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At what point in the Tournament of Power was FT Arc SSB Vegito and Merged Zamasu Surpassed?

Discussion in 'Dragon Ball' started by Marvel, Sep 15, 2018.

  1. Marvel Banned

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    Because this seems like a tricky topic in debates that lead to negs,dislikes and flames. There's evidence to suggest Merged Zamasu was surpassed by 109 with a supressed Jiren stated to be the strongest ever faced by Goku. But there's also evidence to dissprove this notion.

    So now without any confirmation on when these characters were surpassed we get LSSJ kefla vs SSB Vegito. Or Kefla vs Zamasu or 122 Vegeta vs Vegito etc.

    If we knew exactly when these two characters were surpassed and the answer was accepted we could potentially end all those chaotic debates.
     
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  2. JayDZ3 Well-Known Member

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    Well we know toriyama wanted m zamasu to be ~ ssb goku and ssb vegeta so toei ignoring his draft (his scaling is shit but still its his story) doesn't really count

    Which means Vegetto struggling with m zamasu can be counted as non canon toei filler, therefore vegetto was only surpassed by LB Jiren and MUI Goku
     
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  3. Juub

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    I'd say he surpassed Merged Zamasu in episode 122 after his second power up.

    He surpassed Vegeto in 127 after his final power up. Perhaps 130.

    That's my personal opinion, there's no way to really say whether or not he's stronger than Vegeto because he's never been compared to him. All of them are seemingly GoD+ tier. Jiren more so than Vegeto and by extension Zamasu in my opinion.
     
  4. OLK Well-Known Member

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    When Jiren stopped dicking around and fought seriously
    He surpassed MZ when he fought Omen Goku the first time
    Who knows if he ever surpassed Vegetto Blue
     
  5. Rakuyo

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    jiren at 100% prior to his ptsd power up could prolly give vegito a fight but loses nonetheless

    ptsd power up jiren beats vegito imo
     
  6. WorldsStrongest Genius, Billionaire, Playboy, Philanthropist

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    There is straight up 0 way to concretely argue that Vegito was surpassed by anyone in the ToP

    And scaling wise...It makes 0 fucking sense for Vegito to have been surpassed. Looking at Keflas gains from Potara and applying that to 2 fighters dozens of times stronger than Base Cauli or Kale AND giving that fusion 4 transformations higher than Kefla has makes Vegito a monster.

    SSJ2 Kefla was > UI Omen levels of raw power

    Vegito would be dozens of times stronger than Kefla in equal forms, and he has access to SSJ3, SSG, SSB and SSBKK to stack on top of a SSJ2 power that starts out dozens of times stronger than SSJ2 Kefla...And therefore his SSJ2 is also dozens of times above UI Omen....Who is borderline GoD tier.

    Even lowballing Vegito and putting his SSJ2 State = SSJ2 Kefla, the gains hed make from just going from SSJ2 to even just SSG would be monumental...Let alone SSB thats an additional 50x stronger at bare minimum and a x10 Kaioken on top of that if needed.

    As for Zamasu, id say at BARE MINIMUM FP Jiren is decidedly above him, tho id honestly say that even 127 Jiren is above him due to definitively surpassing Toppo who was GoD tier, and Zamasu never gaining that accolade iirc.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2018
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  7. KennethLT Well-Known Member

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    Ft arc vegito was probably surpassed in 129 by omen goku and fp jiren. Before that, toppo and vegeta would probably put somewhat of a decent fight.

    Vegito was not far superior to merged zamasu in the anime, so its possible vegito could have been surpassed before hand.
     
  8. Claudio Swiss Well-Known Member

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    Merged zamasu:127 jiren
    Vegito blue:FP Jiren by a small margin and /LB form and MUI goku
     
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  9. Erkan12 DB and OP Expert

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    UIO Goku and 109/110 Jiren are solidly above them.

    Jiren in Episode 122 when he was fucking around could go either way.
     
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  10. ChadtheGoat Well-Known Member

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    Vegetto>>>UI Goku=Bills 100%>Belmond=Jiren.

    Sorry nerds.





     
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  11. MShadows Deathbat Moderator

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    Those are just some cards for a game, dude...
     
  12. MShadows Deathbat Moderator

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    It's Vegetto >> UI Goku ≥ Limit Breaker Jiren > Jiren > Belmod ≥ Beerus
     
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  13. Tom Servo Pants Pants Pants Pants

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    Well no if its still in the story its still canon. Just because the author didn't want it doesn't mean we can ignore it. Toriyoma also wanted to end the series at the Frieza saga does that mean we ignore everything afterwards as non-canon too?
     
  14. Tom Servo Pants Pants Pants Pants

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    That's unlikely given the trouble Zamasu was giving vegetto and how SSBKKx20 was somewhat effective against him. Vegeto and Zamasu are likely around Beerus and Belmod's tier but below Jiren still.
     
  15. Fang Well-Known Member

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    I thought Belmod and Beerus were equal? The biggest issue to me with the GoDs in the anime was we never really got an idea of the pecking order among them outside of Champa = Beerus.
     
  16. WorldsStrongest Genius, Billionaire, Playboy, Philanthropist

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    Whis seemed to have enough reason to put Belmod above Beerus in power. Beerus himself didnt outright deny that assessment either.

    Aside from arguing that Whis was just "joking around" or something, theres really nothing to contradict that Belmod>Beerus
     
  17. Fang Well-Known Member

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    When did Whis do that?
     
  18. WorldsStrongest Genius, Billionaire, Playboy, Philanthropist

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  19. MShadows Deathbat Moderator

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    I made a whole thread about that one statement
     
  20. God Movement

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    Red Rep Bar Someday
     
  21. KennethLT Well-Known Member

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    While FT vegito was surpassed, a current vegito would outright destroy jiren and UI goku. So it doesnt matter.ï
     
  22. Fang Well-Known Member

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    Right, forgot about that. So it goes down to:

    Belmod > Beerus = Champa and then > the other Gods of Destruction since we don't know where they sit > Toppo?
     
  23. MShadows Deathbat Moderator

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    It's implied the GoDs of the exempt universes might be stronger than the ones of the participating universes as they boasted about their superiority.

    But other than that, yeah. Pretty much what you wrote.
     
  24. Claudio Swiss Well-Known Member

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    Something like that
    Even if you don't buy Belmond>beerus nothing implies beerus is far above the rest as champa is shown to be his equal
    Also the exempt god's could be stronger but it's unknown
    So its kinda like Belmond>=beerus=champa?the rest>toppo
     
  25. WorldsStrongest Genius, Billionaire, Playboy, Philanthropist

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    Yeah the only thing even close to definitive that we have thus far is Belmod > Beerus = Champa > The rest of the seated GoDs > Toppo

    Tho honestly it might be just Belmod > The rest as i cant really recall anything that puts Beerus in some higher level than the other GoDs in the anime. Tho in the manga there is.
    Im not sure about this

    This could have just been them all being assured of their higher mortal level, and we know mortal level doesnt necessarily correlate to power level.
     
  26. Claudio Swiss Well-Known Member

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    That may be true however we know going by the movie synapses that are stronger fighters yet be seen in other universes possibly in the exempt ones and the exempt god's weren't stunned by Goku and jiren battle
     
  27. WorldsStrongest Genius, Billionaire, Playboy, Philanthropist

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    I must have missed this then

    Where was this stated/shown?
    They were all pretty impressed with it throughout tho

    Gin at one point states that Goku and Jirens fight is "worth watching" and i think U1s Supreme Kai and one of the exempt GoDs praises the Genki Dama...And both of these statements were pre UI in 109 :catshrug

    All of the GoDs are also floored when Goku uses UI for the first time, and then theres the standing ovation he gets from literally every GoD present when he masters it.

    Safe to say all the GoDs were pretty impressed with Jiren and Gokus powers.
     
  28. Reznor Well-Known Member Administrator

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    Vegetto wasn't surpassed

    Merged Zamasu isn't really consistent enough to argue one way or the other
     
  29. KennethLT Well-Known Member

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    Vegito was surpassed. The manga only mentions vegito POSSIBLY being above beerus, while the anime has no such statements.
     
  30. Fang Well-Known Member

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    Anat wasn't overwhelmed by what he saw from Jiren and Goku each time the latter got stronger with UI. :hm
     
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