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2nd Size comparison Ten Tails/Various Perfect Susano'o/100% Kurama/Naruto's Biju Mode/Boss Summons

Subtle

Well-Known Member
I don't even know what you're saying here. When the author only has to focus on drawing the diamond of PS and nothing else, he's free to draw it as big as it actually is. There's limited page space. If the author has to draw PS, Kurama and the Mokujin in full scale while also showing a clear view of Hashirama & Madara on these constructs, there's bound to be inconsistencies in size.

What I am saying is, there will always be inconsistency in certain illustrations, I'll give you an example

I provided illustrations of Madara in his initial display of Perfect Susano'o,

See how the author depicted Madara in his diamond - , The DIamond looks much smaller yet the earlier posted links show the consistency of the Diamond with Madara inside.
 

MHA massive fan

Well-Known Member
Madara's Perfect Susano'o=100% Kurama>50% Kurama=Sasuke's Perfect Susano'o

Naruto's BM not being the same size as Kurama makes no sense. BM is just releasing your Biju. The same avatar got sealed inside the Gedo Mazo. The avatar is just Kurama. Gamabunta is shorter than Kurama's head with his ears taken into account.

Madara is miniscule inside the diamond of Majestic Attire.


There are panels where there was clearly much more attention to detail given over scale. Those are the ones that I use. It requires discretion to know which panels not to use where scale isn't the primary focus.
Ok
Then how do you resolve bunta atop 100% kurama? Bunta wasn’t several dozen times smaller
That alone craps on the thread
 

Perfect Susano

Well-Known Member
You're still saying the same thing.. there's no frs without the rasengan either, but that does not mean the rasengan itself cannot be enlarged.. so again that example does not favour your argument at all.
I don't know why you're bringing up Rasenshuriken. Hashirama isn't adding new elements to his Mokuton when he upgrades the Wood Dragon to the Wood Human. From Wood Dragon to Wood Human to Shinsuusenju, the only difference is more chakra, just like Naruto's normal Rasengan variants. That's where the comparison comes from. If Hashirama concentrates his full power on a Wood Human it will become Shinsuusenju. If Naruto concentrates his full power on a Rasengan, it will become a different jutsu entirely, Chou Odama Rasengan.
The mere fact that full kurama doesn't make gamabunta look like a rat which you yourself have pointed out he does in comparison to PS, should suffice as proof that kurama is nowhere near edo madara's PS in size..
Gamabunta is as big as Kurama's head with ears included. I'll just scale it directly so this isn't a constant talking point.
Like are we to also assume spiral zetsu's shinsusenju is the same size as hashirama's because "fixed size"?
Not to mention your arguments contradict each other as both hashirama and madara used wood dragon on full and 50% kurama respectively so if the wood dragon also has a fixed size as you say, it shouldn't have been comparable to both those kuramas.
Though that argument itself is silly as we do know wood dragon can be made to vary in size ranging from biju size, to smaller ones more comparable to human size:

So your whole fixed size notion is non existent
Nothing implies that Zetsu's Buddha is even the same jutsu as Hashirama's. It's his own personal construct and has a different design to Hashirama's Buddha. You're talking as if every scan is 100% consistent, I am not. Also the Wood Dragon used on Kurama & Madara are clearly different Wood Dragons.

The Wood Dragon on the Mokujin during the War arc is comparable to Madara's V3 Susano'o, which makes it Biju sized the same as it was when used by Edo Madara. Yet you're claiming that the Mokujin used there is the biggest one for some reason. The Wood Dragon has a lot of length. It's long enough to wrap around both 50% & 100% Kurama.
 

Speedyamell

If you don't like fax, you can't like me ;)
Also the Wood Dragon used on Kurama & Madara are clearly different Wood Dragons.
Oh wow:mjlol
You would rather say this shit than concede..? Like damn..

First it was "wood dragon has fixed size" now it's "welp those are clearly different wood dragons"... well damn then the mokujin in the war is a clearly different one as well:mjlol

The Wood Dragon has a lot of length. It's long enough to wrap around both 50% & 100% Kurama.
It's not just comparable in terms of length.. but clearly you've decided to stop making sense
 

Perfect Susano

Well-Known Member
Oh wow:mjlol
You would rather say this shit than concede..? Like damn..

First it was "wood dragon has fixed size" now it's "welp those are clearly different wood dragons"... well damn then the mokujin in the war is a clearly different one as well:mjlol
The Wood Dragons have different designs so yeah they're different. The Mokujin used during VOTE and during the war do not.
It's not just comparable in terms of length.. but clearly you've decided to stop making sense
It isn't comparable in width. And once again, 100% consistency isn't expected out of every scan.
 

Perfect Susano

Well-Known Member
What I am saying is, there will always be inconsistency in certain illustrations, I'll give you an example

I provided illustrations of Madara in his initial display of Perfect Susano'o,

See how the author depicted Madara in his diamond - , The DIamond looks much smaller yet the earlier posted links show the consistency of the Diamond with Madara inside.
How much space is on the page and what is on the page are also factors in determining the actual scale of something. It's not only looking at how something looks in a few panels.
Ok
Then how do you resolve bunta atop 100% kurama? Bunta wasn’t several dozen times smaller
That alone craps on the thread

 

Perfect Susano

Well-Known Member
Even we go off of this, you do realise it's still nowhere near the difference between boss summon and PS right??
It's comparable enough to the examples in my final scaling. There's an acceptable margin of error if any.
:skully
Check the next scan bud
Who on earth draws lines on a scan
:giogio
There isn't anything on the next scan that refutes what I posted. You asked how my scaling reconciled Gamabunta's size compared to Kurama. I gave an answer scaling from the scans themself.
 

Speedyamell

If you don't like fax, you can't like me ;)
It's comparable enough to the examples in my final scaling. There's an acceptable margin of error if any.
Your final scaling is shit.
If this is supposed to be PS compared to the deity gates:
And these are boss summon compared to the gates:
Then how tf does bunta end up being 1/3 of PS like he is with kurama in your scaling??
How don't you see how that doesn't make sense
 

Perfect Susano

Well-Known Member
Your final scaling is shit.
If this is supposed to be PS compared to the deity gates:
And these are boss summon compared to the gates:
Then how tf does bunta end up being 1/3 of PS like he is with kurama in your scaling??
How don't you see how that doesn't make sense
Every scan isn't 100% consistent. I don't know why you keep making me repeat this. PS & the Mokujin are taller than the God Gates, which are taller than Biju and that's really all that was gleamed from those panels. It seems that you didn't go over my scaling in it's entirety.
Spoiler:



This is how big a Biju is compared to Ten Tails. PS cannot surpass this and it does not based on Asura/Indra's construct sizes. It matches it. Even if you don't like the idea of using Indra/Asura, the Bijudama Tree comparison still holds.

You're the one that said PS couldn't be seen clearly in the scan so why don't you scale exactly how tall PS is compared to those God Gates since it's such an extreme issue for you?
 

MHA massive fan

Well-Known Member
It's comparable enough to the examples in my final scaling. There's an acceptable margin of error if any.

There isn't anything on the next scan that refutes what I posted. You asked how my scaling reconciled Gamabunta's size compared to Kurama. I gave an answer scaling from the scans themself.
Sadly there is
It’s stupid to think bunta is only as big as his top half yet he could hold kyuubi down at all. Sorry but if a cat dropped on your head are we saying that’s enough to stop you from getting straight back up?
 

ZmkSc

Well-Known Member
I don't think 100% kuarma is much bigger than BM avatar and 16 years later 50% kuarma or biju. they are comparable in size. 100% kuarma is probably a bit more thick than others. it doesn't even make sense that sealing half of kuarma would make it get drastically smaller. Also when Bunta gets on Kuarma's back, we can clearly estimate that they are comparable in size. actually 50% kuarma also appears to be thinner than other biju in multiple panels as i remember. Hashirama's Buddha is comparable to Juubi in scale or bigger with his 1000 arms. Edo Madara's PS is where things start to not make much sense as multiple evidence points towards it , and SM wood golem, being much bigger than Biju and more comparable to Juubi. the iffy part is that Only Madara's PS is shown to be very big while Sssuke's and Kakashi's are clearly comparable to Biju in size which also unexplainable and no clue how that translates to their actual strength and durability.
 

Perfect Susano

Well-Known Member
Sadly there is
It’s stupid to think bunta is only as big as his top half yet he could hold kyuubi down at all. Sorry but if a cat dropped on your head are we saying that’s enough to stop you from getting straight back up?
You should know why this is a ridiculous comparison.
I don't think 100% kuarma is much bigger than BM avatar and 16 years later 50% kuarma or biju. they are comparable in size. 100% kuarma is probably a bit more thick than others. it doesn't even make sense that sealing half of kuarma would make it get drastically smaller. Also when Bunta gets on Kuarma's back, we can clearly estimate that they are comparable in size. actually 50% kuarma also appears to be thinner than other biju in multiple panels as i remember. Hashirama's Buddha is comparable to Juubi in scale or bigger with his 1000 arms. Edo Madara's PS is where things start to not make much sense as multiple evidence points towards it , and SM wood golem, being much bigger than Biju and more comparable to Juubi. the iffy part is that Only Madara's PS is shown to be very big while Sssuke's and Kakashi's are clearly comparable to Biju in size which also unexplainable and no clue how that translates to their actual strength and durability.
I don't see how that could be the case with 50% Kurama's body being able to fit in 100% Kurama's paw print. Kurama being split wasn't a simple case of chakra being taken away. His existence was split in half.

Madara & likely Indra has a different type of Perfect Susano'o than Sasuke & Kakashi. One of the differences is the wings. The differing design of the wings would suggest that Sasuke & Kakashi's variant are a smaller yet more agile variant. Madara's can still fly but the wings resemble extra arms more often than not and this more bulky design is a by product of it being bigger. Madara's Perfect Susano'o is more durable and physically powerful. Sasuke & Kakashi's are faster & more agile.
 

MHA massive fan

Well-Known Member
You should know why this is a ridiculous comparison.
Actually it isn’t you have just claimed bunta is only as big as kurama face. Also 50% kurama couldn’t fit into 100% kurama paw print this is quite inaccurate
I don't see how that could be the case with 50% Kurama's body being able to fit in 100% Kurama's paw print. Kurama being split wasn't a simple case of chakra being taken away. His existence was split in half.

Madara & likely Indra has a different type of Perfect Susano'o than Sasuke & Kakashi. One of the differences is the wings. The differing design of the wings would suggest that Sasuke & Kakashi's variant are a smaller yet more agile variant. Madara's can still fly but the wings resemble extra arms more often than not and this more bulky design is a by product of it being bigger. Madara's Perfect Susano'o is more durable and physically powerful. Sasuke & Kakashi's are faster & more agile.
Not aimed at me
 

Perfect Susano

Well-Known Member
Actually it isn’t you have just claimed bunta is only as big as kurama face. Also 50% kurama couldn’t fit into 100% kurama paw print this is quite inaccurate

Not aimed at me
Imagine a bowling ball being dropped on your back from 100 feet in the air. That's a more accurate comparison. In the OP, I establish that 50% Kurama's body width is smaller than the length of the paw print. In other words 100% Kurama can pick up 50% Kurama in it's hand.
 

MHA massive fan

Well-Known Member
Imagine a bowling ball being dropped on your back from 100 feet in the air. That's a more accurate comparison. In the OP, I establish that 50% Kurama's body width is smaller than the length of the paw print. In other words 100% Kurama can pick up 50% Kurama in it's hand.
:wink
It’s a funny analysis all this considering the source
You know you looking at scans from the same author who claims Yamata is larger than manda
Just saying
:oldshrug
 

Subtle

Well-Known Member
How much space is on the page and what is on the page are also factors in determining the actual scale of something. It's not only looking at how something looks in a few panels.


Not necessarily as the author can be inconsistent, The example I gave you is just one (including the one you posted), picking a single panel where an illustration is not matched by other panels is inconsistent.
 

Azula

I think you are making a mistake when you bring in Juubi bomb because they are inconsistent and it is difficult to gauge their size relative to Juubi. They can also vary in size between different uses.

100% Kurama is bigger than other bijuus but the difference isn't as much as you are saying.

If Gamabunta was way smaller than Kurama he will not be able to hold him down. Gamabunta is at best half the size of 100% Kurama.

Mokujin is a bit smaller than Kurama and PS. PS is as tall as 100% Kurama standing on it's rear legs and if you take Kurama's 9 tails into account he is bigger than PS.
 

Mawt

Well-Known Member
People writing lengthy essays on why their favorite construct is bigger than everything else.

This is why I love the NBD. :mjgrin
 

Perfect Susano

Well-Known Member
Not necessarily as the author can be inconsistent, The example I gave you is just one (including the one you posted), picking a single panel where an illustration is not matched by other panels is inconsistent.
That doesn't refute what I said. There are multiple factors at play to determine true size scaling. Whether something looks the same in multiple panels is a factor but not the only factor.
I think you are making a mistake when you bring in Juubi bomb because they are inconsistent and it is difficult to gauge their size relative to Juubi. They can also vary in size between different uses.

100% Kurama is bigger than other bijuus but the difference isn't as much as you are saying.

If Gamabunta was way smaller than Kurama he will not be able to hold him down. Gamabunta is at best half the size of 100% Kurama.

Mokujin is a bit smaller than Kurama and PS. PS is as tall as 100% Kurama standing on it's rear legs and if you take Kurama's 9 tails into account he is bigger than PS.
The Bijudama on the tree are the same ones that Ten Tails was using except there were more. There's no implication of anything else. There's also a scan of Obito summoning the Ten Tails right next to the tree. And although it's laying down, it's easy to tell that both the Ten Tails & the tree are clearly in the same range of size.


I don't know how you'd define this size difference then. Going by this 100% Kurama would be able to pick up it's 50% counterpart like Shinsuusenju had picked it up.


Without Food Cart Destroyer, Gamabunta can't do anything to Kurama. And even with that Gamabunta can't hold it down for any significant amount of time.
 
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Perfect Susano

Well-Known Member
This is a revised high ball scaling that gives more leeway to the size of PS compared to Biju/Boss Summons.


The argument from earlier in the thread about PS compared to God Gates doesn't hold though since Ten Tails isn't even big enough to make the Gates look like dots.


Once again, there's a level of discretion required to know which panels to use. The scan with PS and the Gates is only useful for showing that PS is bigger than the Gates but not much else. There is too much on the page and it's from an extremely high birds eye view. When the author has to make everything tiny in order to show everything inconsistencies become more common.
 
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blk

Well-Known Member
Kishi's sizes have too many inconsistencies.

PSs imo are supposed to be the same size more or less.
 

Perfect Susano

Well-Known Member
Kishi's sizes have too many inconsistencies.

PSs imo are supposed to be the same size more or less.
It would appear that he made 2 different variants of PS. A bigger version with arm-like wings and a smaller one with a large wingspan. It would fit since the only PS that have been portrayed as huge are Madara & Indra's. Sasuke & Kakashi seem to have a different variant.
 

Subtle

Well-Known Member
That doesn't refute what I said. There are multiple factors at play to determine true size scaling. Whether something looks the same in multiple panels is a factor but not the only factor.
You misunderstand, you chose to use an inconsistent panel to show Edo Madara and Iso Susano'o constructs are the same size or Edo Madara PS is the same as Full Kurama in size, I showed you that your scan is inconsistent using another example of how the author portrays the indvidual in the diamond from consistent scaling which you choose to deny, it's quite simple.

I'll show you another, When Sasuke is directing chakra into his construct, look how much bigger his diamond becomes in comparison to him but other panels suggest the diamond is not that much bigger.

Absorbing Biju chakra

Top Left - the diamond isn't much bigger
 

Perfect Susano

Well-Known Member
You misunderstand, you chose to use an inconsistent panel to show Edo Madara and Iso Susano'o constructs are the same size or Edo Madara PS is the same as Full Kurama in size, I showed you that your scan is inconsistent using another example of how the author portrays the indvidual in the diamond from consistent scaling which you choose to deny, it's quite simple.

I'll show you another, When Sasuke is directing chakra into his construct, look how much bigger his diamond becomes in comparison to him but other panels suggest the diamond is not that much bigger.

Absorbing Biju chakra

Top Left - the diamond isn't much bigger
The 2nd scan would be more accurate. Less details the author has to draw, therefore the details that are on the page which would be specifically Sasuke and the diamond on his Susano'o are given more attention. No different than the scan I posted of Madara in his Iso. That line of reasoning is the basis of me saying that the scan I posted of Madara's Iso was the correct scaling.

Your argument is that whatever something looks like in the most amount of panels is how big it is. I'm saying that this is a factor, but not the only factor.
 

Subtle

Well-Known Member
The 2nd scan would be more accurate. Less details the author has to draw, therefore the details that are on the page which would be specifically Sasuke and the diamond on his Susano'o are given more attention. No different than the scan I posted of Madara in his Iso. That line of reasoning is the basis of me saying that the scan I posted of Madara's Iso was the correct scaling.

Your argument is that whatever something looks like in the most amount of panels is how big it is. I'm saying that this is a factor, but not the only factor.
I don't disagree entirely, you said the second panel is more accurate but that panel itself is more consistent compared to other illustrations as the first scan I posted does not match when compared to others..

It's the same when using a single panel closely drawn, the one you posted. If the author showed that consistency and there were few more panels (to compare) I woudn't disagree but the author kept the consistency and shows the diamond (Iso Susano'o) much smaller compared to Edo Madara's construct.

A single inconsistent panel should not dictate the size of the diamond rather consistent scaling should with more panels to compare as if this was the case anyone could choose any panel to make an argument.

This is all i'm trying to say.
 
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