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Can Hakke64 be avoided with Sharingan ?

Discussion in 'Konoha Library Archives' started by auau, Jul 12, 2005.

  1. auau Member

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    Well... well... hopefully this thread doesn't turn into another flame war between Byakugan and Sharingan fans.

    Anyway, pretimeskip Neji has a 4 in speed. Sasuke has 3.5 and he also has the 3 tomoe Sharingan.
    Being Hakke64 a bloodline jutsu, can Sasuke dodge it ? So far, we've seen it used twice against Naruto and Kidoumaru and it works although they both have contingency plans. From what we've seen, a triagram was shown with Neji in center, and if his opponent is inside of it, he said : "You're within range of my Divination..." Maybe it means that if his opponents is inside of it, it is unavoidable ?

    Kidoumaru has a speed of 3 by the way and he wasn't able to dodge any of the 64 hits. Sasuke has 3 tomoe Sharingan though.
     
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  2. Nighthawk Banned

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    Yup. Sasuke can avoid it with his three-tomoe sharingan.
     
  3. Code Zoamelgustar

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    Nope. Sasuke cannot avoid it with his three-tomoe sharingan.
     
  4. Esponer Brief Intermission

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    Yeah. Sasuke can avoid it with his three-tomoe Sharingan.

    /Edit/ Well, to keep the theme of the last few posts, anyway... I'd imagine it would be a bit of both. He wouldn't be able to avoid the entire attack, but he'd be able to dodge enough to render the Hakke Rokujuuyonshou ineffective ? half a centimetre dodged on each attack would be enough to protect his tenketsu, at least.
     
  5. TenshiOni Active Member

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  6. Hef Night Work

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    Sasuke might be able to see the hits coming before they hit. And that's it. After a split second, he would feel them too.
    So yeah, slower Sharingan user can't really dodge it. But if the Uchiha is faster than the Hyuuga, then why not? :oh
     
  7. jemakai Active Member

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    If Kidomaru, who isn't use to close range fights and has a 3 in speed, was able to say"oh shit", break his web out his mouth, and react to hakke by producing armour then hakke won't be geting near Sasuke with his sharingan on.
    First, Sasuke has Lee speed which he copied during the chuunin exam so he can match Neji's 4 in speed. I don't know why this is even a question. Sasuke dodged both Kyuubi Naruto and Kyuubi 2 Naruto's attacks, is some how much Neji in hakke faster then these two? What would Sasuke see when he looks at Neji about to perform hakke? He will see the first set of attacks coming before Neji even leaves his stance, how can he not dodge it(assuming he isn't stupid)? The logic that he some how will be hit by Neji yet wasn't touched(except by independent chakra) by either of Kyuubi Naruto forms makes no sense.
     
  8. lwong81 Member

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    I think Sharingan can't copy speed, if he can, why not just copy neji's 4 speed.
     
  9. SaiST 鎧袖一触 Retired Staff

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    I don't believe anybody here said it could copy speed. The question is, is Sasuke fast enough with the abilities of his Doujutsu to avoid the "Hakke64"?

    I think he is. At least fast enough to prevent his Tenketsu from being struck during the attack.
     
  10. mftrunks Fourth Tomoe Sharingan

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    and lets not forget, that Sasuke is capable of Lee's speed now. So yes he could avoid it.
     
  11. Kamendex Retired from Forum

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    Ya, he probaly can avoid it now
     
  12. auau Member

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    Look at chapter 194 pg 2. It says : "Unavoidable! Neji's ultimate technique strikes Kidoumaru!"

    Seeing the attackes coming may not help Sasuke in how to dodge it though because the Hakke64 is a bloodline jutsu. Both Naruto and Kidoumaru were able to see it coming as well.
     
  13. Core Member

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    Sasuke is capable of Lee's weight speed I believe. (I would have to watch the Sasuke Gaara fight again)

    And Kyuubi Naruto's individual attacks are faster than Neji's, but his rate of attacks is not faster. Neji makes a ton of attacks in a few seconds with hakke. I would imagine Sasuke could defend against half or more of them, but Sasuke is not used to attacking fast like Neji, neither is Lee. Just because he can see it, does not mean he has the body to counter it. Even if only 1 or 2 tenketsu are closed Sasuke will still feel it. Imagine if tenketsu in Sasuke's shoulder were closed, wouldn't that disrupt his ability to use chidori?

    Oh, and it does not take long to say activate spider freaks armor, compared to Sasuke being able to dodge every attack.
     
  14. HomerHT A Happy Turtle

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    Well, from where we've seen Neji use it, his opponent has to be in a certain position from him, making it a highly specialized attack that can only be used when the opponent is in that position. However, it appears that once the person is in that position, Neji can somewhat freeze them in place...probably has something to do with the ying-yang (was that anime only? I can't recall). Think about it, why wouldn't Kidou or Naruto just jump out of the way? Neither was actually engaging Neji in hand-to-hand, they got caught in a jutsu.

    *shrug* It is, of course, open to interpretation, but I think you see my stance on it. Once caught in it, you probably can't escape. Makes me wonder what other jutsus could do, though...Yondaime, anyone?
     
  15. ShounenSuki Ruler of Penguins

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    I don't think Sasuke could avoid it. Maybe if he got a lot faster...
     
  16. SaiST 鎧袖一触 Retired Staff

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    Why would that matter? It's not like Sasuke's trying to copy it, he's reading and "defeating" it. The Sharingan can do that to almost all jutsu, regardless if it's bloodline or not.

    Kidoumaru and Naruto were both put in disadvantageous positions before they were struck with the Hakkeshou Rokujuyonshou. Naruto had just been knocked down by Neji's Kaiten, and Kidoumaru was recovering from a failed attack. Not to mention that both their speeds were quite below Neji's.

    They may have seen the technique's opening stance, but it's quite unlikely that they could have avoided it once it started.
     
  17. GSurge Brilliant Punk

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    Nay. Sasuke cannot avoid it with his three-tomoe sharingan.
     
  18. Artuir RIP Jiraya :(

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    You can't answer this question because it hasn't happened yet. It makes me wonder if Sasuke will wind up fighting Neji when he returns. Either way the fight will be amazing to watch I am sure.
     
  19. CrazyMoronX Old Man

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    We all know that the prediction of movements of the Sharingan makes you invincible, I mean seriously!
     
  20. shintebukuro Well-Known Member

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    Sasuke could definitely avoid it.
     
  21. Devilguy Darkness over 9,000!!!

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    Although most fans would like such a fight, it would be worthless plot-wise. As we won't see Sasuke as much as in part 1, his scenes have to be meaningful. When he reappears I doubt his first fight will occur with someone of that level.
     
  22. Konoha'sWhiteFang Man of the Instantaneous Pants

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    Sasuke might be able to avoid 63 of the attacks, but if he is hit with only one of them its good night for sasuke. Not instantly, but with his chakra cut off, and no back up chakra like naruto, it would only be a matter of time. People seem to forget that it is not just one attack, it is 64 independent attacks that move really fast. Sasuke is good, and he might be able to avoid the majority of the hits, but one is all takes.
     
  23. Crisco All Ur Jutsu Are Belong To Us

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    I think its highly circumstantial. Here's what I mean.
    Sharingan can predict movements, but that doesn't mean that Sasuke's body can keep up with what he sees.

    And it's been stated that Neji is faster than Sasuke.
    However, in my opinion a difference of .5 is not a huge difference. And as someone started even if he moved maybe 2-3 cms to the right, Neji would be missing all the points.

    However, at the same time, Neji is watching where the points are, its not like he's memorizing the exact distances of the 64 points. But he is in essence watching each point and aiming, so even if Sasuke doesmove, Neji probably won't miss.

    Also, from what I've seen, Neji doesn't use that ability unless he knows it'll be successful. What I mean is, when someone finished a jutsu and is recovering, or he's stunned, or in other words the opponent has a "delay" where he basically can't recover fast enough to dodge Neji's attack.
     
  24. jemakai Active Member

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    The chapter title's say alot of over exagerated things. One title said Neji is a shinobi without equal, when we know of shinobi's that equal and surpass him. Use your head, the move was infact avoided by Kidomaru. Avoided doesn't mean dodged, it means he skiped or bypassed the attack which he did with his armour.


    DO NARUTO AND KIDOMARU HAVE LEE SPEED AND SHARINGAN? NO.

    Both Naruto and Kidomaru were slower then neji thus were likely to be hit. They don't have any form of prediction and yet Kidomaru was still able to react before hakke was landed. Hakke is a move that needs a set up, Neji can't just perform it out of no where and expect to hit. He also poses for a fairly lengthy amount of time then attacks, do you people honestly think his moves are faster then Kyuubi 2 Naruto? What sense would that make? To have complete sharingan Sasuke dodge every physical attack Kyuubi 1 and 2 Naruto through at him yet neji in his normal form, after posing for a couple of seconds, can level him with 64 hits? :S
    Basically this is what we know, Sasuke with a complete sharingan has faced faster opponents then Neji and didn't get touched(except for independent chakra which Neji doesn't have); in all likely hood Neji just can't move fast enough relative to Sasuke to get past Sasuke's prediction.
     
  25. Nidaime-Sama Member

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    Hard to say, but if you read my folklore thread and the definition of divination, it?s not something you can easily avoid.

    Divination:
    1. The art or act of foretelling future events or revealing occult knowledge by means of augury or an alleged supernatural agency.
    2. An inspired guess or presentiment.
    3. The supposed insight into the future or the unknown gained by supernatural means. 2. A skilful and accurate forecast.
    4. The study of the movements and relative positions of celestial bodies interpreted as an influence on human affairs.

    Also with Kidoumaru it doesn't matter what speed level he was, because he did not dodge it. "My golden spider is a form of metal that instantly solidifies once it touches the air blocking all chakra." That's a huge difference from actually physically dodging it, besides when Neji was about to perform the move he expalins how it escapes giving Kidoumaru plenty of time to send his chakra armour out, which he would since he knows what gentlefist is.
     
  26. Malthara Leaf Ninja

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    Sasuke was able to see kyuubi naruto's speed with many images before he even got close, it was like slow motion, then he was still able to see kyuubi naruto 2's speed just couldn't predict the chakra. I figure his eyes are fast enough to see them they are just arm extensions. Kakashi watched lee's full lotus while everyone else was like where are they until someone shouted above. Now that sasuke has a high speed body he probably could, now that 128 hakke didn't appear in the manga [so doesn't exist as far as we know] but if the hyuuga style had stuff like that where different variations were faster/slower then that could be because there are people fast enough to evade their divine punishment.

    I figure it depends on the individuals, if hinata tried a 64 point hakke, probably rock lee could evade it. Not saying she's slow but she's probably slower than neji, and rock lee evaded that jutsu of kimimaro's which is like high speed thrust creating shadows of the older attacks and attacking under them. With reflexes alone a high speed user could probably evade a hakke. It doesn't even look that fast lol, he's always like.. 1,2.. 3,4.. and then it starts getting abit more serious.
     
  27. Core Member

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    Jemakai did you completley skip my post? Naruto was faster, but Neji has a much higher attack rate. When the attack only comes every once and awhile then no he will not have trouble dodging/blocking when 64 attacks come within a few seconds, he might. Sasuke is not a god who can dodge any attack, hakke is one of the fastest taijutsu attacks in the series.

    And we do not know how fast spider freak could activate his armor, it may be like Gaara's already on?

    Also, Lee speed does not mean you can dodge stuff like that, Lee still got beat by Neji everytime.
     
  28. knowledge New Member

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    With equal or greater speed and the sharigan you can dodge any taijutsu attack.

    period.
     
  29. Malthara Leaf Ninja

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    Naruto's speed doesn't matter when dealing with the neji fight, when he was hit by hakke he wasn't in kyuubi mode so he couldn't have even tried to dodge. If your not hit by any of the initial moves i figure you could just keep dodging the rest, maybe get into a groove lol. 64 repetitive attacks yes, but they are just 2 hands being extended at you agian and agian he could go left, right, left right etc I think someone could dodge or after dodging a few just completely jump to the side neji'd have to chase you. I figure sasuke could do it since he can see them before they extend at him and if it appears like slow motion [refers to the slow naruto filling in his preimages before being punched by sasuke] when even kyuubi naruto is attacking him i figure he could do it. Just dodge a few and jump away.

    Also we dont know naruto is faster than neji, probably but neji has a high speed stat, his style is one where you just stand there and take on all challengers so he doesn't run around that's it. His byakugan senses all attacks within 50 meters so it's good to be stationary and just react. Even haishi didn't move when all those sound ninjas surrounded him he just stood there and expanded his kaiten, it's not their style to run around but neither of them really have a slow speed stat. Neji can use the shadow leaf dance in the databook it says only him, lee, and sasuke can the top genins since it's a high level move so we figure he's pretty good outside of jyuuken.
     
  30. Core Member

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    Any ATTACK... no plural. This is a flurry of attacks in a short time period.
     
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