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battle of the clans

Discussion in 'Naruto Battledome' started by Sasuke_Power, Oct 18, 2006.

  1. Butō Rengoob

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    very enlightened statement.....
     
  2. Sasuke_Power

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  3. Butō Rengoob

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  4. Sasuke_Power

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    .....................................hmm.. wonder wat happened to auxunauxia?
     
  5. Butō Rengoob

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    i think she doesn't like me...every time i get on she disappears.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2006
  6. Sasuke_Power

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    lol. she told me shes waiting for more ppl to post on this issue. try telling more ppl about this convo going on here and maybe she'll post here again with another intelligent statement
     
  7. Butō Rengoob

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    alright...i'll tell people about it...if i remember:laugh .
     
  8. AuxunauxiaNoname

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    Ookami-san, I don't dislike you! While it's true that you sometimes have different opinions than me on issues, that's just because you have different opinions. I respect you highly for your ability to express those thoughts with honesty.

    It'd be a boring world if everybody thought the same way... really.

    I'm sorry for the misunderstanding. I'm assuming from your statement that you're the person who gave me the neg rep... Eh, heheh... ^^;;

    -----

    So many things in life are really double sided coins. No one thing is all good, or all bad. The idea in cultures that women are for making babies...

    I almost wonder if Myst Village isn't the same...


    On one hand, this makes them invaluable assets. They're regarded as precious and to be protected at all costs.

    On the other hand, such a society inevitably then disapproves of many freedoms, because they might be harmful or stressing... etc.

    Poverty is also a double sided coin. On one hand, you don't have as much. On the other, you value much more that which you do have... like love, relationships... etc...

    On one hand, material wealth such as money becomes more important. You don't have that much, thus it becomes more valueable in the heart/mind. On the other hand this then makes you more motivated to do more in order to obtain even a bit of the desired wealth.

    The same thing's the case with the whole independence thing.

    They gain more strength in that ^creativity in jutsus, ^the possibility of creating stronger ones through experience... etc. Individualism, and freedom become much stronger in the people.

    But then on the other hand, people value society less. They don't care what other people think. They become less attentative to the possible harm of whatever actions they commit might cause the population at large, as long as their own satisfaction is met. More freedom... but less loyalty

    It's all a double-sided coin.
     
  9. Butō Rengoob

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    haha...nice text hiding.....yes i negrepped you but at least you said something to me....:) sorry...
     
  10. AuxunauxiaNoname

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    So I guessed right? Lolz... and I was worried that I'd gotten the wrong person... and then get another neg rep... That'd be such bad luck! rotadalolmafao

    No problem :hug

    ^_^ We're cool.

    If you ever feel like I'm not being a nice person or something again... just PM me. kk?

    *waits for Sasuke_Power to come back and post stuff*
     
  11. Sasuke_Power

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    Hello again everyone. To ikazuchi ookami I told u she doesnt hate u XP.

    and to Auxunauxia I really want to thank u for gracing this forums with your intelligent and logical posts :)

    OK more for the problem at hand

    You are once again right It is like a double sided coin. The village is very different from all the others in this aspect. This though keep in mind is not a bad thing necessarily. Its wat actually keeps a balance within the village. think of it like yin and yan. The to opppsites forces which swirl around eachother, push and pull, good and bad, creating a even balance. Unlike that of the Akatsuki Village (which one is that again?) who's main disires are of evils purposes. You see the Hidden Myst Village is driven through poverty, need for wealth (and to an extent respect and dont forget the goal thing i told u about) and Independence to do evil for one purpose TO SURVIVE. In the end this is the ultimate goal of the whole myst village. Because they know that they are a dying race. Unlike the konoha village and others which are able to choose when they want to have a baby. They have a good amount of wealth and plenty of resources from the environment. As i have said the island on which the Myst Tribe lives on is PLENTIFUL on resources BUT the overall stature of the environment is greatly weakened due to the fact that the myst tribe has probably over exasperated its resources. (this also brings up something very interesting which i would like to talk to u later on if we get to the sand tribe, for know there are still plenty of things i would like to touch on in the Myst village :) why not tell u a little though I speculate that the sand and water tribes could have once been one tribe living in the same region around the outer country of the Konoha village and then were driven off by some point leading one tribe to be driven out to sea and the other to be driven out to desert. DONT base me off of this quite yet though i still need more info and its just A THEORY which seems to make sense)
    Continuing survival is the goal probably imprinted in everyones mind in the water tribe whether aware of it or not.(its sad when u think about it, leading to kind of a "robotic" society) This is once again why export and import is such a important business for the water village. It is an outside resource, and tie AWAY from the normal struggle to survive, it is a piece of the outside world brought into a rather sad economy. It also gives them money, which is the next subject I would like to bring up. Competition for jobs, think of it, jobs to run the pier must be in high demand since it probably pays the most, how do you think they manage this system of work. I could imagine also the simple fighting over getting this type of job. So how do they decide who works? Work=good pay= LOTS of competition from a LIMITed market to a higher demand for more work. also i would like to touch on what weapons are used in each tribe after the work thing. hmm as for the loyallty thing, since individuals like wat haku was faking to be (if u remember) are created to collect the weak and dead ppl/ kill off traitors like zabuza, this is wat i think keeps traitors in check by instilling fear into them. Remember I told you that they have a "special ninja force" and thats it. Those are the only and few ninja they train to collect and gather the "unwanted" correct me if i am wrong on this :). Come to think of it i already started a post on weapons. hmm, touche
    OK. Waiting for u to reply again auxunauxia. :) and if u can add anything ikazuchi ookami then go right ahead. and to anyone else who has bothered to read any of this, feel free to put ur 2 sense into it also

    *to the forum(not auxunauxia or ikazuchi *- If u just want to post what village and clan u picked then go right ahead
    also i need to speak to u auxunauxia :amuse
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2006
  12. Butō Rengoob

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    oh...i never said you were a bad person( you're really nice) but it just seemed around the time i said my bit about neji's personality...you stopped talking to me....
     
  13. Sasuke_Power

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  14. Butō Rengoob

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    nothing much....
     
  15. Jio-Kun

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    i say that either the hyuga clan or the uchiha clan would win...more or less the uchiha..
     
  16. Butō Rengoob

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    well...the kaguya clan is by far the most powerful clan we've seen in the series.
     
  17. Sasuke_Power

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    hmm, u forget that convo thats going on. I still hold to and say that the Myst clan is most powerful> Reason> New jutsu creation/independent.
     
  18. Naruto_Rasengan_

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  19. successortt

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    I didnt feel like reading through the whole thread but yes economically the village hidden in the mist is probably the most powerful.
     
  20. Sasuke_Power

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  21. successortt

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    As far as military strength goes, Konoha was the strongest (atleast I think so) up until the sand and sound attacked them
     
  22. AuxunauxiaNoname

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    Hmm... Well if Sasuke_Power is right, then I'd expect the Myst Village to have a strong naval force. A) it's an island nation [kind of like Japan, ironically], B) the people are poor, and likely to want an 'out' and travel, i.e. work that involves traveling - trade - which leads to ships...



    Spoiler: economics and Naruto??


    The whole thing with Gato also makes me suspect that part of the problem of poverty in Myst is not necessarily due to 'not having much' (as in, not having much resources, or not having enough stuff obtained from trade), but more due to inequal distribution. Like for example people like Gato in Water country having all the money and poor ninjas in Myst Village having to practically starve to death.

    The theoretics behind that ^ is the topic of discussions of many a course on economics, politics, philosophy... you could write whole papers on it. :p

    Spoiler: general explanation

    There is an unlimited about of want for a limited amount of goods.

    In capitalism, material wealth generally flows

    from the people who obtain the raw material ->
    the people who create the final product ->
    the people who sell the final product.

    The people who sell the final product are usually the ones getting the most money, while the people who obtain the raw goods are the ones who get the least.

    And then there are the people who are hired to do odd jobs for all those along the spectrum.

    And that is the basis of service based economy.


    Interestingly enough service based economy seems rather similar to an economy where ninjas are hired to do practically everything.

    The amount of money people in the service industry get (ninjas), depends on a lot of different factors, but essentially the same factors that govern general service based economies...
     
  23. Sasuke_Power

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    Smartly said. I Go to college and i have done a 3 yeat course in anthropology so i know what ur talking about!!

    as for money hungry ppl like Gato, well that leads to a Tyranical (u now a tyranny) community when you think of it cuz gato is in charge + has all money. I HATE GATO. Zabuza should have killed him.
    as for the economics of the community, I imagine after gato dies or leaves his position of power the community of the poor myst village could probably grow. actually thx for pointing out gato cuz i almost forgot about him.
    hmm, lets see so ur saying the naval force is strong?? your right but i think gato controls the military cuz of money thus my theory still goes cargo is either protected from outside ninja who are hired, inside weak ninja force OR n a case of war then the naval base. Because of ppl like gato, (who u can compare to hitler except well he wasnt a war genius) a community is driven to the point of struggle and poverty thus the economy goes into a trough, or deeo depression do to bad economic standings. The poverty leads the myst village to collect inside resources thus resources are exasperated thus, the myst village is driven to harsh training of ninja, a creation of a non trust worthy "special force" (wat haku was pretending to be i forget what ther called") ninja who collect the remains of dead and traitoruis ninja, and hunt down traitoruis ninja. This will also lead to ninja going out on there own right when becoming a chuunin. its a very complicated system but it all makes sense.
    How do you think The country could get rid of gato when he has so much money that he could easily pay off whoever to protect him (as in the case with zabuza) OR use the naval force he has to blow out any questioning of his authority. How do you deal with a overly egotistical, bastard such as him??
    The economy would flourish i think after he goes but only after a revolution. remember, the old ways of thinking wont just dye cuz gato has gotten rid of. The independent factor and the no loyalty factor will always remain. Thats just how the Myst Village ninja are, they strive for power, money, and independence. So a revolution would have to take place for The island to truly succeed which i dont forsee happening. Then how do u stop another person just like gato from taking rule? once u control the ports u basically control the country. Even if a revolution happened, I still think like the Uchiha clan, the village will still strive for power and independence. I will explain my reasoning for this on ur next post.

    whew, u had me really thinking there. I like it!! :)
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2006
  24. Butō Rengoob

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    ahhh...i just had a good idea....about strength..well wouldn't it make sense that since they are poor many of their best nin ( the seven swordsmen) turn out to be missing nin. maybe that is what zabuza was trying to fix...the economic state in his village ( as well as obtain power). kisame might have left because he was tired of being poorly paid( and for the hell of it). so in a word they became strong to make up for the lack of money( and people). but ironically they left because of what they were trained to combat( poor economics).
     
  25. AuxunauxiaNoname

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    Irony... it's somehow unexpected, but expected in that it's unexpected. It twists the world around and you have to look at it in a different way.

    I love irony ^_^

    -----

    Hmm... if people like Gato, or even Gato specifically were a large part of why the Water Country was so poor before... but are more prosperous now since Gato was essentially ousted from power by Naruto and co...

    Then the people of the Water Country owe quite a bit to Naruto!

    I wonder, just how strong is the alliance between Fire and Water, vs say, Fire's relationship with Wind (which seems to be quite strong right now)

    Alliances are important in terms of strength.

    Even if a small country has lots of strong allies, than that sort of adds into the country's own power.
     
  26. Sasuke_Power

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  27. Butō Rengoob

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    it's the classic fire vs. water theme....they are enemies...in fact they never liked eachother.
     
  28. AuxunauxiaNoname

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    Then why did Naruto go on that mission to help that guy from water country?

    ^that in the equation puzzles me.
     
  29. Butō Rengoob

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    his name was tazuna and he was from the wave country not the water country.
     
  30. Sasuke_Power

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    Wind usually referecing in storms in seqeunce with lightning seems to be more powerful than lighting because think about it, a hurricane passes along. Whats destroying everything? the rain? or lightning? no its the wind. As for opposites look at it like this Water is opposed to fire. When talking of fire, since lightning is such a destuctive force, it usually coincides with fire. Wind in refering to water can be gentle and destructive at the same time, kinda like in the Avatar (by the way i like this show a lot), Aang is able to learn water as fluently as his air bending. So thus Destructive/Violent VS Calm/destructive. This is probably why lightning can be seen in many animes either againt eachother OR at the same time combined, because in Japan a lot of times you'll see lightning mixed in with wind. If you ever played Onimusha 3. You'll know what i mean.

    This waz a post i had done earlier on another thread but it gives info.
    Ie Naruto had gone on that mission not only to get stronger but remember, Naruto is Naruto, He usually does what he says hes gonna do. Thats why they refer to him as the "number 1 hyperactive knucklehead ninja"

    Quote by Auxunauxia:
    Hmm... if people like Gato, or even Gato specifically were a large part of why the Water Country was so poor before... but are more prosperous now since Gato was essentially ousted from power by Naruto and co...

    Then the people of the Water Country owe quite a bit to Naruto!

    I wonder, just how strong is the alliance between Fire and Water, vs say, Fire's relationship with Wind (which seems to be quite strong right now)

    Alliances are important in terms of strength.

    Even if a small country has lots of strong allies, than that sort of adds into the country's own power.


    The Naruto Show in very much cases can be an extreme exception to this though. Remember, The myst village is looked upon by many as "inferior" and a waste of time. So that coupled with the place is known to have criminals and poverty doesnt place it in very good standings with anyone. Now The relationship between fire and water, Hmm, I actually think that this can also be explained through yin and yang. Fire is very destructive, thus thats why normally, u usually see bad guys weilding fire moves or even lightning, some cases are blurred and wind and water are used but the rule still can apply here. Wind IS also VERY destructive so A huge relationship can be seen between wind and fire because of there sheer strength. Wind is weird because is shares relationship with water and fire. Wind can be very gentle resulting in possibly someone like naruto, who is being trained of wind techniques would easily help out the myst village as apposed to someone else. BUT ThiS CANNOT BE APPLIED to naruto though because He saves gaara (sand Village)
    He saves (or at least tries to save) Sasuke, and others.

    That said with Ikazuchi Ookami's reply, Water and fire are complete opposites. not sharing like wind. So this is why yin and yang. Water being gentle, fire being strong. You said u like irony right, well here u go. The myst village is violent while the fire are more gentle. But as i was saying As long as the Destructive/Gentle thing remains in tact then the water and fire tribes would probably always have their issues BUT A mutual respect can be found of the opposite. When the line is blurred as with the Myst and Fire clans/villages/tribes then more conflict comes about and i would say that as of right now they are enemies. The mutual respect is diminshed and thus well rivals are imminant. With naruto being the exception, because as i said, naruto is naruto, and he has a kind heart. Think about it, Naruto couldnt kill haku cause of his emotions.
    Post something else. :)
    *waiting for auxunauxia/Ikazuchi to post*
    Note if there are anything you wish to correct me on go right ahead and do it. I think i summed some stuff up pretty good though.
     
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