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An idea about how strong current Goku and Vegeta are

Discussion in 'Dragon Ball' started by MShadows, Jan 5, 2019.

  1. MShadows Deathbat

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    As of now, we've got three continuities: the DBS anime, the DBS manga, and the movie continuity which is Toriyama's personal one.

    Now the anime and manga versions of DBS both rely on Toriyama's outlines to tell the story, although they each have their own different twists. One detail these two share however, is the fact that by the time of the ToP, Goku and Vegeta seem to have reached the very bottom of the GoD tier. And no, I'm not talking about UI here, but about their SSBKK/SSBE forms for the anime, and their MSSB forms for the manga.




    Let's check out the anime first:

    Near the end of the ToP, we had Toppo make up his mind and turn into a GoD. We all knew that Toppo was a GoD candidate, but upon making his mind up and transforming, Toppo becomes a fully-fledged GoD as mentioned by Belmod.



    But since he's a newbie and lacks the experience, we'll just peg him as the entry for GoD tier.

    Later on, Vegeta takes on GoD Toppo is his SSBE form, and although he's outclassed at first, he manages to turn the tables on him after getting a massive boost. Boost that he's kept, as confirmed after by Jiren. Therefore, by defeating GoD Toppo, Vegeta has made his way into GoD tier territory as well in his SSBE form.

    But Vegeta is not the only one to grow stronger. We've seen that when Goku reactivated UI Omen for a second time in 116 he's shown and stated to be once again breaking through his limits and increasing in power.



    This power up seems to have translated to his overall gains as well, as after he fully recovered in 123 he performed a lot better than even his SSBKKx20 self did before against Jiren in just SSB.

    *By episode 123, Goku and Vegeta appear to be equals, as seen during their tag team fight against Jiren. Vegeta will then go to become stronger in his fight against Toppo though in episode 126*

    By a simple analogy, his third and final awakening of UI Omen during his last battle against Jiren (in episode 129) must've yet again increased his overall strength, making him cross into GoD tier territory as well in just SSBKK and likely catch up to Vegeta's boost against Toppo.

    Finally, after the ToP finished and they were healed, both Goku and Vegeta should receive a final Zenkai to become even stronger and ascend some more into the GoD tier.





    Now let's check out the manga:

    In the manga, Vegeta eventually masters SSB as well, catching up to Goku. Then, after challenging Beerus and losing, the God himself makes an interesting statement.



    While a huge gap still exists between him, at the level of power that Vegeta had at the time Beerus thinks that he could even become a candidate for GoD in another universe. This is proven true when we're introduced to an actual GoD candidate from another universe, Toppo!

    Although MSSB Vegeta has an edge, manga Toppo is more or less as strong as him. Thus confirming Beerus's statement. This means that both MSSB Goku and MSSB Vegeta have the necessary power to be fit within the GoD tier, but at the very bottom like Toppo.

    *While Goku doesn't receive any intermediate form between MSSB and UI in the manga, Vegeta gains a new transformation (an evolution of MSSB) which seems to give him quite the huge boost*





    Now, let's see what things look like in DBS: Broly movie!

    Although how much time has passed between the events of this movie and the ToP, judging by how much Bulla has grown I'd assume it's been about a year. Both Goku and Vegeta have continued training hard ever since the events of the ToP, and are evenly matched in power.

    Now, as you most likely well know, this movie doesn't feature any of the exclusive forms seen in the anime (SSBKK/SSBE) and manga (MSSB/Evolved SSB), and SSB is portrayed as the peak of their power. When even both of them together as SSBs couldn't do a thing against SSJ Broly, Goku believed that only by fusing would they have a chance.

    I believe that if this movie were to be adapted into either of the two mediums, Goku and Vegeta would be using their previously mentioned exclusive forms in their brief clash against SSJ Broly. This is further implied by Toyotaro's promotional drawing of Goku and Vegeta fighting SSJ Broly, in which they appear in their MSSB forms. But since these do not exist in Toriyama's vision of the story, the classic SSB represents the height of their power for this movie.




    Taking into account all that is mentioned above, and since the movie takes place after the ToP, due to having continued training intensively, current Goku and Vegeta should have climbed even further up on the GoD tier ladder.

    As a little bonus, in the first chapter of the new manga arc (which follows the events of the DBS: Broly movie) it's even explicitly mentioned that following their clash with Broly, the two have grown even stronger yet again, so there you have it.





    In short: Both current Goku and Vegeta are GoD tier. They're just two, very weak GoDs at the moment :torilol
     
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  2. JayDZ3 Well-Known Member

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    “If the average GoD is a 1, I would say Beerus is about 1 million”

    :torilol
     
  3. Millón Vasto Damn, I'm even thiccer then Jiren!

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    Ok manga confirms broly can atleast deal with mastered goku and vegeta in his ssj form.

    Unfortunately the events regarding powerscale are left in the dark just like golden frieza but a lowball for this all is putting mastered goku broly ssj and vegeta as relatives.

    But yeah them bieng god tier is pretty much a given. Albeit low tier.
     
  4. The Supreme God GODSPEED Aka Thespiritdetective . Grumpy lumpy.

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  5. MShadows Deathbat

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    That's not a new form tho, it's just Goku pulling a Kaioken by supercharging himself for a few moments.
     
  6. The Supreme God GODSPEED Aka Thespiritdetective . Grumpy lumpy.

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    :mikebatman close enough :tupac
     
  7. MShadows Deathbat

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    A stunt that got him scolded by Roshi of the God Weed :tupac
     
  8. Millón Vasto Damn, I'm even thiccer then Jiren!

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    Lets not bring that trash Supercharged MSSB tier plus speed and reaction level roshi, cuz muh skill in here. That shit is nightmare fuel.
     
  9. MShadows Deathbat

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    I believe Toyotaro was on some pretty nasty shit himself when he got that idea. Horrible, horrible writing!
     
  10. Millón Vasto Damn, I'm even thiccer then Jiren!

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    Yeahp. Well we atleast got morro now.:Mshad
     
  11. Claudio Swiss Well-Known Member

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    Didn’t iwan mention how goku and toppo were on there level or something
     
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  12. MShadows Deathbat

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    That would drastically lower the entry level for GoD tier in the manga.
     
  13. Millón Vasto Damn, I'm even thiccer then Jiren!

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    Seems to me that entry level for gods is retardly low regardless what u choose, Given even mastered blue vegeta us but a mere ant to beerus. An ant that can annoy him but an ant nevertheless.
     
  14. Claudio Swiss Well-Known Member

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    The line was in the anime coming from rou as well
     
  15. goombanthime well-known member

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    I view it more as a generic, "they're so strong"
     
  16. MShadows Deathbat

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    Yeah, it would make a lot more sense if he were referring to them having "God Ki" rather than being on the level of the Gods, since all of them are still pretty much massively stronger than them. Both SSG and whatever Toppo uses seem to possess "The aura of a God".
     
  17. Millón Vasto Damn, I'm even thiccer then Jiren!

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    Nah. I disagree. No need to change the meaning. When the reference is clearly made to power. This just like the anime is moreso a case of either throwing it out like thet did with ssj2 goku and then blue goku when god toppo shows up or in this case when actual gods fought and grandpriest was having none of it. In this case since both beerus and iwan made compairisona to themselves as a group. They are full of shit.

    The anime however made a general statement regarding toppo. Making it not really contradictory. And he showcased power and skills espially hakai to back it up

    Ita best thrown out instead of trying to fix something wich clearly is not there aka aura thing.
     
  18. Griffith Well-Known Member

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    Not trying to turn this into an anime vs manga thing, but I can never take the anime scaling seriously after the ToP I'll just accept it at face value where a character is only as strong as the situation needs him to be.
     
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  19. Claudio Swiss Well-Known Member

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    I honestly believe they don’t even think goku and vegeta have gotten this amount stronger
     
  20. Griffith Well-Known Member

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    Same.
     
  21. Blade row row fight the power™

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    > massive toyo fan crew
    > says he can never take the anime scaling seriously after the ToP

























    > what anime exists after the ToP? :tupac :torilol
     
  22. JayDZ3 Well-Known Member

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    GoD tier ceiling Keeps getting pushed up cause Toriyamas boner for Beerus
     
  23. PureWIN Mr. Prince

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    Ugh, makes no sense. If Toppo and SSG Goku were already fighting at the same level as the GoDs, then why was Zeno still entertained? In the manga Zeno formed the ToP because he felt GoDs fighting was too high-level. Manga has shitty writing.
     
  24. PFM18 Well-Known Member

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    It's annoying that we now have a definitive 3rd continuity, "Toriyama's continuity" in the first place. And I wish that comment about the purple cat didn't exist in the movie because it complicates things given what all the promotional material says.
     
  25. xmysticgohanx Zoro > Law

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    There’s 4 continuities

    The anime
    The manga
    The movie
    The novel
     
  26. Gogeta Shape shifter

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    In a sense, this is the issue

    Even if they've actually thought about it a LITTLE BIT when saying that Vegeta/Goku are already on the tier of the gods, even if that were true, it creates an issue

    If Vegeta is an ant to Beerus
    Where the fuck does Beerus stand

    Is he the strongest GoD?

    It creates even more issues if he ISN'T, but lets say that he is


    The difference between low tier GoDs and high tier GoDs is insane

    Like even any middle-class GoD SHOULD one-shot low-tier GoDs

    There is not even much point to having such difference IMO
     
  27. Perfect Susano Well-Known Member

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    They rival the Gods in their Super Saiyan Blue forms and even in their Super Saiyan God states. This was stated multiple times in the story. They haven't just now reached that level. The only gains that Goku and Vegeta made in the TOP were new forms. The arguments otherwise are disingenuous.

    It's like claiming that Base Vegeta>SSJG Goku since a full power Jiren blocked and parried him while SSJG Goku only made a suppressed Jiren use a finger.
     
  28. Bogard Well-Known Member

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    Seeing how they portray Freeza who isn't a saiyan, i honestly doubt they view that much upgrade in strength in the Blue Stage. I do think they are stronger in blue than they were at the start of the tournament, but not with as big tier gap as people think. They probably aimed at the next stages(Vegeta's new form and Goku's SSBKK) to be the thing placing them close to the gods, with Goku's MUI being the thing surpassing the gods, but that Goku doesn't master at the moment.

    The manga portrayal around Toppo(who didn't have a god form) comparatively to MSSB Goku/Vegeta who were also in Hit's range implies as much. Thinking of it could also explain many things concerning Freeza from his performances in the tournament and movie as well as the threat he represents to them individually(outside of their new form) eventhough he doesn't get as much gain as them
     
  29. goombanthime well-known member

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    What about Goku dominating Kale and Caulifla in SSG, while he was dominated in Blue by her earlier in the tournament
     
  30. Claudio Swiss Well-Known Member

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    Goku was holding back
     
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