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Banning Mael/Tone Policing in the Cafe

Discussion in 'Questions & Complaints' started by baconbits, Dec 28, 2016.

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  1. baconbits Moderator

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    I'm not seeing an adequate response to my commentary so I'd like an explanation as to why @Mael was banned. A post was linked that was extremely tame compared to most of what is allowed in the Cafe and in my opinion only raised more questions. If that post is the reason @Mael was banned the decision should be immediately overturned.

    This decision raised larger questions about attempting to police tone in the Cafe. I truly don't understand the attempt to do this. Just as the Blender is a unique area allowed to be more insulting in their ratings than the rest of the forum the Cafe is a unique are that is much more confrontational than other parts of the forum. This is simply part of the culture and there's nothing right or wrong about it. It simply is. That said attempting to remove what simply is creates problems and doesn't solve anything. Most of the veteran posters would rather the mods focus on modding issues like personal insults against family members, direct racist insults, threats against other users, straight up flaming and posting op-eds as if they were articles. In general most other commentary should be acceptable.

    For example I respect @Gunners and @Seto Kaiba immensely, but both tend to insult a lot when they debate. I don't necessarily like this. But I don't think any mod should try to stop this behavior. I think there should be some leeway between what you may like to experience and what should be allowed. And in my opinion many of Mael's posts fall into that gap between "wouldn't like to experience" but also "should be allowed".

    I would like to see the mods and admins allow us to discuss this issue directly. I feel that trying to ban people who are important parts of the Cafe can create additional problems the staff can't anticipate. I'm normally a calm poster and I think I can speak for most other posters and staff members alike when I say I create few problems. But to me this is an issue that angers me and makes me resent the way the forum is being run.

    On the other side of this issue is @mr_shadow . Opinions on his and @Amanda 's style of modding are quite diverse. I personally have no issue with them in general and believe they've been a positive upgrade for the Cafe, however when I have had issues with them its always been on their attempts to police tone rather than simply worrying about flaming and rule breaking. I'd like to get many of the regular posters' opinion on this issue as well, folks as diverse as @Chie and @ZeroTheDestroyer , @HolyHands , @afgpride , @Flow , @makeoutparadise and many others who post in the Cafe regularly.

    tl;dr: Mael shouldn't have been banned and trying to police tone causes more problems than it solves in the Cafe.
     
  2. Flow King of the Cafe

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    The fact that you had to tag a blatant troll Chie, Zero, and myself to this thread shows the forum regulars in this café section has seriously declined considering the latter two have a huge negative history with Mael.

    I'll try to be as neutral as possible:

    In regards with the Café policy, I don't really have an issue with mr_shadow or how he's been modding except some questionable situations such as the Café section itself not being moved up higher to where it used to be, folks like @ZeroTheDestroyer, @Thorin or others getting away with saying some heinous crap or trolling in general but others being warned or banned for less.

    I feel like he's toned down initially from when he first got control of this section due to the amount of hate he was getting.

    In regards with Mael (again being neutral), he had gotten warned and banned numerous times. He has shown he is inable to learn from his behavior (cussing people out, making personal insults, etc). The problem with him being banned for the post that mr_shadow pointed out however was that it really wasn't worst than what others say around the section at times. He could had easily just waited for him to flip out on someone like he always does and then go for the perm ban.

    For the record if someone says "You're being a fucking idiot", and the post provides no other substance that should obviously be punishable and discouraged. But saying someone is being idiotic and providing reasoning behind the post itself is a tough thing to moderate. What one person finds offensive, others might not. You can't really thought control individuals.

    At the end of the day, rules exist for a reason. There won't be a perfect system, and people are going to slither around them or try to find loop-holes. In this situation though, I don't think there should be that huge of a public out-cry and say that as neutral as I could.

    I mean, seriously I'll ask again lol, was someone reporting him? I just find it odd how out of all the crap people have said here, he's the one that got the hammer for THAT specific post. Jumped the gun way too fast imo for that situation.. @mr_shadow, you don't have to say the name but if you could provided reasoning behind the focus on him I think you could release a little bit of the hate off yourself.
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2016
  3. Lucaniel non serviam

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    man this one's a toughie cuz mael is a really bad poster and the cafe is a better place without him but i feel like nf should have basically no rules prohibiting flaming cuz it's more fun than way

    so i'm in two minds
     
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  4. Pharah 「 Fly Casual 」

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    "tone policing"

    loloololololololololololol
     
  5. Pharah 「 Fly Casual 」

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    >People still asking this after shadow already explained it wasn't because of the individual post

    You guys truly do belong alongside the OBD.
     
  6. Pharah 「 Fly Casual 」

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    Made it bigger this time, because apparently everyone in the Cafe needs to get their eyes checked.
     
  7. aiyanah finesse

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    unless he's permbanned i cant see this mattering enough for any discussion to be had
    if he is permbanned then you aint getting discussion tbf
     
  8. Dream fallen prince Administrator

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    I've alerted the Cafe staff and will let them have the first shot at answering your concerns and queries.
     
  9. Pharah 「 Fly Casual 」

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    According to what shadow said, he's just permed from the Cafe. So just a section perm.
     
  10. Seto Kaiba God Hand Crusher

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    Shadow himself has more or less admitted he was full of shit on it, he just won't take it back out of some bullshit preemptive notion Mael will eventually do something worth the perm.

    I'm tired of the guy, like so many of the other staff. They just nominate those to continue to kiss each other's asses, and not anyone competent these days.
     
  11. Pharah 「 Fly Casual 」

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  12. aiyanah finesse

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    lol that this is a thing

    is mael invariably heading towards a section perm?
    perhaps we should ask @Mael himself

    feel you been wronged here or are you more surprised by how long it took for staff to catch you out?
     
  13. aiyanah finesse

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    do we police by tone now?
    fascinating
     
  14. aiyanah finesse

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    if i can manifest enough killing intent for moody i can get permed
     
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  15. Seto Kaiba God Hand Crusher

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    Mael has a temper, but unless shadow is omniscient and has proof of this omniscience, he has no leg to stand on. He's just trying to avoid the obvious that he modded based on his personal sensibilities once again, specifically because he didn't like the person, tone of their post and/or politics.
     
  16. Pharah 「 Fly Casual 」

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    Hey, Luc has been perm-banned from the Chatterbox for a while.


    Just like his antics with underage women, he always embraced his bans as a way of standing out. Badges of honor for calling people out and such. Never apologized, or felt he did anything wrong.
     
  17. Pharah 「 Fly Casual 」

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    Hell, the first thing he did after a long ban when coming back - literally first day - was repeatedly call a black member he disagreed with a "nigger" just to try and get under his skin :skully
     
  18. Seraphiel Eastern European Sex Genocide

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    soon it will be Seto's turn.
     
  19. Mider T VM Rapist

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    Hilarious.
     
  20. Atlas .

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    Bring back MegaHarrison to make the Cafe great again.
     
  21. Flow King of the Cafe

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    Nah, hell no. In the end he was modding out of his emotions.
     
  22. Pharah 「 Fly Casual 」

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    Mega would've just done it sooner.
     
  23. Pharah 「 Fly Casual 」

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    Actually wait, yeah, bring back Mega.
     
  24. Seto Kaiba God Hand Crusher

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    He has tried.
     
  25. Mider T VM Rapist

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  26. mr_shadow Minister of State Security Moderator

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    While Seto is often a pain in the butt, his offensiveness usually comes with some sort of argument or contribution to the debate. His ad hominems are also mostly targeted at things people can control, such as their political views or religion, and not things beyond their control like their nationality or race.
     
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  27. Pharah 「 Fly Casual 」

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    Damn, not even 30 posts in and we're into conspiracy theories.

    That's supposed to be my gag.
     
  28. baconbits Moderator

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    Is somebody going to address my concerns or will this go ignored?
     
  29. Toby Detective Dollars Advisor

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    We are discussing this in the mod section.

    I appreciate Bacon's articulate OP, clear definition of what he thinks is wrong and his clear proposals on how to fix this. It's really fresh air on this forum to see someone who can point out what they think is wrong and give a clear alternative solution to fix it.
     
  30. Toby Detective Dollars Advisor

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    BTW I just noticed this thread in passing

    If you want me, amanda, shadow or another mod to look at this, please just tag them in the future @baconbits
     
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