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Boy, it sure is trendy to be conservative!

Discussion in 'Perspectives' started by Pestilence, Jun 22, 2005.

  1. Pestilence forgery expert

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    Here are the overall tendencies of previous decades.
    50's=conservative
    60's=liberal
    70's=first liberal, then conservative
    80's=conservative
    90's=liberal
    This decade=conservative
    There is a pattern to this, I just know it.
    I predict that the whole "Republican dominated America" thing should pass in a few years, just like every other fad.
    So liberals, relax. Right now we are in Revenge of the Republicans. In a few years, it will be Return of the Democrats.

    EDIT: I have no idea what exactly this topic means for debating. So, whatever you think it is about, go for it.
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2005
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  2. baconbits SSL or nothing Retired Staff

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    What did you want to debate about this? I think that there are some reasons why you may be incorrect, but I don't want to go off topic.
     
  3. DyersEve The Great Southern Trendkill

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    I don't know if I' d call it "trendy". After all, look at all the crap conservatives get nowadays.
     
  4. baconbits SSL or nothing Retired Staff

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    That's what I'm saying. If I didn't put the fact that I'm African American in my sig I'd be called racist on top of the other things I've been called that include bigot, sexist, moron, and more. It seems to me that conservative talk is quickly labeled hate speech before it is heard.
     
  5. Scorpio3.14 mmmmm....pi

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    lol I see that all the time

    Being a conservative, I can say that it sure dosnt feel trendy to be conservative most the time...and Im from a conservative state :blink
     
  6. baconbits SSL or nothing Retired Staff

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    Lol. This is funny to us because we see this all the time. If I didn't think that conservatism was right I'd be a liberal just to get along with people. Look at how all conservative leaders are portryed: as dunces or evil behind the scenes schemers.

    Conservative black people are called traitors or plain "white" or an "uncle Tom".

    A liberal judge should be respected, but journalists can write stories hoping for the death of Clarence Thomas.

    Robert Byrd, a US senator, is a former KKK member, and said "white ^ (use bro)" on TV, but you probably don't know about that. Of course you have heard about how the former Senate majority leader, Trent Lott, lost his place because he complimented a man who ran on a racist platform, something that was trivial by the time that Lott mentioned it.

    If its trendy to be a conservative, I better go in hiding during the age of the "Dems Return".
     
  7. explicitkarma 24601

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    Now days I actually see a lot more conservative bashing than liberal bashing. I don't think it's ever really trendy to be on either side. Because whatever side is in power will always receive close scrutiny from the other side.
     
  8. lekki Specialist

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    Wait wait wait, you're African American?
    From the debates over in the problem with bush forum, you sounded far from it. I guess I have to read the small print in sigs from now on.

    On topic, the reason being conservatives are dominating the air waves these days and for the most part are getting their way. The last team of "liberals" and I have to use that term loosely, were made to look like complete jackasses because conservatives have mud-slinging down to an art form these days and liberals do nothing but make idiotic remarks these days and look like jackasses on t.v.
     
  9. Pestilence forgery expert

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    Ok, here's the story with the conservative bashing. There always must be bashing and hating. That's just how the world works, there are many angry people. That said, there are many more conservatives in power to be bashed. This is part of the overall pattern. Liberals don't like it when conservatives are in power. Conservatives don't like it when liberals are in power. Hence, there will always be bashing of the group that is in charge.
     
  10. baconbits SSL or nothing Retired Staff

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    Yeah, that's true but there is also just the average "all conservatives are..." kind of thing going around, even on this forum. When I first got here and said what I thought almost every rep I got was red.
     
  11. Killenator Too good for a Custom Title

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    right now, public opinion is actually in the court of the liberals (according to polls), so technically we are in Return of the Liberals.

    Truth is, we're following a pattern. Liberals lost popularity in the mid to late 90s in much the same way. Same for conservatives before them.

    As for the name calling and generalization going on, most of it is based off the policy supported by the right wing. Right now, the right wing is charactorized by a strong support of the radical christian groups, who are intollerant."focus on the family" has just become code for "Force christian lifestyles onto everyone." which is intollerant. The right wing is not at fault, the radical neo-cons and semi-fascists (Pat Robertson types) who allied to shift the political balance are. The right wing just knows that it gained power this way, and is willing to go along as long as it stays in power, but the moderate right wing has realized they don't like where it's going and have started pulling back, hence the shrinking popularity of the Bush administration and the Republican Party.
     
  12. ruffgoat I don't want a custom title

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    Its trendy to be conservative because unlike liberals they arent complete morons.
    Honestly I dont know how any democratic president gets elected.
     
  13. yo586 Member

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    Its called a spectrum. There are idiots and genuises and people of all sorts on both sides. Without liberals there wouldn't be conservatives. So don't go mindlessly bashing the other side, try respecting them.

    It's people who generalize like you that are the real problem.
     
  14. Killenator Too good for a Custom Title

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    Because unlike Conservatives, liberals (which most democrats only pretend to be... Most are just moderates... There is no American left wing.) have something called compassion. Conservatives only have populist messages and the "moral" majority to back them up when they slip too far.

    Edit: GJ... You know where your neg-rep button is! Now, either give a reason, or at least your name.
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2005
  15. explicitkarma 24601

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    You overlooked something.

     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2005
  16. Pestilence forgery expert

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    It seems that most people are very strong on the left or very strong on the right, with almost no one in the middle. Has this country always been this polarized?

    As far as Killenator's post, I'm not sure that I agree. Do the liberal candidates have "compassion?" Neither side champions the poor. Both sides are composed of members from the upper-class who at the end of the day, don't really care how the people are living. Can you actually picture a democrat senator not being able to sleep at night because more boys have become drug dealers in the Ghetto? I can't.

    The two posts that I've quoted are examples of a serious current issue. One should not be liberal just to be liberal, or conservative just to be. I am liberal, but I have real facts to back my opinion, not just steriotypes of the other group.
     
  17. Kojiro Ganryu Sasaki アルかわいい

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    US doesn't have a freaking left wing. It's basically either you're insanely far right or you're less to the right.

    Your two party system sucks. Seriously.
     
  18. Raistlin-sama Have you been naughty or nice?

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    I agree completley, good thing i don't live there...

    About the trend thing, there is surely something about it... Politics goes like that, no matter where in the world... Right now we are into a "right wing" period...
     
  19. baconbits SSL or nothing Retired Staff

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    Well this is also unjustifed.

    Liberals have compassion and I don't doubt that they care about what they talk about, but the problem is that they don't have much sucess when their ideas are implemented. For example, a liberal will try to cure poor people by giving them money and they get that money from taxing businesses and blame the poor on the "big capitolist pigs".

    Well its undeniable in this example (that is very close to reality by the way) that the liberals have some compassion. The problem is that they didn't solve anything. You don't get any richer by just getting money, you have to be a capitol creator. The way to get rich is to make something that people like, like the guy who made Naruto. Nobody would call him a "capitolist pig".

    Secondly, by taxing these businesses, they actually are protecting the "capitolist pigs" that they hate, because taxes are additions to the start up costs of business. The higher to start up costs the harder it is to start a business and the easier it is hold a solid monopoly and actually become a "capitolist pig".

    I have nothing against liberals, but I do have serious problems with their actions to solve the problems that they see.
     
  20. stomponfrogs still

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    I've known some pretty left-winged Americans. For those of you that have never lived in America, who are you to judge the majority of its citizens, who you have never interacted with yourself? There are plenty of people who are strong left, strong right, barely left, barely right, or perfectly moderate. America is more diverse than you probably think.

    But back on topic, I'm actually mildly conservative in Texas, and it's not even trendy here. I might have two friends, tops, that share my political beliefs, but they stay quiet about it for the sole reason that their beliefs are not very popular. Sure, I don't agree with most of my friends on political issues (most of them lean far towards liberal ideals when compared to me), and it's cool. I'll be damned if I let my political beliefs rule my social life.
     
  21. Pestilence forgery expert

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    Hang on, you live in Texas, and most of your friends are liberal. I don't know what to say. It seems to me that Texas has been Republican/conservative dominated for a really long time.

    I have very little knowledge of economics, but (as far as I know) baconbits brings up a really strong point about hurting business indirectly hurts the people. What about the converse? Does helping business indirectly help the people? This isn't rhetorical, I would really like to know since you know...
    . Personally, I would assume no.
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2005
  22. cool2not Member

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    You my friend are genius. I have a theory that states that when a political party takes power for a number of years they get progressively more liberal/conservative in their action to the point of pure obnoxiousness, that is when the general public shifts opinions and turns to the other party and the process states all over again.
     
  23. SDF1 New Member

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    Living in Texas myself, I can assure you that most of the *smart* ones lean further towards liberal than conservative. The problem is that it's only the metropolitan cities that vote blue... whereas the rest of the state votes red.

    Though it's hard to be in Texas and not have *some* conservative beliefs. Like, for instance... the death penalty. I'm a pretty liberal guy by all accounts... but if you gave me the option to take every child molester in the state and hang them until the rot, I'd tie the nooses (neese?) myself.

    This is why describing an entire populous in broad strokes is asinine, to say the least.
     
  24. baconbits SSL or nothing Retired Staff

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    You're probably right, but if you look at demographics, people our age are more liberal than the rest of the population, so you can live in a completely red state and still have more liberals than conservatives as your friends.

    I definitely think that you can help people by helping businesses, but only if you act in an intelligent fashion. For example, you can't just give corporate welfare, that only helps the business owners and the "Big Business" people. However if you cut taxes on the businesses you lower the prices of goods for the common people. They can also hire more people. You still need to deal directly with people but you can use business to help people especially since people are economic creatures who must engage in the economy in their daily lives.
     
  25. jkingler J. Kinglecrab, Esq.

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    Ever heard of Austin? :huh
     
  26. Killenator Too good for a Custom Title

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    Well, actually, I would argue that liberalism helps startup businesses. Anti-monopoly laws are most certainly liberal in nature. Equally so are laws that force the big businesses to pay their workers reasonablyl, no matter how large and capable of abuse the company is. Also, a progressive tax would actually take the burden off of smaller companies, so your facts are off there as well.

    Welfare is a good thing, because it does make sure that people aren't starving on the streets, and unlike a charity, it can be trusted to provide fairly. Now, don't get me wrong, I realize that there are people who live off of welfare without holding a job because they don't have to, but they are not a majority. Welfare provides for those who are down and out (for whatever the reason) to have a second chance at life. I call that compassion.
     
  27. Scorpio3.14 mmmmm....pi

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    We care about the poor too, we just have other ways to try to help them. Like the saying goes "Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, and you feed him for life." Our compassion comes in trying to get these people jobs so they can take care of them selves and not rely of government. If we increase tax on big buisnesses, what do you think will happen? They will lay off workers to compesate. Give a big buisness a tax cut or a grant and what might they do? Expand, creating tons of new jobs that need to be filled.

    I personally am a lower class citizen, Ive seen first hand what a welfare state really does to people. Its great to get free money from the government, but its a lot better to get a job. Both liberals and conservatives are compasionate, we just have different ways to go about helping people. Whether you think our ways are effective or not is compeletly up to you, but that dosnt make us uncompasionate.
     
  28. yo586 Member

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    Mind explaining to those in the unknown what a "progressive tax" is and how its implementation would help businesses start up? Just trying to follow a debate here and its hard to do when I don't know the terms.
     
  29. baconbits SSL or nothing Retired Staff

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    I would argue that a progressive tax actually hurts both businesses and common people. A progressive tax is one where taxes get higher (by percentage) when you have more to tax.

    My argument of this hurting business is because if you tax a business higher than another business you create an unequal playing field. In the end the inertia of having an advantage may lead a company to become quickly large, due to the unfair advantage, and then tank out because of the sudden increase in taxes. This hurts both the workers and the owners.

    Secondly it punishes the sucessful. If I work hard and earn more money than you, I'm already going to be paying for more than my share of taxes even at the same percentage because I'll use less government services (on average) and pay more. By increasing the taxes on me you are essentially just making an excuse to increase the money of the government and creating an injustice.

    It hurts the common man because business owners tend to be on the higher end of the salaries, and when they have less money and make less money they hire less workers.

    Also I failed to note that liberalism does not help startup businesses, because they need a larger tax on businesses to support their social programs. This only makes businesses harder to start and creates the reasoning for monopolies.
     
  30. stomponfrogs still

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    Well, like Baconbits said, people around my age tend to lean towards a liberal mindset (I'm actually 18, like it says on the left). At least it would seem that way to me through personal experience. I don't think *smart* Texans are mostly liberal or conservative, by the way. *Smart* people in general have a broad range in knowledge and form their own opinions which may differ from other *smart* people. I'm sorry if you feel that some of my conservative opinions make me dumb.
     
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