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Bankai (may contain spoilers)

Discussion in 'Bleach' started by Narutomasterfan71, Nov 27, 2005.

  1. Narutomasterfan71

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    I have a serious concern....HOW EASY IS IT TO ACHEIVE BANKAI, from what i here it took Ichigo nearly 3 days and it almost killed him, and that it takes 10 years to master it, and you have to have it to be a captain. I don't know about Ichigo cause he is the main character and therefore should be special, but people like Ikkaku shouldn't even be in the running. For one he is not even a lieutenant and i bet yachiro doesn't even have hers. If this is the pattern thats going why dont you just give Rukia a bankai,Rangiku (the girl with the huge titty's, sorry if i spelled name wrong) and any other supporting characters.
     
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  2. Asmodeus

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    While I can understand (and somewhat, I suppose, appreciate the concern), it's not really that out of line with the history of the Bleachverse (love that word).

    One of the requirements to become a captain is to be able to achieve Ban Kai, which means at multiple times throughout the history of Soul Society, there have always been non-captain types who have Ban Kai. Kenpachi doesn't, but his Reiatsu is so absurdly high that it doesn't really bother him. Ikkaku was known to be at the level of Vice Captain, which is suprising Ichigo beat him easier than Renji, except Renji was, when Ichigo fought him, literally hours away from having his Ban Kai.

    Having Ban Kai doesn't mean you are at captain level (hence why Byakuya dusted Renji so easily), it means you are still pretty powerful and have obtained the highest level of communication with your Zanpakutou. I'm actually expecting Rangiku (and someone else possible) to have achieved it as well, otherwise they won't be able to fill the empty Captain's Chairs.
     
  3. shlikah

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    how many topics do you need for an answer ? :D
    anyway weird thing is that in the fight against ichigo, rukia's brother says that only the people in the noble families can achieve bankai exept 1 person every *put a long period here*. now we have ichigo.. renji... ikaku.. and why are there 12 captain + commander (therefore at least 12 bankai).. so does that mean they are all in one of those 4 noble families?
     
  4. ShuiMei

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    Why is everyone making it such a big deal that Ikkaku has acheived Ban Kai? A third-seat in the insanely strong 11th Division, where he couldn't be VC even if he was VC-level, I wasn't really surprised at all. There had to be a reason why Ikkaku was selected from Soul Society to go to the living world, achieving his Ban Kai could be one of them.

    It's not like everyone and their dog has started whipping out their Ban Kai, really the only people who aren't captains who have achieved Ban Kai in the duration of this series are Renji, Ichigo, and now Ikkaku. If EVERYONE starts Ban Kai'ing it up then I'd say you'd have basis for complaint.

    Plus, as Byakuya demonstrated in his fight with Renji, it's not enough to have achieved Ban Kai, you still have to master it, and none of those three have come close (I'm assuming on Ikkaku's half).
     
  5. Scared Link

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    Well, maybe is that only Captains achieve bankai yet a 3rd seated officer does before the captain. Have you ever thought of that?
     
  6. Code

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    Captains only achieve bankai? Dont' you have to have bankai before you become a Captain? So that means that in the history of Soul Society, aside from Kenpachi, only Vice-Captains and below have achieved Bankai. Ikkaku is already Vice-Captain level. Simply compare him to other 3rd Seats, and the fact that he himself fought a long battle with a Vice-Captain that only ended because it was interrupted.
     
  7. ShuiMei

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    That shouldn't matter, Kenpachi's a beast, he doesn't need Ban Kai.

    Also with that logic, no one in the 11th division should have Shi Kai because their captain hasn't even achieved Shi Kai. Hell, he doesn't even know his Zanpaktou's name, so I guess they shouldn't know the name of their Zaptaktous either.
     
  8. Scared Link

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    Yes, thats true. Also Ikkaku show's off his shikai, which is rather strange. Before he does his bankai he says " Please dont tell anyone... BAN KAI"
    He doesn't say "dont tell anyone" when he uses shikai. I wonder why he doesnt say that...
     
  9. Manetheren

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    I believe this was actually saying

    Even out of the noble families, it is rare and notable for someone to have the strength to achieve Bankai.

    Just because they are the "Noble Families" doesnt mean they are always the strongest ones.
     
  10. me_is_david

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    Shikai is a norm, if you cant use a Shikai then you suck if you're a high seated officer. Bankai is a great achievement, Shikai is a thing you should be able to do.

    I don't see the point you're getting at with this lol.
    Ikkaku is clearly a VC level but likes his division and doesn't want to leave it like Iba did, Yumichika is also VC or close to VC level.
    It's not a big deal at all, I don't see what all the talk is about that Ikkaku can have a bankai.
    He is the ONLY person in the 11th division to have one, that we know of, although chances are he is the only one.
    When he says "don't tell anyone" he probably wants to keep it a secret and such. I really can't explain it but it doesn't mean much really.
    "He is 3rd seat so that automatically makes him weak and should not be able to have bankai" thats basically the logic I see from the people that say its dumb for Ikkaku to have reached bankai.
    Like I said before, if the weaker VC's achieved bankai out of nowhere then thats when you can call bullshit.
    But so far, from what we have seen, the strongest VC (Renji) has a bankai, not farfetched, and a guy who is probably stronger than most VC's (Ikkaku)
    Aside from those two there really isn't many other people who they can have reach bankai since they haven't showed the other's shikai too much.

    Don't you agree it would be boring for no one else to reach bankai in the entire series?
    I ask the people who think its stupid for Ikkaku to get bankai this: Who do YOU think should have been next to achieve BanKai?
    As for me, I would have said Ikkaku.
     
  11. Sol

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    I initially thought that bankai takes 10 years for one to master it, but when I re-read the fight between Byakuya and Renji, Byakuya has mentioned that one has to practise bankai for 10 years to be able to fully utilise its power, and not needing ten years to achieve ban kai. So, I suppose achieving ban kai for a shinigami isn't that difficult, it just learning how to control and use it. I hope this clears up matters. :)
     
  12. TEK

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    I think achieving bankai is difficult. Only certain shinigamis will have that potential. Ikkaku probably has always had the potential but it was sped up thanks to Ichigo. Ichigo's abilities includes his powerful reiatsu that is so powerful that it leaks out and gives others powers, as in the case with Chad and Inoue. So it is not unlikely that Ichigo's powers helped Ikkaku to learn bankai a bit sooner than he was meant to.
     
  13. Viciousness

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    ^ I agree, its not easy. Only the toughest and top VCs will have it as well as all of the captains. Ikkaku has it because were he in another division he would be among the top VCs more than likely, plus he comes from what seems to be the division with the biggest emphasis on fighting, and hes either second or 3rd to Kenpachi in power for the 11th division. I seriously doubt those VCs Ichigo floored with one hit were capable of Bankai with the possible exception of the 1st division guy, mainly because he looks old and youd expect him to be strong. Mayuri's VC almost definately doesnt have it. Iba may have recently gained it as well since Ikkaku did. Tousen's VC didnt seem to have it but perhaps, since he was drained in that fight and really never went all out. Gin's VC didnt seem to have it and hinamori and matsumoto Im pretty sure dont either (imagine if Rangiku's breasts got even bigger for hers..itd be the ultimate defense even better than Gaara's!!) Kaien didnt seem to have it. And since Zaraki doesnt Im guessing Yachiru doesnt know hers either, otherwise Zaraki would be harassing her for advice or something.

    So Im guessing theres about 15 people from SS who can use it (not including those who left along time ago like Yachiru, Urahara, Isshin etc) the captains minus Kenpachi, Renji, Ikkaku, and perhaps Iba or the 1st division guy.
     
  14. jonat3

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    Yoruichi stated that even the strongest guys need 10 years to gain bankai. Byakuya stated it took 10 years to master bankai.

    I believe Ikkaku already trained for the necesary 10 years to gain bankai. Since he's been hiding it, it might even be possible he had already had it when he fought Ichigo.
     
  15. Kahlua2606

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    I think the problem people have, myself included, is not that Ikkaku is now busting out the Ban Kai, but it's the timing. Renji, Ichigo and Ikkaku one after the other and all at once. Ban Kai was spoken of as this pinnicle of achievement, in fact it was said that only once every few generations does a person acheive Ban Kai, and now three people have acheived it in a very short period of time. I understand that more people have to acheive Ban Kai eventually, but if this becomes a case of the main characters all getting Ban Kai, then Ichigo will have to reach new levels to stay on top, and it will become a DBZ type series.
     
  16. jonat3

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    That's why i think that Ikkaku already had bankai, even before he fought Ichigo. The timing would be more realistic that way and another thing is that Kubo loves to put past chapters in a new light.
     
  17. Aertea

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    It doesn't bother me so much that the main characters are achieving Bankai so rapidly. Honestly I was suprised to see people were actually upset about it.

    I kind of figured Ikkaku already had it before that issue came out, he seemed much stronger then the majority of the other shinigami.

    I believe Rukia already has hers as well, since they said her skill was at the level of a captain. The only reason she wasnt a captain was because of her brother.

    Also, from the appearence of Soul Society, it seemed like it had been moderately peaceful for a very long time. It's quite possible (and logical) to assume that there wasnt a demand for so many overly powerful shinigami, and the ones that were achieving it, were doing so on their own, for personal reasons.

    With the current situation (Brink of war), I'd imagine soul society is trying encourage the learning of Bankai. You know, "Drastic times call for drastic measures."

    For these reasons I can understand a few more characters reaching this level.
     
  18. arcticphoenix16

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    remember that ikkaku has been living/training alot longer than rukia has, and even rukia is 150 years old. Just think how long ikkaku has been training. What's 20 years compare to how long a shinigami usually lives? besides, yumi even said that ikkaku is the second strongest man in the 11th division, he getting bankai is completely logical.

    also, according to the whole soul recycling between human world and soul society, we can see that there are at least the same number of souls in SS as in human world. What's the population of human world? 6 billion? We can easily assume that there are at least a billion souls in SS. And let's say that the shinigami requirement is strict, only 1/1000 have the ability to become shinigami. So there are one million shinigamis out of the billion souls. You have to remember that the story is focused on THE BEST OF THE DEATH GODS. Gotei 13 is at the VERY TOP of all the shinigami. If someone achieves bankai, it's gotta be from the top, hence vice captions. When ichigo surprises byakuya with his bankai, byakuya was still viewing ichigo as a commoner; at that time, byakuya wasn't even acknowledging that ichigo is a death god, of course he's going to be surprised that ichigo has bankai.

    also remember that even normal humans are affected by ichigo's power that leaks out constantly, and it seems to be related to how close you are to ichigo, which explains why ichigo's friends are the first to gain powers. Same thing can be applied to death gods. Out of all the death gods in SS, renji, rukia, and ikkaku are obviously the closest to ichigo, notice the huge power boost in all of them?
     
  19. mmzrmx

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    Rukia's skill was that of a seated officer, not a captain. So maybe not even a vice but we really don't know(prob atleast low VC strength). Far as Ikkaku goes I think it's cool he has bankai. He is a fight loving character that wants to get stronger, and he works well with his soul slayer. Him being a third seat doesn't really matter at all when he seems to be stronger then most VC's, he just a lower rank due to his loyalty to his division.
     
  20. Shishou

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    Actually... Bankai is achieved quite quickly.

    Look at Renji, once he was able to summon his zanpakutou out, he was able to achieve Bankai in a couple hours.


    Ichigo took 3 days, but his was a different Method.



    It would seem, once you are capable of summoning your zanpakutou out, you can achieve it. But as Byakuya said, it takes many years to use it's full potential/power.
     
  21. Mori`

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    Yes it would appear that gaining materialization is the part of ban kai that takes the longest period of time. I believe Ikkaku was at this stage when he faced Ichigo, pretty much the same as Renji.

    (and don;t be surprised when Rangiku busts out a ban kai)
     
  22. Negative-Ion

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    All this bankai timing just means that, there is another greater power than Bankai and inorder to atleast go againts it, some shinigamis need to have their Ban kai. Bleach has reached the point where Bankai is a high level skill that cant win you a battle anymore, that means a higher skill will soon be developed because Ban Kai isnt enough.

    This is all due to the new outcast breed that Ichigo is part of and that Aizen is leader of. Its a theme a lot of mangas have, so it shouldnt be surprising. Ban Kai couldnt possibly be the 1 and only high level skill, so inorder to introduce a newer skill, Bankai has to be acheiveable to atleast more than some select few captain rank shinigamis.
     
  23. Gunners

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    I agree with negative-ion, it is the inevitable that new power up will be introduced. When so called powerful power ups become common another is introduced to take the shine of the first one. ( ssj1-ssj3, 1 tail to 2 tail etc.)
     
  24. me_is_david

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    eh well Rangiku having bankai would be kinda unreasonable lol.
    I say this because we don't even know what her Shikai does. So if they have her get a bankai..that'd be kinda dumb lol.
    At least with Ikkaku and Renji we knew pretty much what they're shikai did. Although with this logic the only ones we can really say would get a bankai are Kira, Yumichika, or Hinamori.

    I would've said Hisagi Shuuhei to be the next to get bankai since he is one of the stronger ones but we don't even know his shikai, or even his swords name so he's out of the question lol.
     
  25. blazingshadow

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    bleach was a DBZ type of series all along. you just didn't want to notice it because you like it anyways.

    about ichigo leaking power and making others stronger i believe that is bull. kenpachi has a lot more reiatsu leaking out than ichigo and you don't see anybody talking about how strong they got because of him. unless you want to think that ikkaku got his bankai because of both ichigo and kenpachi's reiatsu this statement is obviously wrong.
     
  26. Negative-Ion

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    its cuz ichigo has an abnormal reiatsu, being somekinda shinigami hollow breed and what not.
     
  27. Jack Bauer

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    One of the reasons why Ichigo oculd achieve Ban Kai was because he had an enormous amount of reiatsu. Plus the way he achieved Ban Kai was the same as Urahara even though Urahara said Ichigo's potential is more than his.

    Actually it doesn't bother me that Ikkaku achieved Ban Kai since he is a supporting character but I think Kubo Tite is also giving them their big break. This doesn't mean that EVERYONE has Ban Kai, I'm just saying that certain characters in the manga and anime were able to achieve it because of their roles i.e. Ikkaku having his important fight with Edorad (the Arrancaru) and Rukia killing that weird head shape guy.

    I think in the long run there will be a Ban Kai Lvl 2 so dont be surprised
     
  28. blazingshadow

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    ppl can have more than one bankai. after all bankai means full release but it doesn't say you can't have more than one kind of bankai. like byakuya all the elite will get more than 1 bankai form and ichigo will get more out of his sword eventually along with becoming a hybrid
     
  29. Nakor

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    ^ yea i agree. instead of another release, i think the elite should just get new bankai that is either an improvement on their previous one or one that is alittle more powerful.

    how would they make another level higher than bankai when bankai means full release?
     
  30. Code

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    Well I believed otherwise, until Yoruichi outright stated that it was a requirement (from what I recall.)
     
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