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Building and maintaining relationships with people whose politics are the opposite of yours.

Discussion in 'Konoha Country Club' started by Luiz, Jun 12, 2019.

  1. Luiz

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    That is... how can you be comfortable with someone defending things that you condemn with every fiber of your being? And comdening things you consider important. Supporting politicians you consider absolutely vile.

    Some people say you just have to avoid the subject, But... is it truly friendship then? Isn't it built on a false foundation that relies on blocking out an aspect of that person?

    And when you do have those debates, you avoid mentioning certain parts of your opinion because you're afraid they will hate you and the relationship will be damaged.
     
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  2. JoJo

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    Being intensely aggravated by simply someone having differing politic opinions than you and allowing that to cause potentially huge rifts into possibly any relationship you have with another person sounds like a symptom of a much, much larger problem.

    Either way, just like literally anything else that is related to your differences to another you accept them. You don't have to acknowledge that they're correct, that they're better or worse, etc. You just allow person x you like for z to harbor their views on what the fuck ever they want.

    This is a bit of a tangent, but: and it basically sounds like you're unable to take your head out of your ass and realize that another person's perspective on literally anything is typically based upon their life experiences, how they grew up, what kinds of things they studied, related to their personal philosophies, etc. You don't even account for the fact that being different from you can offer perspectives you haven't thought of, or even help evolve and refine the current things you believe.

    Anyways, this is all presuming that you liked the person prior to finding out their politic stances. I'm not actually sure if you're detailing this a current dilemma you're facing, but I'm assuming you are.

    But if you aren't, and all of your relationships with other people and start with politics and end with politics and you mistakenly befriended someone who is your political antithesis then that's on you. It's on you precisely for predicating literally any relationship on politics and nothing else.

    tl;dr

    either ur friend is different and that's ok cause u like hella other shit about them

    or

    everything in ur life is about giga autistic politics and ur an insecure beta who cant handle someone who isnt 1:1 on ur views

    which is where u should reevaluate everything about urself
     
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  3. Island Moderator

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    Just don't talk about politics.

    No.

    You don't see 1:1 with anybody and are almost always going to be ignoring/overlooking something you don't like about a person.

    As long as somebody isn't advocating violence or a flagrant conspiracy theorist, I can make a friendship work. Probably not best friend material, but it can work.

    I wouldn't tell somebody that I don't want to go to the bar with them because they disagree with me on America's foreign policy or how the economy should be managed.
     
  4. Ashi

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    This
     
  5. pfft

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    Most ppls political beliefs are detrimental to my race and my culture. I defend my life always and the lives of all Native Americans. Cannot for the life of me say that I can tolerate someone who is out to destroy my ppl, my lands,my life.

    But I’ll pretend to tolerate it for a moment in passing just to fucking get through the goddamn day. Just can’t see myself respecting someone’s political thoughts if they harm my way of life.
     
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  6. Sunrider

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    The thing about politics is that it's a bit fuckin' different from a casual opinion.

    I may like pineapple and pepperoni on my pizza and you may think it's heresy; you may prefer Madden with my favorite game being Pokemon... but at the end of the day those are the sort of differences that don't really do any harm to each other.

    Politics is different: It's more than simply the theater (the pivoting and promising we see representatives doing). Politics is fundamentally about how you think the world should work, how you think people should be treated. Politics is making laws saying Madden players gets certain incentives and Pokemon fans don't. At the root, it's basically the rules and who has to follow them, and where you stand on that comes from your core values.

    Short answer: no.

    Long answer: there's different levels of friendship. Some are cordial acquaintances with whom you share a common location (school, work, etc) and aren't enemies at first sight, there are the friendships with those you share a common activity (games, books, sports), and then usually the deepest friendships, with whom you share core values and a natural affinity.

    Usually, the first two can go unharmed so long as politics are never brought up, but once they're brought up it's really hard to go back. The third, it's just about impossible not to have political affinity.

    Unless you bend over backwards to ignore it, anyone with values diametrically opposed to your own will inevitably end in friction and conflict. The only time I think it's possible (and necessary) to set it aside is for work, on account of that whole trade-labor-for-survival- dynamic. And even then, if your boss's politics differ from your own such that they harm you and yours... well, it lends to a toxic work environment and something inevitably gives.
     
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  7. Island Moderator

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    I agree to with this to a degree.

    If somebody thinks that all LGBT+ people should go to the gulag, I can't be friends with them, but I don't hold a grudge because somebody has strong opinions on NFL players kneeling during the national anthem.
     
  8. Sunrider

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    It all depends on what the opinion is and how married they are to it in light of the details behind the kneel.

    It tells me a lot about their core values in relation to my own. It's a little different than, say, the next team Kyrie Irving chooses.
     
  9. Natty

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    Some people are able to be apolitical on many things, but others are not. Example: me or pfft.

    If somebody denies the existence or opposes any LGBT sort of thing, or hates people like me, I don't want to be friends with them. I'll let them know what I think, but if they still harbor that same opinion, I don't want to be near it. It's for my own sanity.

    It really depends on the severity of what view they have, but I don't really want to be close friends with people who's ideals/values don't line up with mine. I doubt many people do. I can be acquaintances at most, or be friendly, but I don't want to be close.

    If it's a current close friendship where they have a political stance where I think it's completely abhorrent, I'd have to reconsider what that person is really like. It could be a red flag for other things that I was blind to. It also depends on what it is, I'd be more willing to look over a flat earther's opinion than someone who doesn't want trans people to have treatment.
     
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  10. Harmonie

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    It would be interesting to be able to look at politics as just "opinions", but I don't really feel like I can do that. I am a part of more than one group that Republicans and Trump adamantly attack. Pre-Trump, I hated Republicanism just as much as I do now, but I was able to assume that most of the Republicans among me were still well-intentioned people were duped by Republican politicians who put on a nice facade over their despicable views. Now with Trump, that facade is gone. The raw true colors of many of my Republican acquaintances over the years became all too clear (I always knew that higher up politicians were like this, but not most of the people I knew). Most of them hid their more gross views about minorities away for years, but once Trump came onto the field they were suddenly very proud about it.

    These are not mere differences in "opinion" that one should casually set aside. I may not have a lot of respect for myself, but I sure as heck have more respect for myself than being "friends" with someone who both hates and denies the very existence of traits about myself that are out of my control and harm no one. That's not a friendship. You can't simply be friends with someone who is a part of groups you hate and vote to discriminate against. In the end, I'd just be that "See, I have a gay friend" they'd use as an excuse to fight back against people saying the individual is hateful right after they said "Homosexuals are just like pedophiles" and if you think I haven't seen that happen, you're wrong.

    I have a little more respect for myself than just being the token minority 'friend' for a hateful bigot. I'm not your 'friend'. See me as a person who is deserving of respect and rights like you, otherwise our 'friendship' feels very off and you being "nice" to me when we're talking comes off as very fake.
     
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  11. JoJo

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    this is not relevant to the line you quoted

    what i spoke was him directly revolving his life around politics, not his or someone else's inability to be apolitical

    this goes far beyond politics then

    i was going to add a disclaimer to my post about this but found it unnecessary, but i might as well say it now. If the person's """politics""" involves any form of legitimate bigotry or whatever else, then you shouldn't be friends with someone like that in the first place. I thought something like this was pretty obvious, but yeah, I guess it's worth it to actually say. If someone's views are completely abhorrent because it involves things like racism, religious intolerance, etc. then it's best to stay away from them. Because as you said, it's telltale for other things about them

    which is what I was mostly referencing. If you think abortion should be allowed and your close friend think it shouldn't, and everything else about them is perfectly fine, then why allow this one difference in opinion open a rift between you guys?
     
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  12. Ashi

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    To play devil's advocate here, it's likely because they do think certain political views/dynamic are abhorrent enough to be counted as character flaws.

    For instance, a lot of people take a stance against abortion as an attack against the autonomy females have over their own body.

    So yeah, I do agree that some opinions go beyond just the policy, but I feel like the lines get blurry to some people
     
  13. JoJo

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    i had a tl;dr written out, but i deleted it

    i rather not open up this can of worms here :monkathink
     
  14. Ashi

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    Good call bruv :monkathink
     
  15. JoJo

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    im not against PMing it to u, if u like :monkathink
     
  16. Ashi

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    I’d rather we save it for the league talk :monkathink
     
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  17. pfft

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    Pm it to me next

    I want to see the worms
     
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  18. pfft

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    I want that tldr @JoJo
     
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  19. Island Moderator

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    Reminds me of this:



    Somebody's political stances become a deal breaker the moment their stances are about the dehumanization of other people.
     
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  20. Drake

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    I don't really care about someone's political stances. If they can get along with me, then obviously whatever ideologies we may hold can't be that incompatible. And either way, I do not and have no desire to share the same values as all my friends, and I've actually changed some of my own stances from learning from people who think very differently from me.
     
  21. Keishin

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  22. A Optimistic

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    Having friends who have different political views is simply unacceptable. I simply mentally crush them until their way of thinking is the same as mine.
     
  23. Sunrider

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    Because that one difference can change the quality of life for roughly half the planet's population. It's not a small thing.
     
  24. JoJo

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    I never said it was small or pointless. I simply brought it up as a possible point of contention between two people where disagreeing on that doesn’t have to cause a major rift. The main point of it also ties in to what I originally said about how people hold views for various reasons, which is important for understanding the difference people have with each other.

    But if you think that someone’s opinion on that is enough for you not to like them and let’s you freely demonize them and give them your own mental labels without caring, then you do that.
     
  25. Sunrider

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    I'm confused. You seem aware that the issue is not small... so why wouldn't it cause a major rift?

    You keep framing it as only an opinion, as if the course of people's lives is as casual as how you tie your shoelaces.
     
  26. JoJo

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    Because in a realistic scenario where you don't assume the other person holds that opinion because they want to take rights away from women, then things change drastically.
     
  27. Nep Nep

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    If you're both adults then it's not hard to just brush off even the most heated debate.

    I know that's increasingly difficult as more and more people seem incapable of maturing into adults but yeah.
     
  28. Nep Nep

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    On the other hand that twitter post is a dismissal of opinion because someone doesn't share her race, gender, or orientation.

    Are we going to move all black issues to be voted only by black people?

    Are female centric issues only going to be voted on by females?

    The reality here is she doesn't want to hear opposing opinions and she just gets EXTRA salty when someone isn't the same as her AND disagrees. That's immaturity of the highest order.

    Yes a particular issue may affect you more directly than someone else but I'm afraid that's not a pass to hand wave away differing opinions.
     
  29. Worm Juice

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    I have some friends that have very different political and religious preferences. As friends that’s ok. I could never be in something more serious with those kinda differences.


    Sometimes I do discuss the topics we are disagreeing about. By keeping it respectful and just trying to understand each other we do get a new perspective on some views.
     
  30. Island Moderator

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    No it isn't.

    It's about situations where people have really strong opinions about things that don't impact them whatsoever and insist on "debating" with people who are. It gets tiring if you constantly have to defend your dignity from people who ostensibly want to debate the issue.

    I can't imagine that transgender people, for example, are particularly happy to defend which bathroom they get to use or women to defend why they should be able to decide what happens to their bodies.
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2019
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