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Are they still Kage level?

Discussion in 'Naruto Battledome' started by Shark, May 16, 2018.

  1. Shark On a break..

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    3 tomoe Itachi, and no he cannot use Susano'o (nor Izanami).

    Kisame w/o Samehada (not the Kisame from the flashbacks but the current one).

    Jiraiya w/o SM, Ma, Pa and Gamatrio.

    Tsunade w/o Katsuyu and Byakugo.

    Minato w/o Hiraishin and all of its applications (barriers, etc) and SM.

    Deidara w/o C3 and C4.

    Base Bee w/o Bijū (access to partial transformation is allowed).

    Danzo w/o Izanagi and Koto.

    BoS Sasuke w/o Kirin.

    Hebi Sasuke w/o Kirin and CS.

    Armless Orochimaru w/o Kuchiyose (no large snakes nor Rashomon).

    BoS Kakashi w/o Kamui.

    Will add others later.
     
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  2. WorldsStrongest Wick Dizard

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    Closer to high Jonin tbh

    He has no lethality or game enders whatsoever here

    Fireball jutsu isnt ending any decent Kage level fighter

    Only thing that even makes this half a discussion is Genjutsu
    Yes

    Look at what he did on Turtle Island

    For sure a Kage tier performance
    Ehhhhh

    No

    With no summons Jman loses A LOT

    Dark swamp and Toad mouth trap are not enough to carry him into Kage tiers...

    High Jonin same as 3T itachi
    No

    Jonin level if not lower tbh

    Literally BoS sakura
    Still has Kage bunshin, top tier shunshin, cho odama tier rasengans, sensing, top tier sealing and boss summons

    Yeah still Kage level for sure
    C2 Dragon likely carries him to low kage

    He did manage to press and outwit and escape all of Team Gai and Team 7 without either of these techniques

    Or his goddamn arms for that matter
    Acrobat still wrecked 3T sasuke

    And he still has raiton game, ink clones, and partial transformations

    Id say yes
    Meh

    Maybe low Kage

    Baku is decent and his fuutons are pretty legit

    His seals are also scary
    Yes...Easily...The dude is stronger than a sick Orochimaru in his own dimesnion and is stated to be >KN3 Naruto by a notable margin
    Yes

    He beat Deidara without Kirin

    Nor did he rely that heavily on CS

    And is superior to BoS sasuke who is easily Kage tier in base given how he bitched Team Kakashi casually
    Id say yes
    No

    Even Immortals Kakashi wasnt considered Kage tier by Jman
     
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  3. King Itachi ^/_\^

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    Mid Kage

    High Kage

    Low Kage

    Elite Jounin

    Low Kage

    I'll assume he doesn't have C0. Low Kage

    Mid Kage

    Elite Jounin

    Low Kage

    Low Lage

    Elite Jounin

    Low Kage
     
  4. Maverick04 Out of touch

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    Yes..he can still 1 panel kage level shinobis who have no genjutsu defense..His hand seals and combat speed is also quite fast and was able to keep up with KCM Naruto, SM Kabuto and Killer Bee in CQC with just 3T..He also has top tier shuriken jutsu, kage bunshin feats and can deceive high level opponents like Hebi Sasuke and Kakashi with his crows into trapping them in genjutsu or just use an elemental ninjutsu (Katon, suiton and fuuton according to the databook)


    Yes he is a Kage tier without Samehada..Still has massive chakra reserves..Can absorb chakra through skin (if chakra is being sent into the skin)..Still has his bigass suitons, 1000 sharks, daikodan, waterdome etc.

    Yes..He still has his katons, fuinjutsus, yomi numa, rasengan, toad mouth trap (which almost took out Kisame), Toad gourd prison, Lions mane, Yatai kuzushi, and smaller toads which in itself are capable of taking out some low jonins (like Ebisu) and blocking samehada attack from Kisame.

    Still has yin seal and creation rebirth (regular mitotic regen with hand seals)..her taijutsu skills are also quite good along with ranshinsho and CES capable of doing some large scale damage..She should still be a kage level shinobi

    Hmm..his fighting style revolves around FTG and barriers and stuff..Without that and SM he only has his rasengan, his toad summons, FCD, elemental ninjutsus (fire wind and lightning according to the databook)..his base speed, reflexes and intellect is still high level though..He should be kage level but barely

    Yes ofc..Keeping up with team guy with a kunai in his mouth and armless..One shotting a Tailed Beast with a small explosive..C2 dragon and being able to clone feint a sharingan user also puts him comfortably at kage level

    Turned Early MS Sasuke(who is a kage tier) into shish kebab..And totally wreck his shit..Easily Kage tier

    He should be able to hold his own against a few low kage tiers..IIRC he killed a bunch of assassin shinobis with just his fuutons..Since you have only restricted Izanagi and Koto, im gonna assume that he still has 3T

    Yep..Low Kage tier..CS2 + 3T should easily put him at Kage tier.

    He can still cover the battle field with a whole bunch of snakes each carrying a sword..He also has the kusanagi blade which he used go carry and pin down KN4..So yea he should still be kage tier..atleast a low level Low kage


    Elite Jonin in part 1 so he should be above his part 1 self in shippuden with three years of training..Was considered worthy to be a hokage..1000 jutsus + 3T Sharingan + 1st gate + high level intellect..This dude even without the MS has got it all..Even if you dont consider him as kage level, he should atleast be borderline
     
  5. The_Conqueror Well-Known Member

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    Egypt, Switzerland, Sweden, Spain, Serbia, Russia, Portugal, Germany, France, Denmark, Croatia, Belgium, Uruguay, Peru, Colombia, Brazil, Argentina, Saudi Arabia, South Korea, Japan, Iran, Australia, Panama, Mexico, Costa Rica, Tunisia, Senegal, Nigeria, Morocco, Poland
    Itachi was a kage level at the age of 7 when he did not even have sharingan :blinditachi
     
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  6. Ultrafragor Well-Known Member

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    You rated Hebi Sasuke, in base, higher than BoS Orochimaru.




    Wakanda shit is this?
     
  7. Architect of the Works of Beauty

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    1. Probably
    2. Probably
    3. High Kage
    4. No
    5. No
    6. Yes
    7. Yes
    8. Yes
    9. Yes
    10. Yes
    11. Dunno
    12. Yes
     
  8. Tri ✌️

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    I’d say they’re all still Kage level bar maybe BoS 3T Kakashi.
     
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  9. Bonly Flame Alchemist

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    I'd say all of them would be bumped down to Low Kage lvl with Kakashi and B not making the cut
     
  10. Eliyua23 Well-Known Member

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    Itachi take away MS and he’s still top tier in mutliple categories Gen , Int, Spe , Tai he could hold his own against most Kages if not defeat them his Ms merely pushes them beyond their level

    Jiraiya Ma and Pa merely make him A High Kage beyond 98% of Kages without them he still has excellent base stats probably best in the manga has very little weakness has good CQC strong , fast enough , experienced long,mid range nin still Kage level

    Minato for sure still can outspeed and duel most of he narutoverse still has a keen intellect and access to dangerous Uzumaki seals , FTG merely make him one of the 3 strongest non Juubi Jins to ever live

    Tsunade’s whole aresenal of what makes her special revolves with her support and CQC boost with that taken away probably a decent jounin Level Shinobi

    Kisame hell no hes jackshit w/o Samehada

    With Deidara weirdly yes becasue those things make him more dangerous but it doesn’t take away from what he is a long distance fighter with a powerful jutsu he can still fights the same and still has versatility with his C2

    Danzo yes very low though still has a powerful summon , seals , very solid intellect

    Sasuke BOS Hell no Kirin is what seperated him from his peers and made him special early on he’s a kid jounin here


    Sasuke again pre MS , Kirin is what makes him special , he’s not adept at using Orochimaru’s power but it makes him close to Kage but not quite


    Kakashi hell no , Kamui makes him special in pt 2

    Armless oro, low Kage only becasue he’s insanely difficult to kill he guy went head to head with KN4 close to body failure
     
  11. Gin Ichimaru's Shadow Sanbantai taicho Ichimaru Gin

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    Itachi-yes. He can still use Crow Jutsu, fast seals. His intelligence also gives him a chance.
    Kisame-yes. He was able to fight with Gai on quite good level. He could also break out of Mokuton and fool opponents.
    Jiraiya-no. Without SM he loses a lot of power. If you take away Toads, he is high end of Elite Jounin.
    Tsunade-no. Same tier as Jiraiya.
    Minato-yes. He can use Rasengan variations and has very good speed. If you mix it with his intellect, he is low Kage level.
    Deidara-no. Mostly Elite Jounin(unless you count suicidal C0).
    Base Bee-yes. Watch his CQC against Sauce and Itachi.
    Danzo-yes. Low Kage level. He still has Baku, cunningness and powerful Futons(watch his road to the Summit).
    BoS Sasuke-yes. He beat Yamato who is Elite Jounin and was able to kill weakened(still strong) Orochimaru
    Hebi Sasuke-yes. He is mid low Kage. Sasuke can still use Snakes, Chidori variations and Hydra.
    Armless Oro-yes. He still can take a punch from strong opponent(Tsunade), has Kusanagi and big speed.
    Kakashi-Elite Jounin. It is a bit better Part 1 Kakashi.
     
  12. wooly Eullerex BTW, Izanagi is a ninjutsu; chidori is a nin-taijutsu

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    3 tomoe Itachi yes

    Kisame w/o Samehada (not the Kisame from the flashbacks but the current one). yes

    Jiraiya w/o SM, Ma, Pa and Gamatrio. yes

    Tsunade w/o Katsuyu and Byakugo. w/o Sozo Saisei, no

    Minato w/o Hiraishin and all of its applications (barriers, etc) and SM. no

    Deidara w/o C3 and C4. yes

    Base Bee w/o Bijū (access to partial transformation is allowed). yes

    Danzo w/o Izanagi and Koto. of course, yes

    BoS Sasuke. yes

    BoS Kakashi w/o Kamui. no
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2018
  13. Silnaem Nothing for Wisdom

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    Elite jounin because of stats and intelligence
    His MS, however, was his 'something exceptional' that put him in the kage tier


    Epic Water Releases as well as his swordsmanship still make him exceptional


    Skilled (low kage) because his resourcefulness is still second to none


    SS still makes her good for random scenarios, never mind her prodigious healing abilities.
    Highly Skilled (low kage upper echelon)


    What about Uzumaki seals?
    Even if he doesn't have them, his speed, intelligence and Rasengan make him exceptional
    Skilled


    C1, C2, flight and creativity are still very good.
    Also, you forgot C0
    Leader, barely (low mid kage)


    So V1, V2 are allowed?
    If so, the stats boost alone is enough for kage tier
    Even if not, his stats and genjutsu are good enough to make Skilled tier, with his raiton pens adding a nice touch
    Highly Skilled


    Seals, elemental releases and intelligence are still highly useful. Never mind the speed to tag MS Sasuke
    Leader (mid kage)


    Good skills but nothing exceptional
    Useful (jounin)


    Oral Rebirth is still a great 'get out of jail' card
    Skilled


    Kusanagi and Oral Rebirth
    Highly Skilled


    Genjutsu, elemental releases and support abilities still make him exceptional
    Highly Skilled
     
  14. Hi no Ishi Well-Known Member

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    Elite Jonin to low Kage. His genjutsu and shruiken jutsu are top notch still.

    Yep, turtle island made that obvious, 10,000 sharks and Daikodan are still dope, and he still has Kage level strength.
    Low kage.
    Yep, definitely. Hair that can shred a boss summon and act at mid range and defend, an earth trap that can sink even a boss summon or Kage level, paralyzing oil, can turn you into a toad, BFR barriers, great tactics, super fast Katon. Mid kage

    Yep, still has a terrifying attack, is super hard to kill, signal scrambling, and good speed
    Low kage
    Lol of coKage.

    Can seal you into a rock. Top class Shunshin, impossible sight and reflexes, Boss summons. Rds mid kage



    Low Kage, still a flying explosion artist.
    can shred Sharingan users and overpower the Raikage, great speed and power, lightning blades, Samehada. Mid kage.
    Good speed, cursed seals, Wind mobility, boss summon, high power Futon, Sharingan user, mid Kage
    Low kage.
    Low kage
    Poison, Regen, 5 elements, cursed seals
    Good speed and strength.
    High Jonin.
     
  15. Soldierofficial Well-Known Member

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    ...
     
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2018
  16. Limbo Well-Known Member

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    Itachi- Still kage level, advanced and versatile genjutsu skills coupled with his general swiftness allows him a spot.

    Kisame- Should still be kage level, although on the lower spots.

    Jiraiya- Was seen fighting Orochimaru in his flashback without any summon, and came out alive. Kage level for sure.

    Tsunade- Her taijutsu skills and strength coupled with healing allows her a spot.

    Minato- Still a noted genious, taught by Jiraiya, should still be kage level.

    Deidara- Should still be kage level even with his minor explosives.

    Base B- Still kage level, kenjutsu skills coupled with raiton plus general toughness and swiftness allows him a spot, although in the lower ones.

    Danzo- Hiruzen's "rival" since his younger age, should still be kage level. He showed high level Futon and had a good performance when he was ambushed. Should still be kage level.

    Bos Sasuke- Should still be kage level, advanced kenjutsu, raiton, speed and smarts allows him a spot. Also Cursed Seal. Same with Hebi.

    Armless Orochimaru- Was noted as a monster by Kabuto, and could hang with KN4 Naruto, although in the losing end. Was seen as still above Sasuke, whom i see as kage level.

    Bos Kakashi- I have pt 1 Kakashi as kage level already, an impopular opinion but whatever. This one Kakashi is a better version. So kage level still.

    Good thread @Shark
     
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  17. MSAL At the King's shrine

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    Low-mid Kage

    And for those that say he can't beat/incapacitate/fight/find an opening against kage level shinobi with his non ms genjutsu;





    These are kage level shinobi, and he used 3 tomoe genjutsu. The only reason Bee escaped and was not made a pin cushion was partner method.


    Low-mid Kage.

    Low Kage.

    High Jounin, possibly bordering on low kage at best.

    Low-mid Kage

    Low Kage

    Low-mid Kage

    Low Kage, Possibly bordering on mid at best.

    Low Kage

    Low-mid Kage

    Low Kage at best.

    Elite Jounin
     
  18. Shazam Well-Known Member

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    Elite Jounin

    Low Kage

    Low Kage

    Low Kage

    Low Kage

    Low Kage

    Low Kage

    Low Kage

    Elite Jounin

    Elite Jounin

    Elite Jounin
     
  19. savior2005 Well-Known Member

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    Didn't 3-Tomoe Itachi defeat Orochimaru, who is around high kage? Yes Orochimaru probably underestimated him, but I'd think that Itachi is at least low kage without MS
     
  20. Matty Satetsu Dude

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    I think mostly all of them are at least low kage or higher, the only one I don't see is Sasuke with those restrictions. Without restrictions Hebi would be kage level and BoS would probably be really close
     
  21. Soldierofficial Well-Known Member

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    High Jonin

    Low Kage

    High Jonin

    Mid Jonin

    Mid Kage

    Low Kage

    High Jonin

    Low Kage

    Low Kage

    High Jonin

    High Jonin

    High Jonin
     
  22. Matto Chosen One

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    @Soldierofficial

    How is Jiraiya only High Jounin? Even with the restrictions in this thread, he one-paneled Kisame and Konan. What Elite/High Jounin is capable of that?

    And how is Tsunade only a Mid Jounin? Her medical techniques and hand-to-hand combat make her Kage level. Let's not forget that a rusty Tsunade forced Kabuto to exploit her fear of blood after running from her. Kabuto was emphasized to be on par with Kakashi, who in Part 1 was already one of the most famous/accomplished Jounin in the world. And Kabuto couldn't beat her fair and square when she was 20+ years out of practice. Let that sink in.

    Even before Creation Rebirth, Tsunade was considered the world's strongest female ninja and the perfect candidate for Hokage. I don't think taking away Katsuyu would be enough to bump her out of the Kage class.
     
  23. riousrain Well-Known Member

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    3 tomoe Itachi, and no he cannot use Susano'o (nor Izanami). Low Kage

    Kisame w/o Samehada (not the Kisame from the flashbacks but the current one). Low Kage

    Jiraiya w/o SM, Ma, Pa and Gamatrio. Low Kage

    Tsunade w/o Katsuyu and Byakugo. Low Kage

    Minato w/o Hiraishin and all of its applications (barriers, etc) and SM. Upper Low Kage

    Deidara w/o C3 and C4. Low Kage

    Base Bee w/o Bijū (access to partial transformation is allowed). Low Kage

    Danzo w/o Izanagi and Koto. High Jounin

    BoS Sasuke w/o Kirin. Low Kage

    Hebi Sasuke w/o Kirin and CS. High Jounin

    Armless Orochimaru w/o Kuchiyose (no large snakes nor Rashomon). High Jounin

    BoS Kakashi w/o Kamui. High Jounin
     
  24. Soldierofficial Well-Known Member

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    Base Jiraiya didnt defeat Kisame & Itachi, I dont think what he did meant that he easily defeated Kisame, I'm sure Kisame could give him problems or defeat Base Jiraiya if he was already as strong as in Part 2.

    Konan w/o prep is Jonin Level.

    Do you think War Sakura (pre Byakugou) is Kage Level? Because that is the level of Tsunade without Byakugou and Katsuyu.

    Rusty Tsunade is High Jonin Level, that does not mean that Hokage Tsunade is also High Jonin, since then he got in shape.

    Kakashi and Kabuto are also High Jonin, but they are among the weakest in that tier.
     
  25. Hussain Well-Known Member

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    you will have to make a line to what Kage-level is. Those days, literally any fodder with any type of "feat" is considered to be
    Kage-level. :catshrug

    By default, all of them will remain Kage-level since this term is EXTREMELY loose.

    If I have to suggest something, you should put a point of reference so everyone can be on the same page. For example,
    if we consider the minimum for Kage-level is to be around Mei's level. Then judge those characters based on how their power
    is compared to Mei.

    Something like that... :catshrug
     
  26. Eliyua23 Well-Known Member

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    3T Itachi , Yes it was enough to one shot FRs Naruto , Deidara , and push back Orochimaru his Genjutsu , CQC skills , and tactical mind and sheer speed are enough to challenge any Kage on the low end

    Kisame w/o Samehada no he’s only really useful against a small portion of enemies as is w/o that said numbers decreased tremendously

    Tsunade - I’d say in combat no as a support ninja yes she still could heal and reverse most injuries/sickness she was able to heal Kakashi from Ms Genjutsu

    Minato - yes he still has Insane sunshine skill , and Uzumaki seals are enough to compete with most Kages


    Deidara- no as those are the abilites they make him dangerous in the first place


    Base Bee yes he took on Taka and was able to overcome Raikage’s lariat

    Jiraiya close but not quite he has no game changers


    Danzo sure his futons , fuinjutsu , CQC skills , summon are still powerful and he proved to be able to defeat Shisui who was one of the strongest Uchiha


    BOS Sasuke isn’t Kage Level with Kirin so no

    Hebi Sasuke’s most dangerous ability was Kirin so w/o it still potent but no

    Orochimaru challenged KN4 on his deathbed I’d say yes

    Kakashi BOS is barely Kage Level with Kamui so no
     
  27. Matto Chosen One

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    Kisame was on the brink of defeat by Jiraiya's Summoning: Toad Mouth Trap and would have been killed if not for Itachi's Amaterasu.

    Based on what? Which known Jounin-level characters could defeat Konan?

    Yes. Sakura's level of firepower against the Juubilings is enough for her defeat Jounin-level fighters. I don't see any Jounin-level ninja defeating her.

    And the comparison to Sakura isn't completely fair anyway, because Tsunade was still more skilled in both medical ninjutsu and hand-to-hand than that Sakura.

    And as I said before, a rusty and out-of-shape Tsunade was heavily pressuring Kabuto despite having all of the disadvantages in that fight, and she forced him to exploit her fear of blood to incapacitate her. In fact, he was in awe of her power because he couldn't believe she was still so powerful after having given up being a ninja for 20+ years: "So this is a living legend..."

    An in-shape Tsunade would clearly be too much for any Jounin, even with Katsuyu and Creation Rebirth restricted.

    You listed Tsunade w/out Katsuyu and Creation Rebirth as Mid Jounin. Have you changed your mind?

    Disagree. By portrayal, they are some of the very best Jounin out there.
     
  28. Soldierofficial Well-Known Member

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    We dont know if Kisame had been defeated, just as we dont know if P1 Kisame was Kage Level, Gai was not, when both were at the same level in their last fight.

    Based on that any known Kage is much stronger than her, and that the only members of Akatsuki that are Kage Level according to feats and portrayal are Pain, Itachi, Obito, Kisame, Deidara, Sasori & Kakuzu.

    Kakashi (pre-Pain Arc), WA Darui or Old Chiyo could defeat her.

    Teen Sakura (pre-Byakugou) could defeat 3T Kakashi, WA Darui, Asuma, Hiashi, Choza, Shikaku, Juugo? Any Mid-High Jonin destroys that version of Sakura.

    Why?

    What I said is that Tsunade (w/o Katsuyu & Byakugou/Strength of a Hundred Seal) is Mid Jonin Level, which is the most logical seeing that Teen Sakura (pre-Byakugou) was Low Jonin as much.

    I have never said otherwise, Kakashi and Kabuto were some of the strongest Jonin in the world, but in my opinion there are other High Jonin Level characters that are stronger than them, like WA Darui, Kitsuchi, Hidan, Healthy Kimimaro, Old Chiyo, Gamabunta, Manda, Konan, etc.
     
  29. Gianfi Well-Known Member

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    1) Yes. With 3T he defeated Orochimaru and Deidara, was also portrayed as trigger than P1 Kakashi, Asuma and Kurenai (the first two usually being considered high jounin), his 30% clone trolled Naruto

    2)I think so, he still has mad stamina, phisically strength and suiton techniques

    3) Yeah, he is too. His base stats are still pretty good

    4) She still has immense strength, so yeah she would pulverize any jounin

    5) I think he’s low kage. He still got very high reflexes, is very smart and all

    6) Flight and all his other techniques still makes him a foe more dangerous than any Jounin

    7) Definitely. In this form he thought 3T Itachi and 3T Sasuke

    8) I’m not sure. I mean, he got killed by a shuriken. He probably is a high jounin

    9) nah

    10) mmm his phisical stats should still be kage level, his katon overpowered Itachi’s.. I’d say he is a low kage, probably one of the weakest kages
     
  30. ThirdRidoku Well-Known Member

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    -LMAO At 3 tomoe Itachi being jounin level when we saw him stomping jounin without using his full power in base according to Kakashi and the lore.
    When we saw him one panel Orochimaru, a Sannin level with basic genjutsu and a kunai
    His genjutsu alone is a finisher because genjutsu is known to be able to incapacitate people. He was almost able to put naruto to sleep with 30 percent of his chakra available before Chiyo and Sakura snapped him awake, all while fighting Kakashi at the same time, if you actually paid attention to that scan. Second best non-god tier genjutsu user in the series.
    His exploding clone is easily a finisher when combined with genjutsu, shuriken techniques, and katon, and any other technique he has copied with his sharingan during his time as an anbu and Akatsuki member, which he can weave at speeds that most ninja cannot perceive. When Itachi casts ninjutsu, you won't even know when he did.
    Easily a High tier Kage in base.

    Jiraiya- easily mid tier Kage due to Yomi numa and wide arsenal of techniques including oil, hair, fireball and toad mouth trap. Odama Rasengan is anti taijutsu/kenjutsu for the most part.

    Kisame without samehada drops from From being slightly above the Sannin down to Being below the Sannin. Samehada is the focal point of his fighting style. Daikodan is still a powerful finisher though. So he is probably a higher tier low Kage.

    BOS Kakashi Low Kage where he pretty much always is until he gains DMS.
    Armless Oro is still unkillable for many people so is easily Mid-High depending on matchup.

    Tsunade without hax healing?:giogio probably drops to Low Kage, still a solid shinobi though.

    Danzo without Izanagi or Koto- unknown, because he suffered from PIS against Sasuke and has nothing else going from him from what we saw. He still has some hashirama cells though.

    Base Bee with partial transformations is easily Mid Kage Level. He was useful in a fight against Minato of all people lol.

    Every version of pre- EMS Sasuke- High Jounin. Even MS Sasuke wasn't Kage level, he got clapped by every Kage.

    Minato without Hirashin?:giogio He Still has incredible Shunshin and rasengan, but his fighting style is REALLY dependent on FTG. He drops considerably down from High Kage to possibly Mid or even Low Kage
     
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