by far, who're following the "he can't be Madara if Madara is revived". =/

      IMO Muu is an allusion to Madara, so you're likely right in saying that Madara performed some spiritual split: but it makes you wonder why the risk was so high seeing as Madara seemed to have lost a lot of power in the process.:hmm
    28. Daylight
      Stupid neg is stupid.

      I called the activating Susano'o before Kirin feat dubious because he could easily have simply been reacting to Sasuke's hand dropping down. We'll never know.
    29. BlinkST
      Guess you'll have to change your sig :p
    30. Masato
      thanks for the rep :D and thanks for the compliment!:)
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    Univ Student
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