Discussion in 'Outskirts Battledome Archive' started by Bender, Nov 26, 2005.
Can anyone kill the Godhand?
Can anyone? Are these guy's practically immortal?
lol... well, Skull Knight can defeated Void in end series...
remember?, Anyone never scratched to Skull Knight....
I love Slan , she is fucking hot... a wh0re g0d.
Bruce Lee, he can kick people 20 feet into the air
I messed up the title.. I mean't kill the Godhand
let me see, who is the strongest of Godhand?
I guess, here...
2.) Femto (Griffith)
Of course. Idea of Evil or any omnipotent being: Marvel and DC Cosmics, Lord of the Nightmares, Kami Tenchi, etc should be able to destroy them....but any "mortal" tied to the "material" world and by its physical laws is screwed against them...yes including DBZ cast, Hunter x Hunter cast, Naruto cast, etc.... The only "no omnipotent guys" i see able to hurt them are Shinigamis from Bleach...because their mystical nature.
And before you said: "but they will defeated by Guts at the end"....first...Berserk isn't your classic manga when you confront an evil group and then the boss. Guts could win a mental battle or a metaphysical battle against Griffith causing him turn against his boss.
Or like Skull Knight said....thanks to the brand and the armor Guts is "trascending" his humanity...so its no fair to said that "a mere human" will defeat them. I'm pretty sure that at the end of the series Guts himself will be godlike. Hell....SkullKnight was once a human and right now he is able to cut through dimensions with his sword.
I still stand by my beliefs that until I see more of the Godhand in battle, I would never consider them to be so much superior to most animes that they cant be touched
I honestly dont buy into this whole "because theyre Gods" or "because theyre tied by physical laws" reason. Apparently, Goku who is "tied" to the physical laws is stronger than the Supreme Kai who is a God/Mystical Being. Lucifer in his mortal and powerless form can outsmart and beat Gods. Dias from Shadow Skill was able to beat an otherwordly being even in his sick and weakened state.
And while the Godhand did show some feats such as Void deflecting back Skull Knight's attack with some sort of space, Griffiths making all the arrows miss and Griffiths deflecting back Gatts with just a stare, I dont think its enough to make them unbeatable by those "tied to the physical world"(which I dont think Nen in HxH is, btw)
Guys like Feitan from HxH can create a Sun and guys like Ubougin can take bullets head on and not even get a tan. Or how about the new characters introduced in HxH like Novu who has the powerful ability of creating a space of his own outside of reality itself. He can go in it by touching, for example, a wall or the ground which would act as a gateway. He can also go out of it and back to anywhere in the real world(which would seem like he's teleporting). He can also send someone in there and trap them. Another character is Shoot. Look at what he did to Killua:
Im pretty sure One Piece characters can also do something to them, especially the Logia users. Seriously, I can cite examples where people in the mortal plane have beaten Gods and Mystical Beings before. I mean look at Berserk itself, arent the apostles construed as Mystical Beings as well? And as we saw in the manga some of them were beaten by Gatts.
hehe made me laugh
Berserk manga spoiler-
Guts and the Skull knight Faught against Slan (well i dunno if you wanna call it faught, maybe rescued guts from being raped) and beat her, being a godhand she made a body for herself in this world that can be destroyed. However to harm her in hell would take alot more than most could give. I don't think anyone from Naruto/One Piece could harm her. Shes above Zodd and we know how class he is
To kill them they would have to be able to travel to different dimention, and have enough power to harm an immortal.
I'm pretty sure any sort of cosmic/borderline cosmic would be able to take a single one and be able to keep it down.
macgyver with peanut butter, jam, and a cd-rom containing interracial porn
The problem is that in DBZ, Gods weren't made to be omnipotent. Toriyama never established rules or laws concerning them. In reality they aren't too different to regular powerful guys from the Earth. They are more mages than gods. So...in DBZ the only measurement that you have always at the end is the amount of ki of the characters.
But in Berserk this is different. In Berserk Miura stated explicitally that if you haven't trascending your own mortality you can't harm them. You need to be "out of the tale" to harm them...like Skullknight said. Guts left the material plane when he was branded and right now he lives in the Interstice. (the space between the physical world and the Nexus, the place where Eclipse ceremonies take place) One Ego can only tranverse 3 layers (that is the reason because Guts could kill apostles in the Nexus. People who are part from the physical world can touch and harm guys from the Interstice (Guts, ghots, etc) and guys from the Nexus (Apostles). (given the right circumstances because normally the planes don't interact with each other)
But Godhand lives in the Vortex. So guys who are part from the physical world can't harm them. Guts because he lives in the Interstice could potentially harm them, but right now he hasn't even the power to lay a finger on any of them (like when he was repelled by Femto only with a glare). But Guts still can't do nothing against Idea of Evil, who lives in the Abyss. My guess is that the armor could make him trascend to reach even a more higher plane of existence.
this diagram explain better than my words XD
Remember Godhand control destiny. So they can alter the reality to cosmic scale. Griffith didn't simply "evade" the arrows....the arrows weren't "destined" to touch him. Even if you reach the same plane you have to deal with that. With the fact they can alter the reality at will, reorganize the matter and the space (like the black hole Femto created or when they create his personal pocket dimensions to do the apostle ceremonies)
Yup, I know that Miura explicitly stated that you have to transcend your own mortality to harm them, but how can you assure me that it works in other anime universes as well? I mean thats just like me saying that Togashi explicitly stated that NO ONE can harm a nen-user unless its another nen-user but does that statement also work on other universes? If you want to make it so that they also work on other planes of existence, then I will also say the same to Nen. I will say that no matter how powerful Goku is or Thanos or Galactus is they will never hurt a nen-user because they dont have nen. I honestly dont want to go that route, if you ask me.
Godhand controlling destiny? where was it said that they control it? I missed that. Griffiths making the arrows miss could mean many things, not just controlling destiny to make it miss. Godhand reorganizing Matter and Space? well Novu from HxH can also do that. Heck even Kakashi can also do that.
Thanos, Galactus and the other Cosmics are immortals, who you could say transended there mortality.
Control of Destiny is much more powerful than Matter and Space.
Chapter 83. Better know as the "lost chapter" when Griffith talk with Idea of Evil. Godhand control destiny through the power of Idea. They are Idea's tools but at the same time they are Idea's will. Thats why they are called the hands of god. They excute God's wishes in our world. Idea said: "I control destiny"...and then said to Griffith..."I dwell deep in your heart, i am a part of you...you are a part of your kind's consciousness, a part of me... your desire is my desire as well...your actions themselves shall prove to be suitable for your kind as a whole....may they bring pain or salvation to mankind"... so...the decisions of Griffith and the other members of the Godhand determine the way that Idea guides the world.
So...Miura doesn't say directly that Godhand's members control destiny but is strongly implied.
Aah, Yup Yup I remember this and to be quite honest my interpretation of it is not quite the same as yours. Personally, I dont see any indication in this quote that would lead one to the conclusion of Godhand controlling destiny. Idea himself said that he's the one who controls destiny. What Idea of Evil was saying here is that Godhand are the one's who carry out this changes in destiny. But the whole point of this quote by Idea is all about the outcome of what the Godhand does to the world, NOT the means to achieve that outcome. Meaning that the decisions of the Godhand on how to achieve a desirable outcome is entirely up to them, how they do it has nothing to do with Idea of Evil. Rather, it is the decisions of the Godhand on what the result will be or what they want to happen that makes them one with Idea of Evil, hence, the phrases "your desire is my desire as well"(not "how you do it is what I would do as well") and "your actions themselves shall prove to be suitable for your kind as a whole... may they bring pain or salvation to mankind".
So basically, that quote of Idea does not tell us how the Godhand changes destinies, it only tells us the result of that changed destinies caused by the Godhand and that whatever the result it may be is also the result that Idea wants. How the Godhand changes someone's destiny is a different issue, it doesnt necessarily mean that they control someone's destiny through manipulating reality. I cant quite explain it in English since English is not really my first language, so I'll just explain it through an example:
This is just a simple example: Lets say that the ultimate destiny of a guy named "Balthazar" was to die by the hands of a Minotaur, but the Godhand/Idea of Evil recognized that Mr. Balthazar will be a useful tool for them in the future. In this instant, when the time comes that Balthazar is face to face with the Minoutaur that is destined to kill him, the Godhand intervenes. Now when the Godhand intervenes they wouldn't just sit in their sofas and say something like "You Balthazar, will not die this day. So no matter how powerful the Minotaur is you will not be affected by his blows. And this is because I said so" and then POOF!!! it happens. Its not like that. When the Godhand intervenes, they will have to actually do something. Something like going into the scene of the fight and killing the Minotaur themselves or giving Balthazar a means to defend himself like giving him an axe, or a sword, etc, or they could power Balthazar up in order to defeat the Minotaur, they could make him an apostle for example.
This kinds of method is already enough to change someone's destiny.
And yes, I know my post might be confusing and I apologize in advance for that.