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Beginning of God?

Discussion in 'Philosophical Forum' started by Bleach, Oct 10, 2006.

  1. Bleach

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    Well, I almost every once in a while think about religion and think about God and then i get to the hardest question ever that i will have ever faced possibly:

    Was their a beginning of the life of God?

    I mean don't you think its impossible to not have a beginning or an end? Have an infinite amount of life from the beginning to the end? Which their can't be.

    I personally don't know what to think! I get soooo confused when i get to the part where I think that if their is a beginning to everything than what was before God?

    Once again I will repeat my main question:

    Was their a beginning of the life of God?
     
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  2. Firedraconian

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    The gods.
    It would be rather naive to believe that, if such a thing as a 'god' exists that there would be only one.

    If we assume the gods do exist, ignoring any evidence to the contrary, then one possible answer is that the gods are a species that evolved to the highest possible level. I've read a few theories that suggest evolution might eventually cause a species to achieve a state without a phsyical body. Well, hypothesis' would be more accurate - you need evidence to be a theory.

    Maybe the gods are actually normal, but we're the subspecies. For example, the gods might be playing their version of SimEarth. Heck, maybe when we play SimEarth, somewhere there are people who worship us.
     
  3. MartialHorror

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    I believe God created time with the universe. Hence, he does not follow the rules of time, so does not age.

    humans are trapped in the cycle of time. We are born, grow up, and die. God is outside that cycle, which is why it is so hard to comprehend.
     
  4. Beo

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    I believe that the doing and origins of god/s are beyond our comprehension.
     
  5. Kurairu

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    Typical. When you can't come up with a valid original point, it MUST be uncomprehensible. >.>

    Anyway
    If there is a such thing, it's only natural that it's have to be outside the realm and effects of time and space that we as humans live in.
     
  6. Hitotsumami

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    At one point, God created Heaven. Where was he before that? And he created whatever was before Heaven, so where was he before whatever that could be? And where was he before he created that certain thing? And so on and so on.

    Uuuughhh.. confuzzling.
     
  7. Beo

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    Why do I need a valid original point?
    It is probably beyond our capabilities to understand.
    Or are you just really arrogant.
     
  8. Bad Pornography

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    I am a christian, hence I believe that God has always existed and shall never end. A hard concept to understand, and for me especially as I can't begin to comprehend. Eternity and infinity are hard concepts.
     
  9. MartialHorror

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    Before heaven, there was just God.
     
  10. Bleach

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    But how did he come to be ? I mean things just dont pop out out of no where that are as powerful as him
     
  11. Jin-E

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    It depends on which religious framework you have in mind. Ancient Polytheistic religions believed that God's was either born or created from other Gods that preceded them. However more Monotheistic religions believe that God has an infinite timespan, meaning he has no begining, nor a end.
     
  12. Firedraconian

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    Well, that would suggest that the gods are just doing this whole 'humanity' thing to pass the time. I mean, if you live/have lived for eternity, creating a species that will eventually die out is just a brief spark of entertainment.
     
  13. Bro Tai Jr.

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    The God/Gods began when someone made him up.
     
  14. Spirit

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    This is beyond our comprehension. Think about it too much and you'll go nuts.

    Human have a hard time to figure out where they came from [ape or heaven or both or none] and now they are questioning the other.

    Know yourself better, and you'll find out about your Creator.

    Have faith my friend. Have faith. [pats his/her/its shoulder/back/wherever suitable] :)
     
  15. MartialHorror

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    Urahara: As I said, as humans, we are bound to the laws of time. We were created, as every physical being is created.

    Imo, God created creation, time, and all the like. He does not abide by those rules. Hence, he never was created. He always existed.

    It's annoying to comprehend, and even I can't. but thats the explanation I find most likely.
     
  16. YoYo

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    Ok basically if god does exist, he will be on a higher level of existance than us.

    That means that he wouln't have to deal with the same factors that limit us, one of thos factors being time.

    We only presume that time is everywhere because its the only way we know, but god obviously does not have to deal with such petty things and probably invented time just for our universes sake when he was bored.
     
  17. MitsukiShiroi

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    I think we should all make one big God thread and discuss everything there. o-o

    Anyway, this is one of the reasons why I don't believe. Was God always here or did he just pop up in some dark place and thought; Hey, let me make a few planets and one will be earth where people live and animals.

    I mean, wtf? o-o

    No offense to any believers, it's just not probable imho.
     
  18. mr_shadow Moderator

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    I dont even think God knows, just like none of us can actually remember our birth. The only reason we know about our creation is becouse our parents/guardians told us how it happened.

    I think God just woke up one day, and found himself in an infinate dark void. He then created the universe to have something to occupy his thougts, and he now spends 100% of his time on this "hobby" since there is nothing else in the void to worry about.

    God is all-knowing within this universe becouse it is all his creation. But he cannot remember anything beyond the point where he gained self-awareness, and by then he was already alone


    Man, i really pity God now :(
     
  19. Cardboard Tube Knight

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    I don't know, a begining of God would mean there were something out there more powerful than God. Because you can't just have something out of absolutely nothing.

    So if there is something out there more powerful than God, why aren't we worshipping that instead. I believe God is without time, that he exists outside of it and he created it. So he was what was there before anything. Whether that be an instant, or an eternity before God decided to do anything. I don't think he has a begining.
     
  20. Firedraconian

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    You've got to be kidding.

    "The gods don't have a beginning because they exist outside of time!"

    That's your reasoning? You even admit you're completely making it up, have no idea what it means, and have no idea how such a thing would happen. Do you people even listen to yourself? I knew religion was basically fables, but when you start literally stringing random words together and then admit you have no idea what you just said, I dunno, that seems like a SIGN.

    A big one that says, "That's bullshit."
     
  21. MartialHorror

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    Who is this too?

    Anyway, believing in a being that created humanity that exists outside of time and space is not being religious. Generally, people are theists due to their belief in science. As was I, before I became a Christian.
     
  22. Firedraconian

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    Most religious people are, in fact, theists.

    And my message was to the people saying the gods exist outside time. For one thing, most of the fables imply they DO exist in time and are even bound by it. For example, even the Olympians are bound by the Fates and cannot change the past. The Christian diety created the planet over a series of days instead of, as he would if he existed outside of time, all at once.
     
  23. ComputerFriendly

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    ^^I have to agree. I think that god(s) exsist in time, but are not affected by it.
     
  24. MartialHorror

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    Oh, well, I believed in a supreme being outside of it, never the greek deities(although now I believe along with every other religion, believes they have some truth)

    Anyway, I will answer this the best way I can in my own believes. Human perception is a bitch.

    Why are Catholics not protestant? or vice versa. Its Christianity, yet they are different. Both were formed from different human perception. The difference between Christianity, Judaesm and Islam is that people percieve things differently(such as Christ being the messiah or not, or Christ being the son of God or not)

    Realize the Bible is nothing but a bunch of words that are worth as any kind of book I can fine. It's the message that counts.

    Imagine two people who happen to run into God, and hear his message. Will they hear the same thing? No, they will remember it differently. Nevertheless, they will probably get the point right.

    One Bible verse says "Find your own salvation." What does this mean? To me, it's find your own truth. Traditional Christianity believes that Christians go to heaven, the rest don't(this is debatable to me). But taking a literal view, this probably means find your own truth in Christianity. Hence, the words you read are not flat out truth.

    I can prove this. The teachings of Jesus, Moses, and Paul all have their differences. Christ believed in peace and that women are all equal to men. Paul was sexist, something you can point out. Moses's responce to everything was death, contrasting Jesus's teachings.

    Hence, human perception can be found in the word of God. Hence, the actual Bible is flawed. How do you determine truth? Try to see through their eyes, and compare it to what you know of the Bible, notably Christs teachings.

    The point? Dont take everything literally. God created the world in 7 days. But who syas this is mankinds time or Gods time? In another verse, it says to God one day is 10,000 human days. 10,000 at the time was really an equivalent to an incredibly high number which usually was used when you could not comprehend the number(Keep in mind, they probably did not even think the world was past 2,000 years old when this was written)

    Hence, humans cannot comprehend Gods time, which appears to be limitless considering God says he will always exist basically.

    Your first comment irks me. That does not mean all theists are religious. I can say most communists are Atheists, but I'm not comparing Atheists and Communists, as you seem to be doing.,
     
  25. Pimp of Pimps

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    With things like this, there is an infinate amount of possibilities. People who say this or that couldn't have had happened are just close-minded.

    I personally believe that God is all that ever has, will and won't exist. God is everything and nothing. God is infinity. We are all small pieces of God.

    Can existance be measured? No. There never will be an end and their never was a start. Nothingness never existed. Because for the cponcept for complete nothingness to exist, something would have to exist. And that would contradict absolute nothingness.

    So if you think of God as existance itself, I find it much simplier.

     
  26. Spirit

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    The beginning of god...i didnt say this before, as i needed to confirm it first.

    To find the beginning of god, you have to find the beginning of time, which is impossible. And this will all make a better sense if you believe when god said "I am Time". This also helps my reasoning of what i believe and what i was saying on another thread on God's existence i posted.
     
  27. Chatulio

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    In polytheism most of the founding gods are created through chaos in order to establish a sense of order. Granted that they were only made to give humans a sense of control in thier lives.
     
  28. Cardboard Tube Knight

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    Do you have any idea how ignorant you sound? First off, when I said God exists outside of time, I was talking about my God, the Christian God, I don't believe in the Olympian Gods, and no one does anymore. And in their myths there beginings are explained. So asking how they came about is stupid.

    We can't have an intelligent discussion about God here because everytime we do there's someone rushing in to call us all stupid because God doesn't exist.

    Just because God worked in seven days, which isn't even really true, its just figurative, doesn't mean that he can't exist outside of time. He's God, he created time, he can probably jump in and out of it as he pleases. Just as Jesus was here, growing and living under the constraints of our time, only to go back to Heaven and be released from time's constraints.

    So to say we're just stringing together random words, that's all it sounds like your doing. I mean why even bring up a set of Gods with a complete mythology that explains their beginings and the Titans before them? Learn what the hell you are talking about before you burst in here and call us full of bullshit.

    And for the record, all that existing out of time means is that God can see the future and the past if he wants, and he doesn't age. That would be all that means, he doesn't have to effect it or stop it, because of free will and he just wants to let us be.

    Any God bound by time isn't really a God, that's why the Olympian Gods were given up, because they weren't all powerful, they were very human-like, having affairs and the like.
     
  29. Zhongda

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    Not if you believe that god created the concept of time.
     
  30. Toby

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    The God of Christianity, Judaism and Islam exists. We must apply this fact to the knowledge which is similar to all three of the religions; that God is absolute and omnipotent, hence overseeing an eternal work of a greater purpose.

    Seeing as we are mortals set into "the work" of the Deity (or whatever term you wish to use in this context) we also have to fit the laws of the deity. One of them is the very reason why we are mortal; we die gradually over time. If our God/Deity does not, then he is obviously either in the terminology of immortal or everlasting, the latter obviously a factor of his power through an omnipotent role in the universe.

    Then let us see whether God is immortal or everlasting, eh?

    1. pro-immortality
    - God has proven to live throughout the entire documented existence of a Christian religion through his actions and words which we praise. Hence prolonging his presence as an immortal being.
    - God has fought forces of chaos, his very opposite, and won without a scratch. (Here is the neat part, he wins because he is "omnipotent", but for debate's sake let's disregard that for now. Get back to it, I promise.)
    - God's lifespan is infinite; aye, we would assume this as he creates the entire universe. But it is still a term of undefined existence which cannot provide us with a rational answer for God's complete existence. Simply put, immortality is a term we use to describe the infinite lifespan we cannot define.

    2. pro-everlasting(Omnipotence)
    - God is all-powerful and his will is an undefeated law throughout the ideology of Christianity.
    - God's "pre-life" is a period before existence itself as humanity defines it, and so a lifespan is not a sufficient explanation for God's existence. It remains all-powerful control over matter and anti-matter; omnipotence.
    - God's power is undisputed and unquestionable because we know he is everlasting, rather than immortal. We know this because God has, is and always will be watching over the universe. Because of this he exists beyond the time, which we know is an insufficient unit to measure his existence in.

    God in Christianity, Judaism and Islam is above time because he most likely created it. Whilst this may not be directly stated an example where he creates the earth states that he spends a duration of time. There is no earlier concept of time until God creates the earth. Hence we deduce that time is an energy which God allows to exist in order for his masterpiece to flourish and develop. His very plan was a development as only humanity was granted free will, completely different from any angel in his hierarchy. Secondly, he has made us mortal because he wants us to be controlled by time. Whilst we ponder what this means to him we ought to be focusing on why we are mortal, and rather recognise our place before stating that we understand a term which in itself incites to mankind's eternal struggle to reach a level of understanding where we can all live in the ideals of the divine masterplan.
     
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