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Can Gohan and Piccolo reach a new form using the same method as he did during the Cell saga?

Discussion in 'Dragon Ball' started by MS81, Sep 10, 2018.

  1. MS81 Supreme Jounin

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    Can Gohan and Piccolo reach a new form using the same method in the hyperbolic time chamber?
    Remember Goku told Gohan that they were going to try to stay in ssj state as long as possible so that it can feel normal being in that form?
    What if Gohan and Piccolo power up to their full powers while being in the hyperbolic time chamber?
     
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  2. Fang Well-Known Member

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    Piccolo training with Gohan a few hours before the Tournament of Power shot up from a level around a tired Frost to holding his own with a semi-full powered SS2 Gohan before he got his Ultimate form back and even stronger. Its theoretically possible.
     
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  3. MS81 Supreme Jounin

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    I honestly believe that piccolo was stronger than ssj2, remember that skills don't necessarily trump raw power in dbz.
     
  4. RAGING BONER Sexual Tyrannosaurus

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    ofc he can...but he needs to stop reading books and start getting angry again.

    As for Piccolo; just make a zenkai wish to Shenron and tell Goten and Trunks to blast you to hell repeatedly for a few weeks.

    both of these things can be done in the time chamber.

    Then once they're both at the appropriate level, harass Whis for a while for further improvement.

    it's honestly more of a Goku/Vegeta are the top dogs and everyone else is a bitch writing problem tbh
     
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  5. MS81 Supreme Jounin

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    I totally agree with you bro!!!:del
    I just want to see everyone flourish in the series.
     
  6. ChadtheGoat Well-Known Member

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    Sayans>Nameks Forever.

     
  7. Shinto23 Member

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    Goku and vegeta are too iconic and they are trying to keep it as safe as possible to not upset their fanbases to rake in the money. I doubt piccolo is popular enough to warrant him being brought to goku and vegeta's level and most of gohan's popularity is linked to his child-pre teen version as his teen/adult character has always been very controversial in japan (see him dropping out of the top 5 altogether in the buu arc popularity poll). Toriyama also does not seem to want to do anything with gohan or to care about him, he likely thinks that to have goku and vegeta as the strongest he must get gohan out of the way to not risk him upstaging them as toriyama has not (yet at least) retconned gohan having the most potential out of the earth-based saiyans. I would like gohan and piccolo to be major characters again as much as the next person but sadly i think it is a pipedream.
     
  8. Roman Heart of Fire

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    I've actually been wondering why Goku and Vegeta haven't already tried it tbh.
     
  9. Pilaf The Man in the Rain

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    Piccolo could fuse with someone else, I suppose. It's the way he's gained most of his significant powerups in the series. With Universe 6 being opened up for exploration and future story lines now, it's a bigger possibility.
     
  10. MS81 Supreme Jounin

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    You're bugging if you think popularity is what keeping the authors from making their other characters develop...:hmpf
    Look at Gohan in the manga, he's definitely as strong as a fused character.
     
  11. Roman Heart of Fire

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    Toyo isn't as affected by character popularity as Toei because most people watch the anime. Thus, Toei is more likely to follow popular opinions when deciding which characters to push to the limelight. Besides, Gohan had a lot of great moments in the anime as well, not to mention Roshi gave fucking Jiren a good fight.
     
  12. Hawk9211 Well-Known Member

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    Confusingly looks at future trunks,17,roshi.
     
  13. Shinto23 Member

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    With future trunks and 17 it was an one-off thing as they are not mainstays of the regular cast unlike gohan and piccolo and future trunks is more popular than both piccolo and arguably gohan (Yes i know gohan placed third in the Dragon ball forever poll and trunks fourth but i bet most of the votes for gohan were for kid and preteen gohan). Roshi was given relevancy due to his experience in the manga but was not buffed up in power to goku and vegeta's level. The best we can hope for gohan and piccolo is for them to receive the future trunks and Android 17 treatment for an arc but that is about it imo. If Gohan was to receive a push as a fighter for more of an arc then the logical route in light of his potential would be for gohan to surpass goku and vegeta and toei and toriyama do not want that. Piccolo is also one of those characters whose popularity relies more on his personality and on his character arc rather than on his power at least going by how he was still fifth placed in the buu arc popularity poll as he was in the cell arc poll despite having been retired as a fighter so i do not think that piccolo's fanbase in japan is strongly demanding a power-up for him. Of course i would love to be wrong.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2018
  14. Claudio Swiss Well-Known Member

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    U can still have gohan and piccolo get stronger without shitting on goku and vegeta niggas need to understand that
     
  15. Shinto23 Member

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    That is true but i feel that as far as gohan is concerned at least toriyama thinks that gohan can not be a major character again because he would end up surpassing goku and vegeta. I am just going by how toriyama has been treating gohan ever since he got absorped by super buu and got replaced as the mc. As for piccolo i do not think his fanbase is vocal enough to demand a big power-up.
     
  16. ChadtheGoat Well-Known Member

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    Make Gohan Great Again.


     
  17. Hawk9211 Well-Known Member

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    @PlainWarrior is more than enough.
     
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  18. PlainWarrior Well-Known Member

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    That poll put Kid Trunks and Future Trunks together.

    Gohan and Piccolo are more popular than Future Trunks.

    Piccolo was 5th strongest and was 5th in that poll so he is was in his strength position Power will always play a big role in a character's popularity.

    We need a new popularity poll anyway.

    Since when did Piccolo retire as a fighter?

    There is no reason why Toriyama can't give any character a power up. He just has to create the story for it.
     
  19. OLK Well-Known Member

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    You all overstate this. Roshi exhausted himself dodging a few punches. Jiren had enough and karate chopped his ass to oblivion. Was barely a fight
     
  20. Shinto23 Member

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    Future trunks was more popular than piccolo in the cell arc as he placed third in the cell arc popularity poll while piccolo placed fifth. As baby trunks was a background character with no personality in the cell arc the votes had to be for future trunks. And seeing how kid trunks has been completely sidelined in super and placed in the kid-appeal character role while future trunks got to star in his own arc in the anime i guess most of the votes for trunks in the buu arc popularity poll and in the dragon ball forever poll were for future trunks as well. Hence this is why i think future trunks is more popular than piccolo.Also Gotenks was fourth (iirc) in the buu arc popularity poll and as gotenks has pretty much the same personality as kid trunks i guess most of the people voting for trunks in that poll meant to vote for future trunks. As for gohan he was at his peak far more popular than trunks but he also dropped in the buu arc popularity poll to sixth in his adult version so it is likely that future trunks is more consistent popularity-wise. Gohan also placed higher than trunks in the dragon ball forever poll but just like that poll put future trunks and kid trunks together the poll included all the gohans (future,kid, pre-teen and teen/adult). Anecdotally at least in the west many gohan fans prefer kid\pre-teen gohan to his teenage\adult version and seeing the reception gohan got in japan during the buu arc current gohan in his ultimate state there is perhaps not even as liked as he is in the west. It is not like they can regress gohan back to when he was a kid hiding power he was not able to control or have him surpass goku's level, both of which were factors behind his popularity in the cell arc . Likewise gohan's treatment in super must not have done him any favour so he may as well have dropped below future trunks in popularity seeing how his disappointing moments stick out in the memory more than his glory ones at least for the anime watchers. As for piccolo he was pretty much retired as a fighter in the buu arc as in he played a mentor role to goten and trunks teaching them the fusion and did not directly take part in any fight and yet his popularity was not hurt. He was brought back as fighter in super but in the buu arc he was pretty much retired as a frontline fighter. Piccolo's strenght compared to the kids was unclear in the buu arc so he may as well have been sixth strongest for all we know. Popularity is influenced by strenght but it relies also on factors such as perceived coolness or cuteness otherwise you would not be able to explain why goku, vegeta and trunks were more popular than than the stronger gohan and gotenks in the buu arc popularity poll or why dende was more popular than cell in the cell arc popularity poll.
    I agree with the need for another popularity poll to gauge the characters' current popularity. It is up to toriyama to give a character power-up but as you said a serious power-up leaving no ambiguities as to the character's standing in the pecking order needs a storyline behind said power-up. Currently it seems that the only storybeats toriyama can write for gohan is "the one who will surpass goku" (which we know he won't) or "that guy who is detached from fighting to the point he only joins the fighting when he absolutely needs to" as it was the case with rof and the universal survival arc. The universe survival arc gave Gohan motivation to push himself as a fighter by teasing him wanting to reach another form and this was picked up by the manga in a way so that may have been in the outline but we do not know if and to what extent toriyama wants to involve gohan in the future and the fact gohan has not yet appeared in trailers for the broly movie does not exactly boost one's optimism for gohan's future relevancy in the franchise. Gohan could be very well written as having the most potential and as a frontline relevant fighter and yet not surpassing goku and vegeta due to him handicapping himself by training with lesser masters and\or by forsaking the chance to go through the ritual for an ideological reason. The problem is that toriyama does not know and \ or want how to involve gohan. We do not know why but him fearing gohan might overshadow his cash-cows goku and vegeta and not knowing how to give gohan relevancy and a power-up without him being the strongest might be a reason. So i feel this has both to do with goku and vegeta having to reign supreme to appease their fans and with toriyama's writing limitations.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2018
  21. Fang Well-Known Member

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    He had no fights after the Cell Games, even with 7 years of training and improving. The introduction of Trunks and Goten pushed him and Krillen out of the main supporting roles in the Buu Saga. Let's look at what Toriyama did for Piccolo in the final part of the original story:

    - Concedes to Shin in the World Tournament despite obviously being stronger then Shin
    - Cut Babidi in half and nearly killed him
    - Spends the rest of the story instructing and training Goten and Trunks and buying time for them in the Room of Spirit & Time so they could perfect the fusion dance against Buu
    - Sits on the sidelines watching Gotenks and Gohan fighting Buu
    - Gets absorbed
    - Gets freed then dies with everyone else when Kid Buu blows up the Earth

    Did Super do him some justice? Sure comparatively though:

    - Fights a weakened and tired Frost at the Tournament of Destroyers
    - Trains Gohan back into shape twice (after Revenge of Freeza arc and again during the prologue after the exhibition matches 24 hours before the Tournament of Power arc started)
    - Manages to hold his own with a no longer rusty Super Saiyan 2 Gohan (beats him because he lets his guard down like Goku always does but effectively Gohan had "won" before hand)
    - Fight a weaker guy from universe #10 who was below Obuni who Gohan fought and beat
    - Fighting universe 6's Namekians, Saonel and Pirina (who Gohan still was largely responsible for beating and even saving his life) which is probably his best moment
    - Getting rung out by bug
     
  22. PlainWarrior Well-Known Member

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    He didn't retire though and his main focus in his life is still training and fighting. He was the only person Goku asked for the tournament who said yes straight away and Goku knew he would.

    The others have essentially stopped and focus on other parts of their lifes instead and even Tien is semi-retired as he focuses on his school.

    Just because a character is not the strongest and doesn't participle as much in big fights it doesn't mean they are retired. Piccolo will always be there to fight and that will always be first for him.

    It is probably why he is in the film and not others and he is always ready.
     
  23. MS81 Supreme Jounin

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    This right here!!!
     
  24. Milkomeda Well-Known Member

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    Easiest way to get Gohan a new form is roll another android head his way
     
  25. lol 4th dimension reiatsu Well-Known Member

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    Nah, diminishing returns.

    Just use the ancient namekian book of legends (remember that shit?)
     
  26. PFM18 Well-Known Member

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    The training before the ToP is not how he got to SSJ2 Gohan level, that was attained by the training prior to that day, this was established immediately upon their training commencing. Piccolo had been training more prior to that training day, and so he was superior but by the end of the session Gohan had attained his Ultimate form and could go toe to toe with SSB Goku. And why do you seem to think that there's a clearly large difference between Frost and SSJ2 GOhan?
     
  27. MS81 Supreme Jounin

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    Piccolo actually beat Gohan after he got his ultimate form.
     
  28. Fang Well-Known Member

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    He lost against Gohan and whom thought the fight was over until he blasted him in the back while his guard was down.
     
  29. PFM18 Well-Known Member

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    Not at all. Gohan was superior in his Ultimate form and when he trained further in his Ultimate state then he really surpassed his old Ultimate self.
     
  30. MS81 Supreme Jounin

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    Which means that piccolo won...:hestonpls
    Spoiler: Here's the answer
    he let his guard down when the fight wasn't over:oldshrug
     
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