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ABC Logic Attempt

Siskebabas

Well-Known Member
... lol

The conclusion is incorrect, obviously.

But one who uses ABC logic and believes in it could use that reasoning. I am trying to show why using ABC logic is terrible
I still dont understand where problem is, only example i could think of, were to be discussion of characters in complete vacuum, with no feats or hype where its impossible to come to any conclusion because we dont know that they are capable off.
Go see one piece forums they discuss characters in abc fashion all the time and all they have is few words from author
 

Shazam

⚡⚡⚡
I still dont understand where problem is, only example i could think of, were to be discussion of characters in complete vacuum, with no feats or hype where its impossible to come to any conclusion because we dont know that they are capable off.
Go see one piece forums they discuss characters in abc fashion all the time and all they have is few words from author

DBZ is where ABC logic would work.

Naruto we have multiple factors. Like speed, strength, element advantages, jutsu to counter.

So just because one character can beat you doesn't mean the next one will even if they beat someone you lost too.

And so abc logic in of itself doesn't do justice to explain something g
 

DiscoZoro20

Ōka Shichibukai
Post me ranking a tier list based on ABC logic. Or you can take yourself out

Lmaaao try Harder. Everyone in this Forum is already laughing at your embarrassing attempts to Hype Jiraiya by discrediting a perfectly logical deduction method with embarrassing strawman arguments. Jiraiya is superior to Kakashi because he is Hokage while Kakashi is jonin which is totally not a disguised "A>B" Amirite? You are just mad that people do not swallow your Shitty attempts to pretend that A>B Exists As a standalone variable comparison that can somehow not be applied to another additional variable to extend the chain of variables in one formula. If Kakashi is jonin and Jiraiya is Hokage then that means the whole Narutoverse applies A>B>C logic because these ranks Itself are based on strength and there are a Ton of them. If C is a chunin, B a jonin and A a kage then that is nothing else then a hidden, rephrased way of using ABC-logic. You can try sidestep this all you want but we all know your logic is shit in that regard.
 

Siskebabas

Well-Known Member
DBZ is where ABC logic would work.

Naruto we have multiple factors. Like speed, strength, element advantages, jutsu to counter.

So just because one character can beat you doesn't mean the next one will even if they beat someone you lost too.

And so abc logic in of itself doesn't do justice to explain something g
Naruto is not nearly tactical enough where your listed examples play that of big role. In naruto you can brute force most of characters regardless of what jutsus they have.
Lets take for example hxh which has way more complicated system and characters are way smarter and so on, we have multiples statements and battle between two opponents is battle between nen, but this shit is again completely invalidated by Nero or king who stomp you regardless of what abilities you have even there abc works
 

Shazam

⚡⚡⚡
Naruto is not nearly tactical enough where your listed examples play that of big role. In naruto you can brute force most of characters regardless of what jutsus they have.
Lets take for example hxh which has way more complicated system and characters are way smarter and so on, we have multiples statements and battle between two opponents is battle between nen, but this shit is again completely invalidated by Nero or king who stomp you regardless of what abilities you have even there abc works

This only changes when there is a massive gap between two characters from the beginning. If you have character who is relatively close in the grand scheme of things, things like counters, speed, intelligence, intel itself, location and so on plays a big role
 

Shazam

⚡⚡⚡
Lmaaao try Harder. Everyone in this Forum is already laughing at your embarrassing attempts to Hype Jiraiya by discrediting a perfectly logical deduction method with embarrassing strawman arguments. Jiraiya is superior to Kakashi because he is Hokage while Kakashi is jonin which is totally not a disguised "A>B" Amirite? You are just mad that people do not swallow your Shitty attempts to pretend that A>B Exists As a standalone variable comparison that can somehow not be applied to another additional variable to extend the chain of variables in one formula. If Kakashi is jonin and Jiraiya is Hokage then that means the whole Narutoverse applies A>B>C logic because these ranks Itself are based on strength and there are a Ton of them. If C is a chunin, B a jonin and A a kage then that is nothing else then a hidden, rephrased way of using ABC-logic. You can try sidestep this all you want but we all know your logic is shit in that regard.

K bye now
 

Siskebabas

Well-Known Member
This only changes when there is a massive gap between two characters from the beginning. If you have character who is relatively close in the grand scheme of things, things like counters, speed, intelligence, intel itself, location and so on plays a big role
Naruto would not be that manga, there are far too few examples of that. We already have strong pecking order via ninja system
 

ShinAkuma

Judge of The Judge of Judges
Whatever that is supposed to be. Sounds As fanfictional As believing Tsunade can beat Itachi when even Orochimaru and Jiraiya can't. :lmao
Unfortunately for you in the real world Itachi himself told you Jman could beat him.

I'm not interested in some Discofanfiction.
 

DiscoZoro20

Ōka Shichibukai
Unfortunately for you in the real world Itachi himself told you Jman could beat him.

I'm not interested in some Discofanfiction.

Lool sorry but no. Try again. Itachi also said he is unstoppable and can not be beaen by anyone but Sasuke. And Kisame called him out As lying. Convent how you always try pretend that is not in the Manga too.
 

DiscoZoro20

Ōka Shichibukai
A draw isn't a loss.



No he didn't.



You should be taking your stories to fanfiction.net

I never said it was... Stop clutching for Straws. Show us where Itachi says he can "draw" with everyone. When you say you are unbeatable you mean that you are the strongest and win against everyone. After all He says he is unbeatable not that he never beats anyone. And if you say you can draw with everyone then you are automatically beatable. So your arguments are empty talk. You either have 0 common sense or are biased As hell.
 

ShinAkuma

Judge of The Judge of Judges
I never said it was... Stop clutching for Straws.
It's called facts.

And I'm feeding them to you.

Show us where Itachi says he can "draw" with everyone.
He says he and Jman will draw, not everybody.

Should try reading the manga sometime.

When you say you are unbeatable you mean that you are the strongest and win against everyone.He says he is unbeatable not that he never beats anyone. And if you say you can draw with everyone then you are automatically beatable. So your arguments are empty talk. You either have 0 common sense or are biased As hell.
A draw isn't a loss, so there is no contradiction.

Get back to fanfiction.net kid.
 

DiscoZoro20

Ōka Shichibukai
It's called facts.

And I'm feeding them to you.


He says he and Jman will draw, not everybody.

Should try reading the manga sometime.


A draw isn't a loss, so there is no contradiction.

Get back to fanfiction.net kid.

Mimimimiiii. :sag:sag:sag

Sad cause mad! :lul:lul:lul

Your response is ignorant As hell btw. I just went out of my way to Explain to you exactly why what sou said is nonsense and all you Did is reply with bs Meme attempt without giving a reason why what you said is legit.

Also I am talking about the Quote that he Brought up in his battle against Nagato not the one with Jiraiya. Re-read the manga Version and show us where he claims, what you said in that Statement.
 
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ShinAkuma

Judge of The Judge of Judges
Mimimimiiii. :sag:sag:sag

Sad cause mad! :lul:lul:lul

Your response is ignorant As hell btw. I just went out of my way to Explain to you exactly why what sou said is nonsense and all you Did is reply with bs Meme attempt without giving a reason why what you said is legit.
Just the facts man. Not my problem you hate facts.
 

ShinAkuma

Judge of The Judge of Judges
Ok then if that is what you Truly believe I challenge you right here and right now to Provide Evidence that Itachi actually meant what he said to Kisame.
But you haven't proven Itachi was lying?

You also have exposed your hypocrisy of taking Itachi's words as absolute truth in one instance (unbeatable) while simultaneously disregarding his words in another. (Jman)

Get the fuck outta here with this garbage tier nonsense. :camby
 

DiscoZoro20

Ōka Shichibukai
But you haven't proven Itachi was lying?

You also have exposed your hypocrisy of taking Itachi's words as absolute truth in one instance (unbeatable) while simultaneously disregarding his words in another. (Jman)

Get the fuck outta here with this garbage tier nonsense. :camby

Because Edo Itachi was the Version of Itachi capable of acknowledging his weaknesses while pre-skip Itachi was not. A Person that can not Acknowledge his weaknesses will not openly admit his love for Konoha nor will he genuinely Praise someone as his equal"Pre-skip" Itachi also made no sense while Edo Itachi was perfectly sound in whatever he said. Now stop dodging what I asked you. I do not have to Justify myself to be allowed to challenge your Argument.

So please Provide a reason because I am genuinely open to actually change my mind on this topic if you give me a valid reason that makes you believe so much that Pre skip Itachi had to be telling the truth.
 
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ShinAkuma

Judge of The Judge of Judges
Because Edo Itachi was the Version of Itachi capable of ackbowledging his weaknesses.
So hypocrisy then?

Now stop die ging what I asked you. I do not have to Justify myself to be allowed to challenge your Argument.
You need to prove Itachi was lying. Characters are assumed to be truthful unless we are given a reason otherwise.

So please Provide a reason because I am genuinely open to actually change my mind on this topix if xou gute a valide reason what von Investoren dou do much that Pre skip Itachi had to be telling the truth.
We have no reason to assume he was lying.
 

DiscoZoro20

Ōka Shichibukai
So hypocrisy then?


You need to prove Itachi was lying. Characters are assumed to be truthful unless we are given a reason otherwise.


We have no reason to assume he was lying.

Yes hypocrisy. If a character is a hypocrite he will not Praise someone who Has the same Hype level as Orochimaru genuinely. That just Makes no sense.

Yes we do. I am trying to explain them to you right now. You have to at least try to understand them first though. Like honestly. I am not saying that to take a jab at you. please try to understand my points and if you don't, ask me to elaborate. I will Gladly do so. Besides we also do not have any reasons to believe Itachi was not lying. You do Realize that right? Anyway as for my reasons:

Reason 1: Pre-skip Itachi was a double agent whose Mission ist to protect Konoha. Do you understand what a double agent is? It is his Job to lie for a certain Motive. That was the whole point of joining the akatsuki bro. Besides why are you pretending that his Statements are absolute anyway and that they are undoubtedly accurate when it concerns a sannin when Itachi already openly mocked another sannin when he was not busy faking for the sake of Konoha? Does it make sense to You that Itachi says to a sannin Orochimaru that he is not on his level Yet praises Jiraiya...? Be honest which Statement is more likely to be fake? We both know it already.


Reason 2: pre-skip Itachi was portrayed as a character that would never allow Himself to let others believe that he is equal to them. Itachi Himself admitted that openly in the Manga at the end of the story. You can not always take only Singular Statements at face value what Matters is the context of the scenes. The context is important and the context is that Kishimoto delivered are the 2 things above. Put them together and then use logical reasoning and you will understand that there is no credibilityin Itachi's assessment regarding Jiraiya whatsoever cause it is a clear lie whether you want to believe and like that or not.

Reason 3: his feats in the story far Exceeds Jiraiya's... Especially with Kisame as a support. and Itachi even adressed that Hype-Statement for Jiraiya you like to use and elaborates that he does not actually believe Jiraiya is Stronger. Otherwise Explain please why Itachi would tell Kisame about being exhausted from fighting Sasuke and says they are force to run cause of that if he wants us to believe that he can not beat Jiraiya anyway..??? Go ahead and try. I am Willing to bet you can't. And don't give me bs one-liners. Put coherent reasoning and thoughts in your response please.

Ps:FUCK AUTO CORRECT. :blobree
 
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ShinAkuma

Judge of The Judge of Judges
Yes we do. I am trying to explain them to you right now. You have to at least try to understand them first though. Like honestly. I am not saying that to take a jab at you. L please try to understand my points and if you don't ask me to elaborate. I will Gladly do so. Besides we also not have any reasons to believe Itachi was not lying. You do Realize that right? Anyway as for my reasons:

Reason 1: Pre-skip Itachi was a double agent whose Mission ist to protect Konoha. Do you understand what a double agent is? It is his Job to lie for a certain Motive. That was the whole point of joining the akatsuki bro. Besides why are you pretending that his Statements are absolute anyway and that they are undoubtedly accurate when it concerns a sannin when Itachi already openly mocked sannin when he was not busy faking for the sake of Konoha? Does it make sense to You that Itachi says to a sannin Orochimaru that he is not on his level Yet praises Jiraiya...? Be honest which Statement is more likely to be fake? We both know it already.

You are the one who takes Itachi's word as absolute. If you did not you would never make the argument that he is "unbeatable". That is a flaw in your reasoning, not mine.

Itachi being a double agent does not stop him from taking actions or lying about Konoha ninjas. He still went to Konoha and almost killed Kakashi. Kakashi would have been out of commission permanently if it were not for Tsunade, something that Itachi could not possibly know and therefore would never calculate for it. Itachi also correctly pointed out how dangerous Gai is, so we know from his most relevant history that he is not lying about Konoha ninjas.

So we know that Itachi is willing to engage Konoha's top ninjas in deadly conflict and we know he is telling the truth about Konoha ninjas when he estimates their threat level.

Itachi also has no reason to lie about Jman because he already has a built in excuse to abandon Naruto rather than capture, Naruto is not ready, which he uses and is re-iterated post time skip by Chiyo.

Jiraiya is the best of the 3 Sannin at least until Oro gets his Zetsu body.

Reason 2: pre-skip Itachi was portrayed as a character that would never allow Himself to let others believe that he is equal to them.
He's not letting Jiraiya believe he is equal. He believes it about Jiraiya. This is inverse of what you propose.

Itachi Himself admitted that openly in the Manga at the end of the story. You can not always take only Singular Statements at face value what Matters is the context of the scenes. The context is important and the context is that Kishimoto delivered are the 2 things above. Put them together and then use logical reasoning and you will understand that there is no credibilityin Itachi's assessment regarding Jiraiya whatsoever cause it is a clear lie whether you want to believe and like that or not.
The context here is clear - Itachi tells us how powerful Jman is. They encounter Jman and then flee. Itachi words and actions are consistent.

That's how context works.

Reason 3: his feats in the story far Exceeds Jiraiya's... Especially with Kisame as a support. and Itachi adressed that Hype-Statement for Jiraiya you like to use and elaborates that he does not actually believe Jiraiya is Stronger. Explain please why Itachi would tell Kisame about being exhausted from fighting Jiraiya if he wants us to believe that he can not beat Jiraiya anyway..??? Go ahead and try. I am Willing to bet you can't. And don't give me bs one-liners. Put coherent reasoning and thoughts in your response please.
Itachi believes he is a match for Jiraiya. You don't flee from those you are equals to, hence Kisame's question.

The act of fleeing suggests Jman>Itachi, not Jman=Itachi. As a result Kisame questions the course of action.
 

DiscoZoro20

Ōka Shichibukai
You are the one who takes Itachi's word as absolute. If you did not you would never make the argument that he is "unbeatable". That is a flaw in your reasoning, not mine.

Itachi being a double agent does not stop him from taking actions or lying about Konoha ninjas. He still went to Konoha and almost killed Kakashi. Kakashi would have been out of commission permanently if it were not for Tsunade, something that Itachi could not possibly know and therefore would never calculate for it. Itachi also correctly pointed out how dangerous Gai is, so we know from his most relevant history that he is not lying about Konoha ninjas.

So we know that Itachi is willing to engage Konoha's top ninjas in deadly conflict and we know he is telling the truth about Konoha ninjas when he estimates their threat level.

Itachi also has no reason to lie about Jman because he already has a built in excuse to abandon Naruto rather than capture, Naruto is not ready, which he uses and is re-iterated post time skip by Chiyo.

Jiraiya is the best of the 3 Sannin at least until Oro gets his Zetsu body.


He's not letting Jiraiya believe he is equal. He believes it about Jiraiya. This is inverse of what you propose.


The context here is clear - Itachi tells us how powerful Jman is. They encounter Jman and then flee. Itachi words and actions are consistent.

That's how context works.


Itachi believes he is a match for Jiraiya. You don't flee from those you are equals to, hence Kisame's question.

The act of fleeing suggests Jman>Itachi, not Jman=Itachi. As a result Kisame questions the course of action.

No you misunderstand. I don't believe he is unbeatable and I do not believe him just because he says so. What I was trying to say is when someone Admits that he thought he was unbeatable that a Statement of that same Person saying that he considers Himself equal to someone is evidently a lie. That is simply how it is.
 

DiscoZoro20

Ōka Shichibukai
Btw if something sounds weird it is because I am not an English native and kinda lose my train of thought when I write longer posts lol. Also Autocorrect still sucks. I am actually Putting a Lot of effort into this right now honestly.
 

ShinAkuma

Judge of The Judge of Judges
No you misunderstand. I don't believe he is unbeatable and I do not believe him just because he says so. What I was trying to say is when someone Admits that he thought he was unbeatable that a Statement of that same Person saying that he considers Himself equal to someone is evidently a lie. That is simply how it is.
I've already addressed this.

If Itachi is "unbeatable" and he draws with Jiraiya, his words about being unbeatable remain true.

There are 3 outcomes to a match. Win/Loss/Tie. If you have a record of 18 - 0 - 5 you have an unbeaten record.

You are trying to make an argument based on the premise that Itachi's words conflict with each other. They do not. His opinion of being unbeatable and his opinion of drawing with Jiraiya do not contradict each other because a draw is not a loss.
 

DiscoZoro20

Ōka Shichibukai
I've already addressed this.

If Itachi is "unbeatable" and he draws with Jiraiya, his words about being unbeatable remain true.

There are 3 outcomes to a match. Win/Loss/Tie. If you have a record of 18 - 0 - 5 you have an unbeaten record.

You are trying to make an argument based on the premise that Itachi's words conflict with each other. They do not. His opinion of being unbeatable and his opinion of drawing with Jiraiya do not contradict each other because a draw is not a loss.

That is not my point. You gotta understand Itachi's thinking here. Someone with that Attitude would not genuinely call someone his equal. Let alone his equal when he bases that Statement on a title that he already called out as mediocre from his point of view when he shat on Orochimaru and spit in his Face. You get what I mean? It is not about what they literally say it is about Itachi's character contradicting Inseln the way, he talks and behaves. You just can not take his wird at face-value because his Job was always to protect Naruto and Konoha so naturally he will try find all Kinds of excuses to avoid confronting actually Konoha Ninjas. You have to look at Itachi's character in a greater context and remember what his goals were... His Job... His more consistant behaviour etc etc.

Honestly I am not trying to downplay Jiraiya here but you simply can not take a mere Statement of a double agent as an absolute proof when said double agent was forced into a Situation that makes him go against everything he Intends to do and Works for. That simply does not work. The Problem here is that Kisame is around him. Kisame's presence takes away all the credibility Itachi has because he was not talking to Himself but in the middle of playing his role in Front of a fellow akatsuki member. Honestly your Arguments just have no solid ground here. It makes more sense to Argue for Jiraiya by comparing feats and portrayal.


The Problem is the language Bareer here. I can not properly explain to you what I want to say. I am trying really hard too lol.
 
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