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Boruto Narative Issues

ShinboiDood

Well-Known Member
Be it contradictions, sub-par writing, story telling, themes, etc.

Let's discuss it all.

I'll start with Themes. Naruto/Naruto shippuden gave us a character grown up in poor conditions, a character that then had to learn to grow through these tough conditions. These tough conditions come in the form of antagonists that have contradicting ideologies, our main character has to go through these issues 1 by 1.

The story is about human struggle, it's about antagonists who have diffrent Ideoligies who want to force them on others(pain,obito madara).

Ok... boruto time..

Well really, we can start at the end of shippuden. Madara was the final villian with these controversial clashing ideologies. Then we got kaguya. The alien.....

The build up for kaguya was minimal... no hype... no clashing Ideologies..

Boruto doesen't have this.. it's about these *big bad aliens* and these cyborgs. It's so far(imo) about humans separating their struggles to fight for the greater good of the civilization..(its dam fan service, big fights full of conditions shitting on the previous series).

That's just a start, here are some talking points.

-pains,Obitos,Madaras Ideoligies

-Contradictions and inconsistencies in Boruto

-Boruto's themes

-Boruto's struggles(because he has them *wink*)

-What makes Naruto enjoyable/not enjoyable

-What makes boruto enjoyable/not enjoyable

You don't gotta answer these talking points, there just talking points
 

Zef

Not to be confused with ZefST the Sasuke fan
-Contradictions and inconsistencies in Boruto


> I don't have valuable intel

> Knew about Deltas laser beams

> Knew that most Kara members like Boro had a core for regenerative healing






>You'll die x 3


*Few chapters pass*


> I nEvEr sAiD yOu wOuLd aCtUaLlY dIe


Does anyone have the raw of this page so I can give Kodachi the benefit of a doubt?
:mjlol

Maybe all three of these "you'll die" responses were translated poorly. :maybe
 

Arles Celes

The Psychologist
>You'll die x 3


*Few chapters pass*


> I nEvEr sAiD yOu wOuLd aCtUaLlY dIe


Does anyone have the raw of this page so I can give Kodachi the benefit of a doubt?
:mjlol

Maybe all three of these "you'll die" responses were translated poorly. :maybe
Perhaps it was kinda like:

Kurama: Because you will be in serious trouble. Do this and your future may not look bright. But since you are facing such hazardous situation anyway its you choice.

Either that or... :catboogie

My personal theory is that Kishi after taking over (a chapter after activated Baryon Mode) disregarded/forgot/did not read said chapter anlong with the stuff that Kodachi planned to go with and took his own "route". Maybe Naruto was actually meant to die or end up in a coma for a loooong time but Kishi might have hated that and wanted Naruto to stay around and keep playing an important role. :hm
 

Kurak

Well-Known Member
Writing is awful. There is nothing more to say about the manga. F***, even anime, and I mind you it's Pierrot we are talking about, is doing a better job.
 

Gen D

Well-Known Member
I'll give a small one.

Boruto's "genius" is characteristic of a Mary Sue.

He does in a few days (at most) what others have taken months or years do to, if even then.
No matter how you slice it, his achievements make characters like Minato and Kakashi look mentally deficient and unremarkable.


Just like this these characters.


It's because of this I don't waste my time thinking about his progression, none of it feels earned and I know it's there to make him more special. I can't buy into that when the writing hasn't earned that in the least.
 
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Broleta

Well-Known Member
I'll give a small one.

Boruto's "genius" is characteristic of a Mary Sue.

He does in a few days (at most) what others have taken months or years do to, if even then.
No matter how you slice it, his achievements make characters like Minato and Kakashi look mentally deficient and unremarkable.


Just like this these characters.


It's because of this I don't waste my time thinking about his progression, none of it feels earned and I know it's there to make him more special. I can't buy into that when the writing hasn't earned that in the least.
Boruto picked up some teachniques ridiculously quickly but to say he's just like Rey is a bit extreme. Rey used Jedi mindtrick and held her own in lightsaber combat against an injured experienced dark side user after having undergone no training. She then immediately bested Luke Skywalker and then somehow pulled off jedi knight feats after a few days of training with Luke. I know there's content in the canon novels that suggests that she 'downloaded' her powers from Kyo Ren but still, that's silly.

I look at Boruto's generation as more fortunate that the previous gens because they have better technology, infrastructure, teaching etc. This was all earned by the previous gens through their struggles and conflict and cemented by Naruto's philosophies of peace. This is similar to how you can look at real life today where people can obtaininformation and learn skills from internet sources that would have been much more time consuming and difficult to obtain and learn prior to the information age.
 

Gex

Senior Enchanter of the Minrathous Circle of Magi
Ao standing right next to Inoichi and Shikaku and surviving a nuclear bomb being dropped on his head just to be a prop for Boruto.
 

Rollace

REVOLUTIONIST
Ao standing right next to Inoichi and Shikaku and surviving a nuclear bomb being dropped on his head just to be a prop for Boruto
Ao didn't just survive. He barely survived. The man was good as dead when they found him.

And also, nothing suggested they were at the epicenter of the explosion. Matter of fact Madara and Obito had problems with the Juubi precision, and also that the anime showed a flash light before the bomb went off, which only proves further my point.
 

blk

Well-Known Member


> I don't have valuable intel

> Knew about Deltas laser beams

> Knew that most Kara members like Boro had a core for regenerative healing






>You'll die x 3


*Few chapters pass*


> I nEvEr sAiD yOu wOuLd aCtUaLlY dIe


Does anyone have the raw of this page so I can give Kodachi the benefit of a doubt?
:mjlol

Maybe all three of these "you'll die" responses were translated poorly. :maybe

:drake

It's literally stated that Kurama purposefully misled Naruto because otherwise he wouldn't have used Baryon mode.
 

Gex

Senior Enchanter of the Minrathous Circle of Magi
Ao didn't just survive. He barely survived. The man was good as dead when they found him.

And also, nothing suggested they were at the epicenter of the explosion. Matter of fact Madara and Obito had problems with the Juubi precision, and also that the anime showed a flash light before the bomb went off, which only proves further my point.

You seriously going to argue this nonsense.

Spoiler:






They were in the immediate radius of the bomb. To the point where fleeing was useless.

Yes, you have accounts of people surviving Hiroshima/Nagasaki but in every account there were favorable conditions for them to survive. Here, you have plainly stated that there were none. He was in the same room as Inoichi/Shikaku. One step away from them. He should've evaporated. Entire HQ disintegrated but oops Ao survived. Cut me some slack. Useless retcon to prop Boruto.
 

slicey

Young Lord
Boruto's "genius" is characteristic of a Mary Sue.
People throw this descriptor around for Boruto and seem to have no idea of the actual meaning of a Mary Sue :scoobyhuh

Honestly as soon as anyone calls Boruto a Gary/Mary Stu that's the second i stop reading because it's so ridiculously wrong i cringe.

Calling Boruto a Gary Stu just undermines the whole idea of what a Gary Stu is.

Just because a person is talented in certain areas doesn't mean they're a Gary/Mary Sue. A Mary Sue isn't a "characteristic", it's referring to the character as a whole.
 

Rollace

REVOLUTIONIST
You seriously going to argue this nonsense.

Spoiler:






They were in the immediate radius of the bomb. To the point where fleeing was useless.

Yes, you have accounts of people surviving Hiroshima/Nagasaki but in every account there were favorable conditions for them to survive. Here, you have plainly stated that there were none. He was in the same room as Inoichi/Shikaku. One step away from them. He should've evaporated. Entire HQ disintegrated but oops Ao survived. Cut me some slack. Useless retcon to prop Boruto.
Yes they were within the blast radius, my point doesn't refute that.

It's that they will were not within the bomb's epicenter, aka one of the explosion strongest point, which would explain how he survived. The bomb should have disintegrated all within its epicenter, and the point it landed, but further beyond that, there's chance it won't since it would get weaker. That's my point.

And when you watch it in the anime, the bomb exploded first, then there was a screen of light, before HQ was taken out. That implies they were some distance away from the bomb's detonation.
 

Gex

Senior Enchanter of the Minrathous Circle of Magi
Yes they were within the blast radius, my point doesn't refute that.

It's that they will were not within the bomb's epicenter, aka one of the explosion strongest point, which would explain how he survived. The bomb should have disintegrated all within its epicenter, and the point it landed, but further beyond that, there's chance it won't since it would get weaker. That's my point.

And when you watch it in the anime, the bomb exploded first, then there was a screen of light, before HQ was taken out. That implies they were some distance away from the bomb's detonation.

That's also a point I'm making. They weren't in that weaker radius.

Considering the blast radius it's too late to escape.

A sensor ninja should be able to judge those things properly. If they were in the weaker zone he wouldn't have said that. One bomb has the power to level whole mountain. It must've been pretty far distance for the impact to weaken or Madara had really poor aim.

If you watched anime you have the shot of Bijuu Bomb going straight towards your eyes from first pov. Which implies it did drop on their heads. And then immediate animation of detonation.
 

123fire

Kawaki and Sarada>>>>>Your Fave
the manga which is the source material sadly lacks lore,characterization,worldbuilding, depth, ideologies, philosophies. everything just relies on hype. :noah
 

Gen D

Well-Known Member
no idea of the actual meaning of a Mary Sue
That's because people use the term interchangeably with "character I don't like."

A Mary Sue, by a definition I've come to adopt, is a character who's mere presence in the plot cheapens what's established for the sake of a pay off the writer desires. Also usually in a way that undermines the efforts of other characters.

So in this way, yes, characters can certainly ve described with sue-ish traits.

And when evaluating Boruto's character, his 'genius' and 'aptitude' slide right into that definition.

he's just like Rey
He doesn't need to be at Rey's level of power leveling to be compared to her. They both do the same thing when it comes to their power progression, which is acquire new skills at a pace wholly unrealistic to the setting.

I look at Boruto's generation as more fortunate that the previous gens because they have better technology, infrastructure, teaching etc.
Even if that was the case, those are never applied in the story in the case of Boruto. We don't see him being taught a new way to achieve the skills that took his predecessors extremely long lengths of time to develop. In fact, for the Rasengan, he was taught the old method, and completed it in a few days max.
 

Zef

Not to be confused with ZefST the Sasuke fan
:drake

It's literally stated that Kurama purposefully misled Naruto because otherwise he wouldn't have used Baryon mode.
That has nothing to do with what I'm talking about. Are you slow?
:uglycat


The issue is not that Naruto was misled its that Kurama says he didn't say Naruto would die when he in fact said so and said it numerous fucking times.



 

slicey

Young Lord
A Mary Sue, by a definition I've come to adopt,
Well if we all go by our own definition of things guess we'll all be right all the time, good to know :cantrustleme
is a character who's mere presence in the plot cheapens what's established for the sake of a pay off the writer desires. Also usually in a way that undermines the efforts of other characters.
Except Boruto being a genius in certain areas doesn't undermine what has been established at all. Hard work is still required to do those jutsu for most.

Your real issue is that you can't seem to grasp what a genius is.

Genius: exceptional intellectual or creative power or other natural ability.
Exceptional: unusual; not typical.

So tell me how that cheapens what's been established? Because last i checked Minato, Kakashi, and Itachi were all considered to be geniuses in ninjutsu, so it's not like there's no precedent.

Honestly what comes across here is that you hate the fact that Boruto can learn things easily where Naruto had to work extremely hard :catshrug
 

Gen D

Well-Known Member
Well if we all go by our own definition of things guess we'll all be right all the time, good to know :cantrustleme
Not necessarily.
And there could be arguments that the definition I use is ill suiting or too specific. But I've found it a good bar to set for these kinds of things.

Except Boruto being a genius in certain areas doesn't undermine what has been established at all.
He 100 percent does.

Because we already have prior examples of highly intelligent or advanced practioners undergoing the same trials with vastly inferior results to Boruto's own. Or they do not at all compare.

Instinctively, this child had learned an A Rank technique and applied a Chakra Nature to it without his own express input.

Not only does that damage Naruto, Kakashi and Minato's efforts in learning a complete Rasengan, it also contradicts Boruto's genius status.

He doesn't use what he knows and applied his skills to learn this new technique increadibly quickly, he did it on accident on a consistent basis.

If Boruto's skill progression isn't characteristic of a mary sue, than neither is Rey, because she's just a super genuis and a Dyad in the force, therefore it makes sense!
 
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slicey

Young Lord
He 100 percent does.

Because we already have prior examples of highly intelligent or advanced practioners undergoing the same trails with vastly inferior results to Boruto's own. Or they do not at all compare.
"Vastly inferior"?

I feel like you missed the episode where Kakashi said Boruto's VR isn't complete. And you missed the fact that VR is weaker than a normal Rasengan.
Instinctively, this child had learned an A Rank technique and applied a Chakra Nature to it without his own express input.
And that is a Sue-ish trait how? We were expressely told it was instinctive. It was a one off, it only had narrative importance once, and as said above, is weak and has been expressely stated to be incomplete since then.
Feels like you're still back at episode 60/chapter 10 or something :blobshrug
Not only does that damage Naruto, Kakashi and Minato's efforts in learning a complete Rasengan, it also contradicts Boruto's genius status.
Didn't Kakashi just randomly decide to do a Rasengan one day? I missed the training arc when Kakashi learned the Rasengan :scoobyhuh But regardless, do you think that Kakashi, when given the same instructions on how to learn the Rasengan as Boruto got, would have gotten it as quickly as Boruto did? Because i do.

Minato created the technique. Do you think that the same Minato, when given the same instructions on how to learn the Rasengan as Boruto got, would have gotten it as quickly as Boruto did? Because i do.

Naruto is canonically dumb :catshrug

But you still haven't explained to me how Boruto instinctively applying a chakra nature to a jutsu undermines that fact that hard work is required in normal circumstances. Sometimes people inherently know things, or instinctively do things, because their brains are wired in a slightly different way. Sometimes they take a slightly different path and arrive at a slightly different result. And like i said, this isn't some planet busting Rasengan. It's weaker and less versatile than the normal one i.e. inferior.

And somehow that consitutes a Stu-ish trait :whatthe
He doesn't use what he knows and applied his skills to learn this new technique increadibly quickly, he did it on accident on a consistent basis.
But logically, why wouldn't he know how to do it and perform it consistently when that was how he learned it?

Basically what i'm reading here is: Boruto learned how to do a Rasengan in a matter of days, and applied a nature to it when it was stated to be really difficult, and i don't like that, therefore he is a Sue.

You can't just slap something you don't like as being Sue-ish. Or you can, but that's where i'll stop taking you seriously :catshrug
 

blk

Well-Known Member
We have characters in Naruto (like Itachi, Obito, Gaara, and some other) who were legit Kage levels (above even older legendary Shinobis like the Sannin) at 13/14.

Learned/acquired all their stuff with no difficulty whatsoever.


Naruto & Sasuke became literal gods at 16, mastered Hag's given abilities in like a dozen minutes (and they mastered ton of advanced stuff before that too).

But Boruto is a Sue because he learned a bunch of regular Ninjutsu somewhat easily :tiredpepe
 

Platypus

Retired Staff
Retired Staff
And also, nothing suggested they were at the epicenter of the explosion.
The medical ninja found him inside the bomb crater. Can't get much closer to the epicenter than that.




Matter of fact Madara and Obito had problems with the Juubi precision, and also that the anime showed a flash light before the bomb went off, which only proves further my point.
Those were impact frames of the explosion, a technique commonly used in animation.



 

Platypus

Retired Staff
Retired Staff
And obviously a Juubidama should have been much more devastating than what we were shown in Ao's flashback.

 
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NearlyEnough

Well-Known Member
That scene might be the worst scene I've ever seen, they nerfed the Bijudama so much... now The Jubi is barely mountain level. What a joke, and then you have people saying that they don't nerf characters in Boruto.
 

Gen D

Well-Known Member
I feel like you missed the episode where Kakashi said Boruto's VR isn't complete.
That doesn't matter. The very formation of the Rasengan with a Nature is deemed to be almost impossible...

And extremly volatile.


In fact, Naruto's Rasenshuriken wasn't complete either when he first presented it in a combat encounter.

And it's imperfection lead it to it failing half of the time. Every time Boruto utilized Vanishing, it worked.

you missed the fact that VR is weaker than a normal Rasengan.
It made Momoshiki, who could restrain Naruto, Sasuke, and the rest of the Gokage after eating some Chaka Pills, flinch horribly and made him release his jutsu. This was in a form where he could tank hits from Naruto and Sasuke in their powered up forms.

If the Vanishing Rasengan is weaker, it's not in any meaningful degree to the story.

And that is a Sue-ish trait how?
Because he's just THAT good. Just like how Rey was just THAT good. How Wesley Crusher was just THAT good. He is by no mistake the best genius within the series and it's just because he's 'special'.

it only had narrative importance once,
You do realize without Vanishing Rasengan every single one of the cast members would be dead?
There would have been no story without it.

No matter how much time goes by, that will never not be the case. So it doesn't matter if happened early on the story, it's still valid and relevant to my point.

But regardless, do you think that Kakashi, when given the same instructions on how to learn the Rasengan as Boruto got, would have gotten it as quickly as Boruto did? Because i do.
We aren't told how Kakashi learned the Rasengan. Only that he did. So it can't be said he learned it traditionally way or not. In fact, it's a possible plot hole how he learned it, but that isn't important to this topic.

Regardless, I don't understand this argument. Saying Kakashi or Minato may have learned it as easily as Boruto isn't a argument because that never happened or is even mentioned to be possible in the series.

Hell, Naruto has the advantage of endurance. He can train longer and harder than all three of them due to his status as a Jinchuriki and this process is shown.

Night:


The next Morning:




Naruto is canonically dumb :catshrug
Using intelligence as an argument is really damn flaky when Boruto doesn't have a damn clue of what did to get his Rasengan the way it is.

He didn't demonstrate any further higher understanding of Chakra Control during his training. He just did it through attrition, just like his ol' man. But, you know better cause reasons.

But you still haven't explained to me how Boruto instinctively applying a chakra nature to a jutsu undermines that fact that hard work is required in normal circumstances.
I have multiple times.

Sometimes people inherently know things, or instinctively do things, because their brains are wired in a slightly different way.
:suspepe
Smart people aren't just given the grace of god, given intuition or inspiration like Ares whispering in some chick's ear.

Intelligence is usually measured in the application of acquired knowledge.

And funnily enough, we don't see Boruto acquiring or applying knowledge for his training, unlike Naruto with the first 1st stage.

Remember? :smugnon After just seeing a cat play with the water balloon and watching it pop, Naruto devised how to complete the first step, which he had so much trouble the day before.

That's far more than Boruto has ever done with the training exercise when it comes to using external information to problem solve.

Saying he's a genius is cheap when you don't present how their genius manifests in their problem solving.

Sometimes they take a slightly different path and arrive at a slightly different result.
He did nothing different, he established no new direction to execute the technique. He made an entirely new one by accident and with seemingly none of the hardship that it intrinsically involves.

Again, that's how his progression matches a MA-REEEEEEY SUE.

But logically, why wouldn't he know how to do it and perform it consistently when that was how he learned it?
That's the problem man! IT DOESN'T MAKE LOGICAL SENSE! :blobkflip:blobkflip :blobkflip

The writers gave him this ability without putting the correct work into it to get the result they wanted. That's why it's cheap, that's why it doesn't work.

i don't like that, therefore he is a Sue.
So you're just going to ignore my arguments and attack my credibility.

I'm sorry, I don't appreciate that.
 

Zef

Not to be confused with ZefST the Sasuke fan
That scene might be the worst scene I've ever seen, they nerfed the Bijudama so much... now The Jubi is barely mountain level. What a joke, and then you have people saying that they don't nerf characters in Boruto.
They probably nerfed the explosion because they realized how dumb it was for Ao to survive the type of explosions Kishi used to draw.
:lmao

Learned/acquired all their stuff with no difficulty whatsoever.
Boruto unconsciously did something that Minato couldn't complete before he died.






There's genius and then there's just ridiculous.
 

NearlyEnough

Well-Known Member
Naruto is canonically dumb :catshrug
This is just not true... Naruto literally masters the Rasengan by being smart and thinking outside the box and is consistently portrayed as a tactical genius. I don't think Boruto is a gary stu but bashing Naruto's character to defend him is dumb.
 

slicey

Young Lord
This is just not true... Naruto literally masters the Rasengan by being smart and thinking outside the box and is consistently portrayed as a tactical genius. I don't think Boruto is a gary stu but bashing Naruto's character to defend him is dumb.
:scoobyhuh Wasn't it a running gag that Naruto wasn't very smart? Maybe dumb was a bad word idk, it's been a while since i watched Naruto but i'm pretty sure Kakashi wondered how Jiraiya taught him anything.

How about dumb in the conventional sense, but smart in the thinking outside of the box sense?
 
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