1. Ohara Library Banner Contest

    The Beasts Pirates demand your services.
    Join the OL Banner Contest!
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Welcome to the forums! Take a second to look at our Beginner's Guide. It contains the information necessary for you to have an easier experience here.

    Thanks and have fun. -NF staff
    Dismiss Notice
  3. Winter is coming one last time...

    Dismiss Notice
  4. Come enter in the KCC Cooking Contest!

    Dismiss Notice
  5. Some Pokémon went missing during Easter time. Please, help us to solve this case. Check Detective Pikachu and the Eggstravaganza Case.

    Dismiss Notice
  6. The Anime Awards of 2018 have started! Click here to see the post!

    Dismiss Notice

Amish girl: Shoot me first

Discussion in 'The NF Café' started by Zodd, Oct 6, 2006.

  1. Zodd Procrastinating

    Messages:
    1,691
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2005



    I had a hard time reading this whole article. Made it about 3/4 of the way down and had to stop. Rest is at the link.
     
    Tags:
  2. sakarah007 The year of the Dog

    Messages:
    202
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2006
    Crazy Amish...oh, too soon? Too soon.
     
  3. CrazyMoronX Old Man

    Messages:
    74,768
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2005
    Man, Christians are evil. Selflessly giving their lives away like that, in effort to save others.

    Indeed, the world would be a better place, without religion.
     
  4. sunshine and gasoline slowly, he turned.

    Messages:
    7,605
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2005
    I don't understand. How would that have bought them time? If they were so fearless why didn't they instead try grabbing the weapon?

    This just seems completely stupid to me now. =/
     
  5. CrazyMoronX Old Man

    Messages:
    74,768
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2005
    They're girls, what do you expect?
     
  6. sunshine and gasoline slowly, he turned.

    Messages:
    7,605
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2005
    I'd expect them to start running like I would have done when I was a kid and as a kid if I couldn't run I'd just stand still and if the others started being shot then I would try throwing and attacking myself no matter how futile. If anything they only helped the killer chose who to shot first and therefore they actually made him work faster in theory. =/
     
  7. Cardboard Tube Knight Chika is god now.

    Messages:
    74,626
    Likes Received:
    587
    Trophy Points:
    3,258
    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2006
    QFT!

    People want to report all of the bad that happens when relgions do something wrong, what do you want to bet this won't make it on CNN, but that fucking water skiing squirrel will again somehow?
     
  8. EtherSword Kuuderes

    Messages:
    566
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2006
    Thats what I first thought when I read the title, its so dumb when people act like that, its starting to become a fad or something. If I was in the situation, I would do my best to get the gun, not go emo and say shoot me first.
     
  9. The Space Cowboy Unfair, Unjust, Human

    Messages:
    19,757
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2004
    Would you then? Seriously, before you fellows start making judgements, go read up on the Amish. They're quite hardcore.
     
  10. sunshine and gasoline slowly, he turned.

    Messages:
    7,605
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2005
    Yes, I indeed know very little about the Amish (just some basics brought up in school). Which like you said means that I don't know how they're suppose to react, but your argument of "reading up on the Amish" is invalid. So I can't have a personal subjective opinion on a matter unless I have complete knowledge surrounding it? :amuse

    You on the other hand should not make assumtion of me either. I was reffering on how I would react based on knowing myself (something you can't claim (since you don't know me as well as I know myself)).

    I'm from former Yugoslavia and was in the middle of the civil war there when I was small and back then I remember reacting by trying to run whenever I though I might be in harms way. So I made a conclusion from my past experiences on how they could have acted more productively as I see it.
     
  11. Havoc Basted God

    Messages:
    28,504
    Likes Received:
    31
    Trophy Points:
    653
    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2005
    She probably just got tired of listening to him.
     
  12. Razgriez Banned

    Messages:
    13,186
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2005
    Standing up to the enemy tends to have more impact and intimidation then running away. If you keep on running your eventually going to get caught and you give them power over you cause they know when they come all your going to do is run away. Even though what the girls did was suicidal it was noble as well and Im sure impacted the gunman's feelings very much.
     
  13. EtherSword Kuuderes

    Messages:
    566
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2006
    Giving a person a free shot isn't a noble thing to do, its stupid. Kickero, why wouldn't I try to stop someone from killing me? I don't care if they were amish or not. You don't make it easy for killers to kill you.
     
  14. sunshine and gasoline slowly, he turned.

    Messages:
    7,605
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2005
    I'm alive by running. She's dead by standing up and choosing death. I win.

    I still don't see how she's noble since I don't see how she delayed the killer; like I said. I on the other hand am far more noble since I ran and now I can grow old doing good deeds all around me. :amuse
     
  15. Razgriez Banned

    Messages:
    13,186
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2005
    Granted its not something I would do (I would of jumped him)but I find it very noble and brave of those girls to stand up against the gunman even if it was just sacrificing your life.
     
  16. EtherSword Kuuderes

    Messages:
    566
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2006
    Thats a better way to put it, because at least they weren't crying and begging for their lives? Since they were 11 it would be expected but they didn't do that so thats something noble at least.
     
  17. sunshine and gasoline slowly, he turned.

    Messages:
    7,605
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2005
    A kid crying and begging for their lives is actually recommended since there is some hope of the killer taking pity and them surviving. You guys have been watching too much Braveheart or something. They're kids and should have begged or ran or anything instead of choosing death. THERE IS NO DISHONOR IN THAT AT ALL!

    I don't hate the killer for shooting them; I hate their parants brainwashing them and raising them into accepting death. =/

    Now if they had actually had a good plan and managed to delay the killer and even dying in the process; then I wouldn't find them completely religiously brainswashed kids. So someone tell me; how does them accepting death delay the killer? It doesn't and it didn't.
     
  18. Havoc Basted God

    Messages:
    28,504
    Likes Received:
    31
    Trophy Points:
    653
    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2005

    That makes a lot of sense...
     
  19. Razgriez Banned

    Messages:
    13,186
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2005
    In Braveheart the guy goes and lops people's heads off with a 6 foot sword who try to kill him.

    Your gonna die eventually mine as well make it memorable.

    I disagree with you about the parents brainwashing them in that aspect. I think it was more of their own choice to try and help out their fellow classmates.
     
  20. That NOS Guy The Pilot Who Lives by Pride

    Messages:
    2,543
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2006
    Where and how would they run exactly? They'd just get shot pounding at a door then. Remember that they were locked in the school.

    It's gotta happen sometime, and trying to buy time so that others might live is about as heroic as it gets.

    My understanding of events is that he only started shooting right before the police came in, valuable seconds. Please do think before posting.

    Onto another issue, I've seen a few people extoll the virtues of Christianity because of the solitary actions of a little girl? Why is it that you can claim "it was only a few greedy people misusing Christianity" to weasel out of the Crusades, but you can claim that the entire group is personified in a singular example?

    Honestly, it's most confusing.
     
  21. sunshine and gasoline slowly, he turned.

    Messages:
    7,605
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2005
    I was refering to the fact that you guys seems to glamourize accepting death due to it being honorable; much like Braveheart ended with the William Wallace choosing to stand up for his beliefs despite torture etc. I should have been clearer.

    A. They were kids and kids should not think about making their death "memorable".
    B. Like I said it's fine to save others but I still don't think them accepting death instead of trying to grab the weapon is silly way to try to delay a killer.

    Amish seem peace loving and other kids would have tried different methods of trying to save their peers; that was my assumtion. So I looked for the explanation in the only source that I could; paranting and religious beliefs. Flawed perhaps but with the lack of information, it's all I have to use. ^^

    Please read my post where I say that if a child can't run away from danger then it is more wise to try to attack the danger no matter how futile. Instead they bought time by dying; which I find retareded. ^^

    Sorry, but I don't want kids heroic. I want them alive and if they are going to be heroic then one of them trying to throw something or attack the killer in any way makes more sense than to step forward and say "Shot me first."

    This changes things indeed but still I don't buy it saving the other kids by saying to the guy with the weapons to actually kill them first. From what I've read this killer was well armed and could have blasted them all in a few secs so I don't see how they thought they could buy time.

    And once one of them got shot then I'd think they'd try to run or attack no matter how futile. I simply don't understand why they just seem to have accepted death. Frankly I still find it retarded and like I mentioned above I can only see their paranting and religion as being the cause for these kids to accept death so willingly when they had no reason to believe that they'd have any gain from it at all.

    PS.
    Please, do try and stop putting in small clever insults against my subjective views in the matter by posting things such as "Please do think before posting." it only makes me want to disregard anything you say as "retarded intellectual wannabe bullshit".

    If you have more facts and info about this incident please do share them with the rest of this good community instead of acting like a total fucktard about it. ^^

    I admit my anti-chrisitanity and anti-religion bias openly. I used to be a catholic and now that I'm not anymore I do tend to looks down on it quite alot. Call it a chracter flaw or whatever but I don't plan to do much about it.
     
  22. Giovanni Rild The mods are my enemy

    Messages:
    12,739
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2006
    Do any of you even look at the fact that the Amish are pacifists?
     
  23. That NOS Guy The Pilot Who Lives by Pride

    Messages:
    2,543
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2006
    It's easy to play armchair admiral and say "Well I'd launched a bayonet charge into the face of machine gun fire." It takes highly motivated, highly disciplined troops or sheer fantacism to do such a thing. I see neither here with little girls who couldn't physically overpower their attacker and were already bound by the time the shooting started.

    There's also the fact that say one or two people do it. Ok, what about the rest? Are they supposed to somehow develop the elain and courage of someone while they're scared shitless? I thought now.

    Not all hostage situations end with shootings. No need to force such thing from a hostages perspective when charging the assialent .

    You really think people with only their bare hands can be more effective then a heavilly armed assialiant, don't you? That's a death sentence and once the shooting starts it doesn't stop. What makes you so positive such a charge would be successful?

    You're highly entertaining if you're saying you don't want children to be hoeric then urge them to charge an armed assailent. It's hilarious.

    Uh no. The space of shootings was immensly conpacted. He just emptied close range as opposed to calculated headshots that time offers. The police were storming the building as soon as shots were fired, he quickly offed himself after doing a botched job.

    Volunteering to be the first (and thus presumbly recipent of aimed and thought about shots) buys time for the police and the other girls.

    Already bound.

    You'll quickly learn that when bound and the crazy man has a gun it's best to make peace with yourself while you have the chance.

    Fine then, kindly fuck off. Until you're actually put into a situation like this don't have the gall to claim that people are idiots for being afraid.

    Yeah, I'm an atheist too, that doesn't mean we should parade around calling little girls that sacrifice themselves in an attempt to save others morons when they could have obviously mounted a uniform charge against an armed crazy man who vastly overpowers them still in the hand to hand combat arena (:notrust ).

    There's suicide and then there's playing for time. Shockingly enough, the choice that attempts to perserve the greater amount of lives is playing for time.
     
  24. WhiteRider40 The Imperishable Fire Commands

    Messages:
    219
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2006
    Whether you think that was the right decision or not, that was a noble thing to do, and it was done by a child. You should at least have respect for those that love others.


    "I don't hate the killer for shooting them; I hate their parants brainwashing them and raising them into accepting death. =/"

    Any claims made by you are now invalid as far as I'm concerned.
     
  25. Ray Mr Big Shot

    Messages:
    454
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2006
    I found it odd but quite honorable. How many people would ask to be shot first? The one thing we can't see from these girls' perspective is what was going on in that room. Maybe she sensed he was going to kill regardless and thought it would buy time for the others.

    Alot of people would say they would charge but really you don't have a gun pointed at you. I hope nobody ever has to go through this type of situation here. :(
     
  26. AstraeaX Don't Panic!!

    Messages:
    50
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2006
    i was held up at gunpoint a few weeks ago, i suppose i can empathize with those girls...although i wasn't calm i did feel a need to retort (flight/fight i suppose), the fact that anyone can just come up to you at any given time and expect to assault you and restrain you with just holding out a gun- its just ridiculous...and it could've cost my life if my friend wasn't there to set me down and tell me shut up and give them the goods. I do have a bit of a temper, but even if i had retaliated the worse scenario was i if i got shot...but if i went down i'd definitely take that bastard with me.
     
  27. Ray Mr Big Shot

    Messages:
    454
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2006
    That's really saddening that you have been at gun point and so recent. Everyone reacts differently to situations. You wanting to react probably has alot to do with the way you were raised, though i'm glad you had your friend their to help.
     
  28. Eagle88 Hunter-nin

    Messages:
    225
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2006
    (sarcasm)Oh, that's brilliant. Let's make him nervous on the trigger finger so he'll kill more people.(/sarcasm)
     
  29. Gunners .

    Messages:
    47,460
    Likes Received:
    657
    Trophy Points:
    2,009
    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2005
    Yeah if someone held a gun to you, you wouldn't actually charge at them. Like the time it would take to get to them is longer than it would take to shoot.

    Also I don't see a gun man intemidated with fear that he wouldn't actually pull the trigger from a couple of girls who couldn't actually overpower him.

    Overall I am saddened by it I don't really understand comments like -''I don't hate the gun man I hate their family for raising them that way''- from my point of view the gun man commited the wrong the girl did a good act I am not going to hate on someone for raising their child that way anyway I look at it I can't view her act as stupid. I respect it to be honest how old was she 13, I wouldn't really expect that action from adults.
     
  30. JokerDemon I am alive.

    Messages:
    287
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2006
    Some of you say that you don't hate the gunman, you hate the parents for raising the kid that way, but what the hell?

    If the gunman wouldn't have been there, there would have been no reason for the girl to do what 'her parents taught her to do'. If you want your children to run away, get the gunman mad, and get shot faster, then you do that. If you want your child to run toward the gun at failed attempts to disarm the man and give the bullet less time to reach your kids organ and kill them, you do that. Truth is, only very few of you would do either of those two things, so why suggest?
     
Loading...