1. Welcome to the forums! Take a second to look at our Beginner's Guide. It contains the information necessary for you to have an easier experience here.

    Thanks and have fun. -NF staff
    Dismiss Notice
  2. My fellow ningen! It's time for another Dragon Ball Banner Contest!

    Dismiss Notice
  3. Come enter in the KCC Cooking Contest!

    Dismiss Notice

An all-too-common misconception about Itachi

Discussion in 'Konoha Library Archives' started by So_Smart_s0_Dumb, Oct 17, 2006.

  1. For some awkward reason, it seems I have the only logical and sane interpretation of Chapter 224, page 10, panel 4, second sentence. (-Link)

    What confuses me so much is why basically everyone assumed once reading that, that he in fact -activated- the Sharingan at age 8, instead of mastering it. Now well, you might read this and think, "So, what does it matter? We can still safely assume he got the Sharingan at age 8, he did nothing important prior to that and now he has the Mangekyou so... no reason to debate this". However, what passively accepting this false belief creates is the logical deduction that at age 7, he graduated from the Academy of purely his own skill, giving him false credit...

    That is not the case, as I will prove through simple reasoning and logic. I feel the need to do this because I met with such... opposition when I stated that Itachi is awesome because of his Sharingan, and -only- awesome because of it that it suprised me to know that the forum base can be so misleaded. I won't debate the fact of whether it means activate or master because... well, it says it in the manga so you have really have two choices

    1)Stick to your misconception about a false interpretation
    2)Re-read that and see for yourself what the manga says

    So, for those of you who chose 1), you can leave now, for those who chose 2), let me further enlighten you...

    Him mastering the sharingan instead of merely activating it at such an early age holds much importance regarding just how Itachi got so strong. Obviously, since he had the Sharingan at such an early age, he had an advantage at movement predicting which made him develop confidence. That same confidence which allowed him to face enemies and copy their techniques, thus becoming strong himself. All he had to do was see the teacher do the Bunshin no Jutsu and that was it, he learned it and he could take the graduation test. Same for the bells, he would watch both of his teammates try to get the bells and the technique that they used that made them almost successful, then he would take each of their techniques and use them both and it would act as "teamwork" but from a single person. In the Chuunin Exam, he was easily exposed to a massive number of tai- gen- & nin- jutsu skills that would prove useful in later times.

    Along the line, he copied so many techniques and became so powerful that he despised his clan for caring about useless things. This is when he wanted to test himself to see if he was really this powerful. Which indeed he was, for proof... I refer you to him beating the FUCK out of not 1, not 2, but 3 Uchihas, all with their 3-tomoe Sharingans activated and ready.
    (-Link, and -Link).

    So, from this, we can safely say that he was moving more then triple the speed of Kyuubi Naruto @VotE. Must've copied Shishui's mirage techinque.
     
    Tags:
  2. caius Member

    Messages:
    204
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2006
    Only issue I have is the thing about bells. I'm pretty sure that's not a universal test, it's been passed from the third to Jiraiya to the Fourth, to Kakashi. I don't think every jounin instructor does that.
     
  3. superflyninjaguy pimpjuice pwnage no jutsu!

    Messages:
    309
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2005
    actually i think they do thats y only 9 students become genin ea/ year.
    and about itachi its true that the sharingan helped him earlier on but he was indeed naturally strong .thats wut led him to the abilit of mastering sharingan by 8
     
  4. slashez Member

    Messages:
    261
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2005

    there are some holes in this theory i should point out. First off, you appearantly giving no credit to itachi himself as opposed to crediting what, only his sharingan for his success? Mastering the sharingan itself is most likely....no simple task. When sasuke was a boy, his father told him that he was too young for the sharingan, that coupled with the fact that most uchiha members dont even have their sharingans activated, tells us that activating, let alone mastering the sharingan is no small feat unto itself. So it seems like you should give credit to itachi where credit is kind of due. I should point out that i deffinitely dont consider itachi as one of the strongest characters in the series, having said that, he is still a genius amongst geniuses even in the prestigious uchiha clan.


    secondly...your "interesting" theory about itachi moving triple the speed of kyuubi naruto at vote isnt based whatsoever on logic. First off, the sharingan user's ability to manipulate his own sharingan is directly related to their own power. Thus, the connection is simple, itachi wasnt moving triple the speed that naruto was at vote. It means, and simply means, that sasuke at Vote is stronger than any one of those cops when itachi fought them, it does not mean itachi is some super speed god.
     
  5. uchiha_C Half-Mortal

    Messages:
    102
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2006
    i dont think it matters if he obtained or mastered sharingan at 8. thats still amazing. it still takes a genius to master/obtain it at such a young age.

    and Shusui was called Shusui of the body flicker right? almost everyone knows that jutsu, Shusui was just super good at it(so was Yondaime). This didnt make Itachi any faster, he still did hand seals faster than Kakashi with sharingan could see. that speed was all itachi.
     
  6. Shidoshi Cross Marian: Ninjai's Father

    Messages:
    5,043
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    594
    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2004
    You're assuming he had his sharingan since he was in the Academy. That's not necessarily true. You make an assumption in the same vein that people make when they say that Itachi activated and mastered his sharingan at age 8. That's a whole year. Sasuke never said that Itachi mastered his sharingan on his eighth birthday, and Sasuke went from activating his sharingan to mastering it in around a year as well, so it's quite possible for the more talented Itachi to have made the evolution quicker. Or, he was like Obito, and started with two tomoe in each eye.

    You're in the same boat.

    Another assumption, as Kakashi is the only Jounin instructor in his generation that is said to have a post graduation test. In fact, he's one of only two known people to administer that test, though, we can probably assume that since Sandaime used it on Jiraiya, that Jiraiya used it on Yondaime and Yondaime used it on Kakashi. But there's no evidence that Itachi had to go through such a test in order to remain a genin.
    Perhaps. But it's his body skill that would allow him to reproduce those copied jutsu if he copied any at all.

    He was said to be fairly powerful without any mention of copying a large number of jutsu. I mean, if he were to have as many copied jutsu as Kakashi, then he'd be known for that (but not have the same nickname), just as Sandaime was for his vast knowledge.
    Indeed, he was powerful enough to take on three older Uchiha cops with mastered sharingan as well, but he would have clearly had to have a body that outclassed theirs, because, as you prove, the sharingan would have allowed them to do the same thing Itachi did, especially since you say that Itachi owes his strength to his sharingan.

    They also had mastered sharingan. And might've had it for longer, and would have been exposed to more jutsu, being older and being the Police force for all the ninja clans in Konoha. The same would apply to them, but he totally outclassed them, meaning that they're sharingans cancelled out and Itachi's body was simply superior.

    For someone who claims that they're going to use the manga to prove something (and not very well, I might add), you're going on inaccurate information.

    Shisui wasn't called "The Mirage", nor is there any evidence he had such a technique, he was called "Shunshin Shisui", as in "Shunshin no jutsu", the D- or C-rank technique ninja use to move in a flash. If Itachi copied that, then the other cops could have copied it also, and they would have cancelled each other out in terms of speed.

    But Itachi completely outclassed them, meaning he was stronger than they were overall...not just because of his sharingan, because, again, if what you say was the case, they all had the same level sharingan, so his advantage would have been cancelled out by their sharingan, and he would have been outnumbered.

    So, you haven't actually proven anything. You've made an assumption and based an entire assertion off of that assumption. Which puts you in almost the same boat as anyone who thinks that Itachi manifested and mastered his sharingan in the same year.
     
  7. Uchiha kid Icon Master

    Messages:
    2,791
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2006
    It makes sense.....
     
  8. TheoDerek Rise Against

    Messages:
    4,952
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2005
    So what exactly is your point?

    Sharingan is badass and so is Itachi?
     
  9. Shidoshi Cross Marian: Ninjai's Father

    Messages:
    5,043
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    594
    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2004
    He was trying to say that Itachi owes all of his success and power to his sharingan.
     
  10. TheoDerek Rise Against

    Messages:
    4,952
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2005
    I know

    I was just being a smartass. :p
     
  11. Shidoshi Cross Marian: Ninjai's Father

    Messages:
    5,043
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    594
    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2004
    Ahhh...the famous "smart ass no jutsu"!

    My sharingan in my sig copied it.

    Oops...now I'm stronger than everyone 'cuz I copied it.
     
  12. geminis Active Member

    Messages:
    5,774
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Joined:
    May 9, 2005
    I don't get it. Are you giving him credit for graduating the academy without the use of sharingan or are you rebutting that fact? He must've obtained the sharingan at 8 meaning he did a whole year within the academy without sharingan aftwerwards he activated and then mastered the sharingan after 8 years of age.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2006
  13. My point was never to prove anything, as you can clearly see from the thread title, it's to clear up a common misconception about the origins of Itachi's power. I haven't made any assumptions either, I just deducted common sense & logic from a head-on fact that has been seemingly misinterpreted. That deduction is the reasoning of the fact that since he mastered it at 8, he must've had it before he -mastered- it so in that time he must've copied techniques. This is the reason he is so good, he copied techniques that made him good and when he copied a technique that he couldn't do due to body limitations, he strived to be able to do that technique and worked until he could do it.

    So when he was facing the 3 Police corps cops, he already had a trump card because he had honed his body to the techniques he had been exposed to at an early age. So by time he faced them, he already faced numerous enemies (He was after all, at the time at least... the ANBU captain). His exposure to various and rare techniques was much more then that of a Police Corp member whose jurisdiction is only in Konoha.
     
  14. The Truth Active Member

    Messages:
    3,475
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Joined:
    May 28, 2006
    Of course Itachi owes the majority of his strength to his sharingan, was there any doubt?
     
  15. dregoth Cooking Genius

    Messages:
    1,519
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Joined:
    May 22, 2005
    Uh the Uchiha he beat were much older and also had time to collect techniques and all that. It's just weird to assume 13 year old Itachi was exposed to more techniques than those older guys.

    I believe the databook, even in shinobi basics Itachi excels the regular shinobi, and these abilities do not concern the use of Sharingan.
     
  16. Magenkou Sasuke Sambooka Shot No Justu!

    Messages:
    146
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2006
    Why couldn't you just post this in the other thread in response to all the facts i had stated?

    Anyway, i think it's safe to assume that Itachi wasn't the only Uchiha in the academy. I will also assume that he wasn't the only Uchiha in the academy to have the Sharingan activated. That said, the fact that Itachi was praised as the finest student to ever pass through it's doors just presents his superiority over other Uchiha's who by your logic should all be as strong as him.

    Even if Itachi was the only Uchiha in the academy to have his Sharingan activated, that also proves that he had some trait or a body that was superior to all the other Uchihas.

    Then there is the main reason for Itachi's infamy, the fact that he wiped out THE ENTIRE CLAN of Uchihas. Now i think it's safe to say that there were Uchihas in the clan with Sharingans who were much older than Itachi and in turn would have copied many many more techniques. So by your logic yet again there should have been single people in the clan who were much stronger than Itachi, yet he wiped out them plus the rest of the clan in a single night.

    I don't get how your logic works, basically you are saying that the Uchihas were basically a clan of S-Ranked shinobi. Which we know isn't the case at all.
     
  17. Nahrootoe is cooler than sliced bread.

    Messages:
    485
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2006
    He must have activated it before he mastered it, yes.

    How much before? 2 days? 2 months? 2 years?

    You have no evidence to support any claim. Given that we know it was a year before when he was touted as the best of the academy, and given that Sasuke mastered his Sharingan in less than a year, your argument is unlikely to apply. Chances are he already excelled in the academy before he ever activated Sharingan.

    Uh huh. And this is logical how?

    What jutsu's did Itachi show against the cops? Punching them in the face no jutsu?
     
  18. Shishi-O Oda Is God

    Messages:
    5,827
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2006
    actually just having ms puts you above the level of a regular ms user.

    but yeah, i've also used this example of itachi's pwniosity:)
     
  19. Because he was able to copy alot of other techniques, he had could spend alot mroe time honing the things he couldn't train. So as a result of the shortcuts the Sharingan cut for him, he was allowed to focus on things that he couldn't copy, and he focused on them with great will.

    I'll use an analogy to explain

    LEE can't use techniques, so he hones his taijutsu
    Itachi copys all techniques, so he doesn't need to practice any. So he hones his taijutsu, coupled with his Sharingan he has the movement predicting abilities + his honed taijutsu skills.
     
  20. eric_gaysandninja_08 New Member

    Messages:
    3
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2006
    Question!

    i'm really sorry for not knowing this much about naruto and this may sound like a stupid question but why does kakashi have sharingan?
     
  21. blazingshadow True Wind Rune

    Messages:
    6,390
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2005
    itachi could have very well started with a 3 tomoe sharingan the very first time he activated it. or he could have developed from no tomoe to full 3 tomoe in less than a year. the guy did a perfect katon without sharingan on his first try. saying that he couldn't have mastered sharingan in less than 12 months is ridiculous.
     
  22. If you haven't seen the manga chapter yet, then don't bother opening getting the answer [I would STRONGLY suggest just waiting for it in the Anime version]:

    Spoiler:
    He got it from Uchiha Obito, his friend that got killed during the Kakashi Gaiden ARC/FLASHBACK and he just activated it, it was a present for his new Jounin status.
     
  23. Shidoshi Cross Marian: Ninjai's Father

    Messages:
    5,043
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    594
    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2004
    Yes, but you also go on to say that it was because of his sharingan that he was able to easily pass the Academy graduation exam, which is the assumption you're making: Itachi had his sharingan since he was in the Academy...of which there is no evidence to support such an assertion. He could have gone from activating to mastering his sharingan in two months at age 8; Sasuke never said that he mastered it on the day of his eighth birthday.

    He faced three older Uchiha cops; one of them (the white haired one) was in his forties, which means he would have had much more time to copy and perfect copied jutsu with his honed body, so, by your logic, he should have been stronger than Itachi because they both had the same level sharingan, but Itachi had his for much less time by the time that altercation takes place.
    Itachi only had one or two stated missions by the time the altercation takes place, and the three Uchiha cops were in the First Battalion in the Konoha Keimu Butai, meaning they would have been exposed to various clans' jutsu in the course of their jurisdiction duties, so, again, by your logic, they should have been stronger than he was.
    Proof?

    Itachi was only between 11 and 13 by the time that altercation takes place, so if you're going to attribute him jutsu and abilities we've never seen him copy, then I could just as easily say that the white-haired Uchiha, in his forties, had between 3 and 4 times Itachi's experience and was probably exposed to many different jutsu while he was a Chuunin before joining the Police Force.
     
  24. The Fourth Hokage Shinobi Perfection

    Messages:
    3,650
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2006
    I was with you until you started getting out of hand. I agree that he could've and most likely did activate the sharingan back in the academy. He mastered it, as far as I'm concerned, at 8 when he got his third tomoe (that I would say is mastering the sharingan) I'm with you on all of that.

    The problem lies in where you made such a logical leap by saying that he's 3 times faster than KN. That's just ridiculous and there's nothing to logically base it on. Also, you say that Itachi only copied jutsus. There has to be something in himself that made him so good. The other Uchihas were weaker than him, and they saw action too. The Sharingan doesn't make a powerful shinobi, it just provides an avenue to exploit. Itachi did a better job than everyone else.
     
  25. Him -MASTERING- the Sharingan at 8, is evidence enough that he had it activated before. The proof of him copying jutsu's is his abnormally fast progression through the ranks. He was exposed to some life-threatining or resolve-forming incident much like Sasuke or Obito's and as a result got the Sharingan. His movement prediction abilities from then on were improved from his Sharingan's abilities. He also had the advantage to only see a move once and then have no need to practice it, at such a young age, this is an invaluable tool that would cause him to progress through the ranks much faster. Also, since he didn't have to spend time practicing techniques, he honed other abilities which weren't so common or easily copied such as taijutsu, which explains his performance against three other Uchihas in their prime years.

    I do not doubt for one second the fact that him being an Uchiha and activating the Sharingan, is in any way irrelevant to the fact that he progressed through the ranks much faster then the average. To think all of this is a coincidence is naive & foolish. It's a misconception that you are defending pretty well though, seeing as it's one of those things that are just a given. However, when you try to debate things that are "given", you can find the things that cast doubt upon what is "given", as you are doing just fine.

    BTW, him having a Sharingan and them having a Sharingan do in no way "cancel each other out". If anything, it provides a chance to show who exploited and made the best out of their abilities. Uchiha Itachi is an ANBU Captain, at age 13. He was 13 when he did this to the guys. He was able to do this because of the time he was allowed to practice things like taijutsu, and hone it to his best abilities. Plus, other Uchihas weren't concerned with maximizing their abilities like Itachi was, which allowed him to exploit their weaknesses. Plus, i'm thinking it was definetely all just a scene to show his Strength. After all, do you really think Haku could beat Kakashi? Even though Sasuke was catching up to Haku's speed without the Sharingan, then when he finally had it on lock, he activated his Sharingan and he was able to hit his shirt. Again, this is just an example of buffering an enemy character up so that when the protagonists beat them, the audience appreciates it more.

    At the end of the day, here's what each and every one of us has to decide:

    -Is Itachi good because of his Sharingan, or good just because he's good, or maybe... a combination of both?

    A compromise is what we must meet here, and I admit I've been being stubborn about the whole "beating 3 Uchiha's with mastered Sharingans" ordeal. Thus I conclude, it's a combination of both.

    But at least I met my main goal in clearing up a common misconception about it which many people had.
     
  26. Rhaella nothing but the rain

    Messages:
    15,636
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2006
    Yes, this is probably true. But there are some rare people who once picking up on a certain talent, very, very quickly get the hang of it. I could definitely see someone like Itachi being able to manage such a feat. But yes, I can believe that he might have had it back in the Academy. By and large, I agree with you.

    Like you and others have said... if it's just the sharingan, he wouldn't be better than your average Uchiha. This is obviously not the case. But the sharingan has to play a role, considering the advantage that it gives him, and how fascinated by it he's always seemed.
     
  27. Let's not forget something; This is Naruto, a manga made by Masashi Kishimoto, not real life. Kishi dictates entirely what each and every character does, so if he (He being Itachi, a fictional character) is credited with passing through the Academy and mastering his Sharingan at age 8, it's because Kishi wanted it to tell his story this way. With that said, it becomes quite clear just how Itachi got his abilities and how that affected his progression through the ranks using simple logic.

    It isn't -just- the sharingan, but it does play a crucial role in Itachi's array of abilities and him being able to spend time honing his taijutsu skills.
     
  28. Shidoshi Cross Marian: Ninjai's Father

    Messages:
    5,043
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    594
    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2004
    If all you've done is come to a conclusion that many of us have already said, in that Itachi is strong partly because of his sharingan, then you've wasted our time with this thread.
     
  29. The Uchiha Wrath Harmless spectator

    Messages:
    1,153
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2005
    Heh, the first time he's introduced he's got a seal speed that surprises even Kakashi, the exploding bunshin by which Asuma was surprised, showed us the biggest katon ever singlehandedly at 30% the databook basically shouts even his basic shinobi talents are perfected and people are already whining 'ZOMG! It's all because of the Sharingan\MS' :amuse
     
  30. BaBu Righteous Fist

    Messages:
    127
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2004
    I wish I had as much time as some of you to sit around and think about naruto all day.
     
Loading...