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Base Ywhach takes on his Elites opponents

Discussion in 'Bleach' started by Ejenku, Oct 5, 2019.

  1. Ejenku

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    The quincy god in same situations that his Elite were in. No heals. Can he defeat all the shinigami?

    Bonus round

    Vs Soul society in the first quincy invasion. He fights everyone alone.
     
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  2. Final Fantasy

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    Ywhach would probably body anyone due to the medallion
     
  3. Millón Vasto

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    ok same situation.

    Shunsui gets an big hairy arm shoved through his body, bankai or no bankai

    Mayuri gets an arm shoved through his body, nemu gets bodied even if her strength matches ywach, sankt altar, blute vene anhaben, sklaverei means gg.

    Urahara is kinda fast, i mean it was shown in fkt but its even solidified after a stat boosting bankai, so I don’t really see urahara getting blitzed But Sankt Altar litterally is medallion without medallion, kinda makes me think ywach modeled medallion after his sankt altar. Sankt Altar is GG bankai.

    yoruichi in her cat form is really just a quick melee brawler u gotta ask yourself if she can blitz ichibei because stats wise, that is where ywach lies, but even then blute vene angaben is like the perfect fucking counter for this if speed oroves too
    much and then there is the whole “weaker then shinigami lv sizen reiatsu hardcap, but sables kinda explained that the novel is a clusterfuck” so i really wouldnt use that as a hard supporting argument but interesting to mention till i read the novel.

    Sankt Altar is broken.

    Kenpach can rip of gerards arm with his mouth, Ywach who is generally pegged as yamamoto strength+ is kinda biting more then he can chew.

    ^ (use bro) goes Sankt Altar immeadatly followed by sankt swinger, he better not try this blute vene anhaben throat crush thing.

    byakuya is fodder, ywach shoves another hairy arm,

    Toshiro is bassically a special attack monster in his adult form. His ice can stop hax to some extent if it manages to freeze shit. But he better not try to melee ywach, unless he wants that large reishi broadsword. but as usual sankt altar will prove bitch also his shikai hyoketsu is 4 secs so ywach could spam sanktbogen too.
     
  4. Adamant soul

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    Same situation means he's just fighting the groups who fought against an Elite, not all of them at once? And Base Yhwach, meaning no Almighty?

    Fight 1) Lord Moustache vs Captain Mayuri Kurotsuchi and Lieutenant Nemu Kurotsuchi

    Moustache stomps

    Fight 2) Lord Moustache vs Captain Commander Shunsui Kyouraku

    Moustache Stomps

    Fight 3) Lord Moustache vs Kisuke Urahara, Youichi Shihouin, Kukaku Shiba, Grimmjow Jaegerjaques and Nelliel Tu Odelschvank

    Arrancars gets wrecked in the crossfire while the Exiles actually put up a fight but ultimately get put down. There's an off chance Kisuke could use the numbers to pull some bullshit so Moustache wins 7/10

    Fight 4) Lord Moustache vs Captain Toshiro Hitsugaya, Captain Byakuya Kuchiki and Captain Kenpachi Zaraki

    Adult Hitsugaya and Bankai Kenpachi are easily the closest of anyone here to being a threat to Moustache (at least in terms of raw power anyway). The problem is I'm given to understand the former takes time to achieve and I don't see Moustache getting tagged by a Bankai swing from Kenpachi (thus he would only succeed in hurting himself) unless Adult Hitsugaya manages to freeze him.

    Moustache wins 9/10
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2019
  5. Source of Hate

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  6. Ejenku

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    I forgot to ban bankai stealing.
     
  7. Source of Hate

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    It makes little difference if he still has Sankt Altar.
     
  8. Nevan

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    Might lose to Gerard's oponents and Askin's if Ichigo counts.

    Should stomp the other 2.
     
  9. Ejenku

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    Ichigo was fodder at that time. Yhwach kills him before he goes bankai again.
     
  10. Source of Hate

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    No
     
  11. Ejenku

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    Base askin defeated him.
     
  12. Daio

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    Via hax and tbh that was CIS as Ichigo could have oneshotted him if he wanted to.
     
  13. Source of Hate

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    Inb4 Yoruichi's brother > EoS Ichigo
    Askin is hax. RG Ichigo left FGT Ichigo behind in the dirt
     
  14. Ejenku

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    I agreed but again before he fought Soul king Ywhach he was a Cis ridden fodder. So if he fought any version of the true Ywhack he'd die. And hax can be defeated by power as we saw plenty of times in that arc.
     
  15. Source of Hate

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    The Ichigo that fought Yhwach and the Ichigo that lost to Askin are the same

    This is Base Yhwach, the one that got slapped by Ichibei. If Yhwach beats Ichigo, it's not via raw power at all. Not even close. Not even Shikai Ichigo.

    Did we?
     
  16. Ejenku

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    Byakuya bypassed the fear and love. Ichigo later vs. Yhwack when he killed him. Kenpachi vs. Gremmy,Mask vs. Vaizards, Renji vs. Mask. Shinji vs. Bomber chick, Come to mind the most.
     
  17. Source of Hate

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    In none of those fights is there ever an instance where raw power brushed away a hax ability
     
  18. lol 4th dimension reiatsu

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    EoS Ichigo did face this version of Ywach and he was at best equal to him, as well as being put on a difficult fight by Askin.

    That Ichigo is nowhere near the Ichigo that defeated Aizen in FKT or Ywach in the end

    Only Zaraki and Hitsugaya have a chance to win, and that is if we assume Ywach can't steal their powers because the medallion couldn't.
     
  19. Source of Hate

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    He faced Almighty Yhwach and then SK Yhwach. Never Base Yhwach.

    He is stronger than FGT. Yhwach precisely says that Ichigo regained the level of power he had used to defeat Aizen in order to kill the Soul King. What's more, in the actual final fight, Ichigo displays even more power, this time taking a physical form, upon which Yhwach comments. This is all Shikai, no horn.

    Even Aizen, while sealed presumably to a 15%(only 3 seals out of 20 removed) of his default form power(because we don't know if the Hogyoku still allows him other forms), displayed far more power than his pre-timeskip forms. And you think Ichigo in either of his forms got left behind to be an absolute fodder to Aizen? no no no
     
  20. lol 4th dimension reiatsu

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    Allmighty is never stated to increase Ywach's physical stats.

    This is a misunderstanding caused by the Trashtream scans being dirt tier.


    There is no mention of any determined power level, Ywach is talking bout his shinigami powers in general, that's why the manga has Ginjo's face right there to give context to the dialogue.

    The point is that all of the battles Ichigo went trough in order to increase his power, then becoming a normal human, then regaining his powers again was all to help Ywach, because in his crazy mind everything a Quincy is or does is mean to help him attain his objectives.

    From the very begging, there's no way to explain why EoS Ichigo would be dramatically stronger than Dangai since both versions of the character are using the exact same amount of the exact same power source.

    I mean, Aizen at a much, much lower reiatsu level was able to lol nope the Kototsu, the third most broken thing in the entire manga, but Ichigo is supposed to be even slightly inconvenienced by a simple Elite Sternritter?
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2019
  21. KisaitaParadise

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    Aizen is probably the only one who can beat him:feelsgoodman
     
  22. Source of Hate

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    The Almighty gives a big "fuck you" to physical stats, hence Ichigo's level of power at the time being irrelevant

    Context matters. He is talking with respect to the "elevated power" that was used to defeat Aizen, losing it, then regaining it.

    Ginjo's face is plastered in the flashback because Ichigo's whole journey is relevant to the reacquisition of the subject power.

    It's not in his crazy mind because Ichigo did too kill the Soul King. The Almighty manipulates fate, including the actions of his Quincies and everyone else if he so wishes it.

    It's like you ignored Everything But the Rain. Dangai Ichigo had a fake Zanpakuto, a fraction of his real power as confirmed by Fake Zangetsu, and all Ichigo'd done is fucking Jinzen.




    Dude step back for a minute and look at that:


    fucking Jinzeeeeeen


    Standard Shinigami training vs a super exclusive augmented upgrade from a realm beyond Shinigamis rolled up into a plot origins revelation.

    Your whole argument barely balances itself on your underestimation of the capabilities of the Sternritters' broken hax, which have no relation to the energy levels of their opponents in any logical or supported manner.
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2019
  23. lol 4th dimension reiatsu

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    It had nothing to do with Ywach reacting and stopping his blade with his own power.

    Ywach says Ichigo recovered the power he lost from defeating Aizen while showing Ginjo, so no.

    No, Allmighty has never manipulated other people's actions, what caused Ichigo to kill the king was Ywach's reiatsu. What is crazy is Ywach belief that all Quincy are nothing but tools, that's why he is saying this whole keikaku bullshit to Ichigo.

    Dangai Ichigo was using 100% of his Hollow and Shinigami power as represented by Kid Zangetsu and the Hollow fusing into a single spirit, the oposite makes no sense knowing of Zangetsu's goals.
    -Protect Ichigo at all cost
    -Make it so Ichigo has to stop being a shinigami.

    At this point in time Zangetsu has no idea how strong Aizen is, witholding power from Ichigo (aside from impossible since he is working together with the Hollow) would be OOC

    All Ichigo got from the RG was a real Asauchi, to use that he needed to know the identity of his Zanpakuto, it's not some super upgrade exclusive for him.

    The Kototsu is a being composed entirely of condensed time, invulnerable to reiatsu based beings. Aizen killed it because he was tronger than anything that isn't an hybrid/hogyoku based monstrosity.

    Ichigo when he first got back from the royal guard doesn't have the feats to match Dangai, doesn't have any statement comparing him to Dangai, has no reason to be that powerful at all since is the exact same powersource but in Shikai and isn't even a transcendental being.

    He only starts being relevant after building up more power, awakening the Hollow and using Bankai.
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2019
  24. Source of Hate

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    It may look that way to the audience but Almighty shapes the timeline constantly. The fact that it was initially revealed as an ability that nulls every power Yhwach sees conveniently explains why Ichigo would never be able to hurt him no matter what he tried.
    I addressed this. Moving on
    Chapter618:"I can't make you do what I want? Don't make me laugh. Whether or not you'll do as I wish is up to these eyes of mine"
    Chapter 619:"Ichigo, I've never thought about making you do what I want...Beacuse I didn't have to."
    There you have it

    Yhwach's Reiatsu, given via Almighty, forced Ichigo to kill the Soul King. But the act of grabbing the sword in the first place was something that Ichigo was fated to do, whether or not Yhwach needed the Almighty for it to happen.
    And yet he gives Ichigo the ability to rid himself of all of his powers? Zangetsu's motivations are vague enough that it could contradict any of his actions throughout the series if taken at face value. It works against your argument just as well. Context matters.
    Chapter 541: "Ichigo, what you've been using is merely a fragment of your power that I could not contain. You can now fight with your own power. Take it. That is your true Zanpakuto."
    Everyone likes to shit on the RG but it was explained that the Royal Realm and its palaces are of such superior atmosphere compared to SS that the mere act of eating and resting up there powers up the guests passively. Even quotes like "Reiatsu of a whole new dimension" are reiterated in Hikifune's palace. And Ichigo didn't just get a new Asauchi: he got a real Zanpakuto, for the first and only time, that late in the game. He used a dupe against Aizen.

    I repeat, the only preparation Ichigo had to face Aizen, is plain old generic Jinzen. It's ridiculous to compare from a story standpoint, even if you ignore statements.
    And that's fine for the specific feat but it's not proof for every power. There are so many examples where hax trumps power that it would just be outright ridiculous for me to start listing them. You know it. Everybody knows it.
    Addressed above
    This is just pure BS. Not only because it's not true, but because you don't even specify the context. Ichigo is both the mixture of every being and stands above Kenpachi, whose Reiatsu can't be felt by his squad without his eyepatch. Or so the Special War Powers list goes.
    Great look how funny your powerscaling looks:
    Bankai Ichigo
    SK Yhwach => Horned Shikai Ichigo
    Post Skip Aizen
    Sealed Post Skip Aizen
    Final Getsuga Tensho
    Dangai Ichigo
    Monster Aizen
    Butterlfyzen
    Hogyoku Aizen
    Condom Aizen
    Kenpachi somewhere along the way^
    Gerard somewhere along the way^
    Shikai Ichigo


    That is one damn bigass ass asshole of a goddamn multi-tier jumping ass power up that the horn grants Ichigo, wouldn't you say? It's cute, but not plausible.
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2019
  25. lol 4th dimension reiatsu

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    We literally see how Ywach stopped those attacks, there's none of allmighty's jumps.

    Moving on nothing you fidnt adress shit.

    Ywach NEVER said anything about Ichigo gaining his Dangai powerlevel.

    The reiatsu wasnt given troug allmighty and the whole fate talk is Ywach talking crazy shit.

    The mean is irrelevant if it lead to the same result, just like how people that wasnt trained by the RG was stronger than them.

    What Ichigo was using so far wasnt that diferent from one of Oetsu' s Asauchi.

    Ichigo' reiatsu can be sensed up until he uses Bankai against Ywach.

    Thats what the manga shows, the base Ichigo from the final fight is the first time he unleashes his real power (because is only there that his reiatsu starts to become visible and Ywach first takes him as a serious opponent) and then stacks the Hollow power up on top on that, by itself that might be as powerful as a normal Bankai.

    Tensa Zangetsu is the strongest power type Bankai.
     
  26. Source of Hate

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    There doesn't have to be a "jump" to signify Almighty at work; only if Yhwach wants to flex. Look at Yhwach vs Ichibei: no "jumps", yet the future was rewritten.

    You yourself said Almighty doesn't grant stat boosts, and it's true. Stat boost is not included in any of Almighty's description, yet he physically demolished Ichibei when the latter was slapping the former before A.




    I'm not going to recycle paragraphs.


    "My Shrift is 'A the Almighty.' I see the future of everything. I take and give all powers. I can even give you my own spiritual pressure that dwells in my sword."

    That is still only Base(Shikai) Ichigo, he was just flexing his Reiatsu. It's still the same Ichigo that fought Askin off-panel.


    Bankai power varies between each wielder. This is not very specific.


    Obviously
     
  27. lol 4th dimension reiatsu

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    Allmighty did cause a jump to Ichibei being already killed.

    It's a concession then.

    He used the same thing against Ichibei before having allmighty.

    And in neither of those instances he is anywhere near as powerful as when he defeated Aizen

    Doesn't need to be specific, it means Ichigo becomes exponentially stronger just with the Hollow.
     
  28. Source of Hate

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    We saw Ichibei exploding into chunks, not instantly appearing dead such as when Ichigo'a Bankai instantly appeared broken. He also rewrote the effects of Ichibei's ritual so that it wouldn't do anything. He also made it so that Ichigo couldn't harm him. It's all the same.




    I'm not playing this game




    Doesn't matter. I showed you the quote, he did it via Almighty. I'm moving on.




    You're doing a very poor job at refuting anything. Moving on.




    I don't necessarily disagree with this.
     
  29. Daio

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    So, assuming Medallion and Sankt Altair are restricted and this is Yhwach before regaining his strength...

    1) Yhwach vs Mayuri and Nemu:

    Mayuri get blitzed and sliced in half. Even if Nemu awakens her true power she clearly has a time limit, so he should outlast her.

    2) Yhwach vs Shunsui and Nanao:

    Shunsui gets the Mayuri treatment and Nanao joins Harribel in Yhwach's basement.

    3) Yhwach vs Grimmjow, Chad, Orihime, Ichigo, Yoruichi, Yūshirō and Kisuke:

    They should take the win. Yhwach is not getting past Orihime's defence and Ichigo should be able to overwhelm and defeat Yhwach by himself.

    4) Yhwach vs Renji, Rukia, Shinji, Hachigen, Hiyori, Lisa, Byakuya, Toshirō and Zaraki:

    Ultimately, this will turn into Yhwach vs Zaraki and maybe Toshirō - if he gets to Full Maturity. Bankai Zaraki will completely dominate Yhwach and finally kill him. With Toshirō's assistance, it makes Yhwach's defeat even more certain.
     
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