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A Weak Pulse

Discussion in 'Konoha Library Archives' started by Muk, Oct 14, 2006.

  1. Muk Let's play a game, Ophelia

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    A lot of people call the weak pulse that Asuma has at 327 a plot no jutsu or better said a plot hole.

    But I do believe that it is actually explainable with real world terms with some assumptions.

    Hidan's technique returns the pain and damage taken to his cursed victim, but in 327 Kishi doesn't show us that Asuma's chest is impailed or has so to speak a hole in his chest. Neither did Kishi show us a blood wound when Hidan pierced his left leg or ate his scythe in his stomach. The more so I am in the believe that Hidan's damage and pain are purely internal to his victim.

    If that is the case then have a weak pulse is quite plausible. Even if the heart actually did receive a hole through Hidan's technique it is internal, thus blood is not going to fountain out of the body like an open firehose or firehydrant, since it is contained within his body. The heart, a muscle, will continue to try and pump blood, even if it has such a severe injury/hole. Thus it is completely possible for shika to find a weak pulse. Also he checked on Asuma almost immediately after Asuma received that injury (1 minute or less), so not too much blood pressure could have been lost due to that internal injury, yet.

    So calling the weak pulse a plot hole is plausible, but I think it is also believable to look at it as a fatal internal injury, that has not taken its full effect yet.

    Wether you decide to stay by the fact that it is an unbelievable fact or not, is still up to you, but I hope I opened your eye to possible ways of reducing the abundan shouts for "plot no jutsu."
     
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  2. Kagutsuchi In your milk, toxifying you.

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    You're saying that if the heart has a hole through it, it still beats?
     
  3. Snakety69 Ding! Check Please

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    How the fuck can a weak pulse be considered a plot hole? Plus, I don't think Hidan stabbed himself throught the heart.

    People can get hit with a chainsaw and still have a pulse. Asuma having a weak pulse was a decision made by Kishi to have either of these 2 scenarios:

    1. Asuma just barely lives.

    2. Asuma lives long enough to say something and THEN dies, making it more dramatic and sad.

    Either will give Naruto and the others plenty more drive to get stronger and kill Akatsuki.
     
  4. Arachnia Manchester United Fan

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    how can it pump blood with a hole in it???did u see the scythe hidan stabbed in himself???the internal injuries are not only on the heart...his inisides should be all torn apart...
     
  5. Muk Let's play a game, Ophelia

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    Well a heart doesn't stop beating just because it will have a hole in it. It is a muscle that acts on impulse and signals indepent of your conscious brain. So as long as your brain sends signals to the heart it will continue to beat, whether it has a hole in it or not. Of course it may not be a beat to your liking, maybe an irregular beat or a weak beat, but it will try to keep beating as long as it can. That is why a chicken runs around like crazy even if you cut of its head. Electrical signals are still being processed by the muscles.

    Well the blood is not going to fountain out, as I already said. So you aren't going to see blood gushing out like when hidan lost his head. Since it is inside, it can be argued, the blood will be contained within the tissues and the blood pressure is not going to drop as fast as it was the case with Hidan's flying head.
    Also from what Kishi illustrated, Asuma only spitt out an amount of blood from his mouth when Hidan did his finishing move. Same was when his stomach was impaled with his scythe. I believe the damage is only to the organs that are actually impaled and the tissue surrounding it may be mostly intact. Its a semi closed eviroment so the blood doesn't fountain out like a water fountain.

    Well people are asking either for blood or calling it plot no jutsu, I gave it the actual literal term instead of plot no jutsu. <-- I hate that term and prefer to actually define it.
     
  6. Arrow of God Itachi's sex slave

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    sooner or later, so much blood will be spilt that there will not be enough to go to all his body parts, and so he will die. That's what happens when your heart is punctured.
     
  7. The Times 51% Evil

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    ...The reason you didn't see any holes was because it was underneath his clothes...if it was internal, the Koton jutsu he used wouldn't have burnt and make marks on his own skin. All the damage is actual phyically recieved. End topic.
     
  8. Production hi

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    Asuma will die or live on a artifical(sp) heart.
    Oh wait, they don`t have those.

    And who ever said the impact was a plot hole? Good point though.
     
  9. Muk Let's play a game, Ophelia

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    And until then you will find a weak pulse. Whether he is dying or not isn't the point of this thread. The point is wether or not you can call the weak pulse something other then plot no jutsu (for the lazy ones) or a plot hole specificly.

    The mortal would might be considered a plot hole, since a lot of people want to see blood or particularly death and for them Asuma not dying at the end of 327 is a plot hole.

    True, Katon was a jutsu that resulted in Asuma receiving extrenal burn marks. But the 3 times Hidan punctured himself, Asuma didn't show any external wounds. Wether it is the result that indeed the clothing hiding the wound or not, is debatable.
    But sure is one thing, if they were truely wounds that were both internal and external, big blood stains should have ermerged from Asuma's left leg and the stomach area if not even where his heart was. Two possibilities, either Kishi is to lazy to draw them out, or he decided to make them count as internal injuries only. There might be other possibilities, but I think Kishi definetly wants to show us that those 3 wounds, well actually only the last 2 were definetly internal wounds. Why else should Asuma be spitting blood twice after Hidan impaled himself in the stomach and heart area. Its a typical cliche if you are spitting blood out of your mouth, you have an internal wound, not external.
     
  10. The Times 51% Evil

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    It isn't really debateable. Hidan stabbed his chest, so the wound will appear on asuma's chest, not his clothes.
    Asuma's leg was bleeding in chapter 324, on page 6. meaning that there was a wound there that was bleeding.
    The damage caused by Hidan stabbing himself caused internal wounds, yes. Hidan also had internal wounds. that's what happens when you get stabbed...
     
  11. Muk Let's play a game, Ophelia

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    Well I wasn't really debating wether or not the wound was on his clothing, but it is a fact that blood should be gushing out of those big wounds. I guess Kishi is just lazy to draw the blood stains on Asuma's clothing. But even then the clothing do apply some pressure to the puncture wound Asuma received, even if its is so very little pressure.

    Still the headless chicken argument is holding, though Asuma isn't headless.

    And it isn't the article of clothing that is an argument any more. It is wether you can explain the weak pulse besides plot hole. With Kishi being lazy to draw fountain of blood or huges stains of blood on Asuma's clothing, it is still possible to that you could find a weak pulse, even with those external wounds. Headless chicken running around.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2006
  12. I Я Reckless! shoot 'em dead

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    Well, when Hidan does the jutsu, the enemy's body recieves the damage, not the articles of clothing around it
     
  13. tanukibeast bijuuslayer

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    yes, they do have those. remember they have all the technology that we do except for weapons.
     
  14. Kaitlyn Faeries>All

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    ummmmmmmmm....I took a look at the first page of 327 again, and blood is pouring down from underneath Asuma's vest, and onto his sash......he is SO bleeding...


    EDIT: Here be the image!
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2006
  15. Black Swan Active Member

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    Asuma is most likely dead, suffering a direct wound to ur heart usually spells death. The only thing that could save him is some major PNJ, but that would create a plot hole b/c tsunade could not even save dan who seemed to suffer similar injuries to asuma.
     
  16. dkpunk27 Chaos Bringer

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    If his heart was pierced then he would be dead. If you want a real world scenario then go back a short time ago to steve irwin. The medical guy I saw explain how a punctured heart would kill you is that the blood would poor out into the chest cavity around the heart and after not to long there would be enough there that there wouldn't be any room for the heart to beat so it stops and you die.
     
  17. rorykage Too Cool for Ninja School

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    I don't think anyone can for sure what exactly it is that Hidan's jutsu did to Asuma at the end of 327. If I remember correctly, Asuma says something like "that won't work on me again" and Hidan says "Idiot, this one's not the same"

    If it's not the same jutsu as before, then who knows what little loopholes it has?
     
  18. MasamuneX7 Akatsuki Overlord

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    Reread the chapters again. You can clearly see Asuma's leg dripping blood on the ground when Hidan stabs himself in the thigh. In this week's chapter (don't know how you managed to miss it), you can clearly see blood flowing out under Asuma's vest. Not just internal, but external as well.
     
  19. Muk Let's play a game, Ophelia

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    Good enough for me. So Shika just happened to find his pulse before all his chest cavity was completely filled with blood or completely ran out of the hole hidan made in asuma's chest, thus the weak pulse.

    Ohh and thanks for the pic. I think i missed those details on the lq scan.
     
  20. Thorn Fully Awesome

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    Well, I think that Asuma's body would be affected, so even if a hole magically appeared a-la Hidan, you would only be able to see the blood stain because it wouldn't effect the clothes.
     
  21. Shinnou Genkaku It must be true if I say it

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    Asuma having a slight heartbeat is just part of the bullshit I have come to realize that Kishi will serve on a plate and call it a plot
     
  22. Shishi-O Oda Is God

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    i don't think this will be your typical fight almost die, zen, powwie, asuma recovered.

    i think this will be the first deathbed scene in naruto, there will be alot of crying.
     
  23. Tyrannos Living a Life

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    Definitely.

    Asuma will say he loves Kurenai in the open for once, and give Shikamaru some words of encouragement and telling him to be strong. And if Naruto shows up, I could expect him to say something to him as well. Probably revealing Naruto being the "king" since he is the next Hokage (and lets not forget how the Yondaime had the Jounins be Naruto's protectors).

    Once Asuma passes on, Naruto would be the one taking it the hardest, even more so than Kurenai and Shikamaru. Remember Naruto takes it really personal of people getting hurt by Akatsuki because of them being after him. This surely will cause Naruto to go into a rage and force him into non-stop training until the Kaze Rasengan is mastered or near mastered.
     
  24. Kinjishi Well-Known Member

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    I pretty much agree with almost everything. you have an explanation here, but i think its unnecessary. Kishi wont build up a character like he did asuma, to have him die needlessly like that. I also hate the rants of "plot no jutsu". its a lame excuse for everything that someone thinks is wrong with the manga. the only thing wrong is the whole concept of plot no jutsu.
     
  25. CrazyMoronX Old Man

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    Asuma not dying is just another slap in the face to everyone who reads the manga.
     
  26. Sypher Red Dawn

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    The wounds seem external to me, just under the clothing. If you notice he's bleeding externally from the scythe wound to the gut. It's dripping down from underneath his flak jacket.



    The OP is correct though. A heart will still continue to beat, even if injured. Due to these injuries however, it may have an insufficient or irregular heartbeat, which is not strong enough to sustain the body for long at all.

    It's my hope that Asuma dies though. It'd be good for plot developement. He'll probably live just long enough to tell Kakashi whatever important thing he was going to tell him. Tell people he loves Kurenai, maybe something to Naruto/Shikamaru, then kick the bucket.
     
  27. blazingshadow True Wind Rune

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    what makes you say that? they have TVs, VCRs, fridges, cranes, bluetooth comunicators, the means for genetic observation and manipulation and much more. the only 2 things they don't have are cars and guns
     
  28. Lu Bu Dynasty Warrior

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    The same Shikamaru that seems to be having a nervous breakdown and Asuma isn't even dead yet? Nobody will take Asuma's death harder than Shikamaru. He might even crack. Naruto might even up having to use his Jesus powers to help Shikamaru.

    Naruto barely knows Asuma. There is no reason Kishimoto can justify him going into a rage over someone like Asuma. He is not his sensei.
     
  29. Sypher Red Dawn

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    Naruto got very emotional when Haku died. He certainly knows Asuma better than Haku. Naruto goes into a rage over just about anyone, I could see him being very pissed about Asuma.
     
  30. Sariachan shadowy_blue no neechan

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    The point is that what the injuries Hidan receives on himself haven't the exact same effect on the vistim of his ritual... it should be clear since Jugito, when she was barely alive and Hidan was dead (for just a moment, of course).
     
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