Discussion in 'Naruto Battledome' started by Hi no Ishi, Jan 1, 2018.
People tend to forget that Naruto had help from multiple Edo Kage working in sync to deal blows against juubito. He also posessed Senjutsu which was Juubitos weakness at the time.
The scaling i used was different than the scaling he used, i scaled a character with the same moveset in terms of offence/defence (the offence and defence that does matter in this matchup that is), basically i was scaling the character to a weaker character due to lack of feats. Meanwhile vasto lorde scaled off of a technique that are totally not the same, and we have been shown that even characters like hinata can deflect a juubi's tail, and i sure as hell dont see her tanking any form of juubi dama nor any sensible member in this site. So the scaling is bad, if scaling like that is possible, most characters scale to god tiers for somehow reacting, or tagging god tiers (5 kage etc).
Okay, so you think if the two fought in BM somehow BM naruto will have the edge in reactions and speed more or less yea? If so, then you ought to rewatch the whole naruto cuz you missed the concept of keeping up against faster opponents if you had the same speed, and fights were characters kept up with characters faster than them and gained an upper hand or tagged them, seriously man the character you're in support of is a prime example, him keeping up with juubito who is much faster.
Based on what?
All of those Kage knew they could not win without him and also, why do people say it was Jubito' s weakness like that sticky syrup gun from Gamakichi just blew a hole in him or something.
Senjutsu just did not get instantly deleted, they still needed to overpower his jutsu and TSB the old fashioned way.
When vague statements that don't match the feats of the two competitors = an actual argument supported by evidence we'll let you know. Until then, Naruto stomps, as Madara cannot even harm BM, let alone the much stronger BSM.
It would be one thing to scale their damage and say Madara could cut that same branch as easily or something we could compare but instead of that you went for a thing where we know EMS Madara has never had to track that speed.
You'll also notice from my first post I avoided non direct comparisons for that reason.
More indirect scaling but no more/less valid.
Naruto was able to break (>) the chakra arms that were able to break (>) the 4 red yang which walled (>) a full Jubi Dama. Direct comparison.
That much makes perfect sense, and though I don't think I personally would try to take that up to the same level as 6 red yang barrier it is true that Naruto and Minato's combined attack did more damage to the TSB than the quad Jubi Dama did to it so his comparison is not without merit there either.
Again amped off of Naruto's chakra, Hinata can block the Jubi tail because she did lol. That has no other meanings attached to it.
That relies also on the " they can't do that thing I just saw them do" philosophy.
The new Gokage can keep up with the people that they have been shown to keep up with. No more no less.
If that's stronger than we anticipated that's ok. We just read the manga.
This is ignoring that Naruto physically caught Jubito in motion.
It's not like he was just learning how to block or dodge a JJ. He caught up to him with his body.
A thing you need to be moving at a similar speed to do.
Gotcha! I understand now.
And what does Naruto have to destroy PS again?
That’s arguing nothing really. They needed him, but you can’t ignore the fact that without them assisting him it would’be been a lot harder to play on an even level field with juubito. It is his weakness since it is one of the few things capable of actually hurting him if used correctly. That can’t be argued. We also can’t argue that without the help of the edo hokages landing many of these hits would’be been extremely difficult, especially with the assistance of Tobirama and minatos Hirashin. Even the battle with the ten tails would’ve killed the Shinobi alliance if not for the hokages arrival on the battlefield.
BM Naruto's Mega TBB >>> 100% Kyuubi's Normal TBB.
Bijuus don't always put a huge portion of their chakra into attack as BM naruto does so it's irrelevant that PS got hit by 100% kurama's attack. Naruto's attack is several times bigger than the combined mass of 5 bijuus put together. Whereas 100% Kurama's attack is about the size of it's own mouth
Do any of you seriously think 100% Kurama's mouth alone is that much big.
He is big but not that big. It's head is smaller than Gamabunta.
This notion that PS while be able to get through a Mega TBB is seriously wrong.
And we haven't even taken into account that NE boost will increase it's power even further.
Secondly, Swords can be blocked. Hashirama has blocked Madara's sword with a wood construct far smaller than PS. Naruto's tails can function as hands and have the power to hold down 5 Bijuus.
Naruto has 9 tails, Madara has what 2 swords?
He blocks any attack and blasts his face with TBB.
I'm in no way arguing he is the equal of the Jubi Jinchuriki, I'm saying he is a hell of a lot closer than anyone on that battlefield
I agree, but a lot of the feats people tend to use connect entirely with his showings against juubito. Often the feats are phrased to make it seem he did it alone when context of each feat matters.
Nah lol. I feel you.
That's like thinking that 8g would have done as well alone or if Madara was serious
Naruto was contending with a Juubi Jinchuuriki using BSM (he had help, but majority of them had his cloak to help anyway). Juubito is stronger than Hashirama, as stated by the 1st Hokage. Hashirama is stronger than EMS Madara. Don't know how anyone thinks Madara wins anything in this fight.
the edo Kages didn’t have the cloak .... minato himself had his own half of Kurama Chakra. The cloaks served to protect the Shinobi alliance. I’m not agreeing or disagreeing with your choice. Just putting your evidence into context. Sasuke and Naruto were not on the same level of power as juubito.
Seems like they covered it for me. Gotta love that companionship.
It why I said majority of the people, and not all of the people who helped had a bijuu cloak. Didn't say they were in the same power level. They weren't on the same power level as Kaguya, they still beat her though.
So nothing then
Exactly, so when using a feat for Naruto the circumstances of such a feat have to be taken into account. It can't be just naruto did this. It should be naruto did x because of y and z. That helps give more perspective on matchups.
He did contend with Juubito, I did also say that he had help (@bold). Didn't say he faught him all by himself.
you disregarded the fact that those with the cloak had it on for their own protection, and the help that made a major difference against juubito was that of the Edo hokages whom did not posses the cloak themselves. Big difference
What, you're asking for my personal opinion?
I’m just asking what jutsu do you think is suppose to destroy PS.
Oh, TBB should get it done. BSM Rasenshuriken should make it happen too, considering even SM Rasenshuriken stunned Kurama. A Ultra Big Ball Barrage could also do significant damage, assuming he could pull that off.
He's also pretty much in PS's strength tier as of BM, this adds SM to the mix. SM itself allows for strength to toss boss summons and flip Bijū. Combined, there's no doubt he could outmuscle PS, if it came down to it.
Essentially, Naruto has most basic advantages and the tools to win, so I figured he does.
Did not disregard anything. Konoha 11 had the cloak on when Naruto and Sasuke defeated Juubito. That was the help I was talking about not the fodders, or the Edo Hokages.
they were also encapsulated within Kuramas tails. Its a huge buff regardless. This was also Juubito with a weakened will towards the end of the battle as opposed to the one who was rag dolling everything thrown against him prior. Your statement pointed to Naruto doing well mostly without help or with his own power supplementing that help through 9 tail cloaks. lets just agree to disagree at this point.
My statement pointed to Naruto (and co) doing well against Juubito. Obito might have been "rag dolling" them as you say, but it amounted to nothing as he couldn't beat them. His lost his will due to Naruto, showing him the error of his ways, that's a plus to him. Never said Naruto did mostly without help. I said he did well against a Juubi Jinchuuriki along with others (who he gave a chakra cloak to (konoha 11)). He did also give them the Rasenagn, that broke his TSB wall (or something), that's another one for Naruto. Majority of the things that lead to Juubito losing in the end, was in fact due to Naruto. But whatever agree to disagree.