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can kakashi successfully “kamui gg” without being in a group setting?

Bonly

Well-Known Member
Kakazu comes up

When was that a 1V1? Last I checked that was 4V2 then a 3V1 then Naruto popped up.


Pain also comes up

That turned into a 1V2 pretty quick then turned into a 5(or so) Vs 1. Hell at the end when everyone was damn near dead he did pull it out against Deva when it was just them two and tricked Deva so actually yeah he did use Kamui there!


Seven ninja swordsman would have been nice, it was team setting too which makes it more likely

So I mention him not having many 1V1s and you mention him with a whole division vs the swordsmen?


V2 jins would have also helped considering he would have walked them from going Bm which would have been fatal if not for Naruto.

Another mention of a team fight, neat.


He DID have 1 v 1 fights, and also team fights as well. He had plenty.

Well no shit sherlock lol of course he had 1V1 fights that's why I said "Kishi didn't give Kakashi many 1V1 fights" instead of saying that Kishi gave him no 1V1 fights.


Of course anyone who says he just won’t pull it out is trolling

Though it is highly unlikely he pulls it out early or mid game, it’s always been a very late game attack. That’s been a habitual occurrence with Kakashi. He doesn’t kamui GG until he’s alreayd forced into a high diff after a long battle

If this wasn’t the case, Kakazu would have died early, Pain wouldn’t have outright killed Kakashi, the seven ninja swordsmen wouldn’t have stalled him for 13 hours, and at least 1 of the jins would have gone to boxland.

The first thing Kakashi did against Deidara was use Kamui. The first thing Kakashi was gonna do against Obito was use Kamui. The first thing Kakashi did when he found out that the Gedo was gonna turn into the Juubi was use Kamui. The first thing Kakashi did when Madara summoned the Gedo was use Kamui. Then there's the entire time fight where Kakashi spammed Kamui from the mid way point of the fight. So factually you're wrong in saying it's highly unlikely that he'd pull it out early or mid game.
 

Orochimaru op

大蛇丸
When was that a 1V1? Last I checked that was 4V2 then a 3V1 then Naruto popped up.

That turned into a 1V2 pretty quick then turned into a 5(or so) Vs 1. Hell at the end when everyone was damn near dead he did pull it out against Deva when it was just them two and tricked Deva so actually yeah he did use Kamui there!

Another mention of a team fight, neat.
He used it against Pain as a defence not an offensive, I never said he wouldn’t use it defensively.

Why is he more likely to use them 1 on 1 vs a team fight? That doesn’t make any sense. Him continously holding it back in team fights only proves my point even further

He actually chased Deidara for a long time before even beginning to charge up kamui

Gedo Mazo certainly wasn’t a 1 v 1 and not even much of a fight between him and the statue, he was backed up by thousands of people. One minute ur telling me my points aren’t valid because they are team fights but then you cite examples of Kakashi using it when he’s backed up by more shinobi then in my examples


whaaaaaaa
 

Bonly

Well-Known Member
He used it against Pain as a defence not an offensive, I never said he wouldn’t use it defensively.

I never claimed you said he wouldn't use it defensively. My point is that he barely had 1V1 for him to use it in a 1V1 fight. You then brought up Pain upon which at one point in time he did use it, whether it was offensively or defensively.


Why is he more likely to use them 1 on 1 vs a team fight? That doesn’t make any sense. Him continously holding it back in team fights only proves my point even further

Or maybe it could be a case that the niggas got better with his MS and was more willingly to use it more as he got better mastery of it hence why you see him spamming it in his fight against Obito alongside Naruto and Gai and was happy to use it so willingly afterwords.

He actually chased Deidara for a long time before even beginning to charge up kamui

But did he throw any attacks at Deidara or was his first attack against Deidara Kamui? It's the latter.


Gedo Mazo certainly wasn’t a 1 v 1 and not even much of a fight between him and the statue, he was backed up by thousands of people.



"Though it is highly unlikely he pulls it out early or mid game, it’s always been a very late game attack.That’s been a habitual occurrence with Kakashi.""

Since all you've done is mention team fights, I too used team fights to disprove your wrong claim so you back tracking and using 1V1 now doesn't help you.

But where was the thousand of people when Obito started to turn it into the Juubi? Last I check it was only 5 people there. Where was the thousands of people when Madara summoned the Gedo out of Obito's body? Last I check it was only 3 people there. So I'm not sure where you're getting this Kakashi was backed by thousands of people during the two times I'm referring too.


One minute ur telling me my points aren’t valid because they are team fights but then you cite examples of Kakashi using it when he’s backed up by more shinobi then in my examples


whaaaaaaa

You trying to disprove my points while using team fights because of what you personally think, is irrelevant to my actual point that you quoted. Again look at what you quoted. How does you naming team fights like Kakashi and his division vs the 7 swordsmen matter to me saying there isn't many 1V1 fights with Kakashi? Therefore when it comes to that specific point, yes your points are not valid.

Now me responding to you saying

"
Though it is highly unlikely he pulls it out early or mid game, it’s always been a very late game attack. That’s been a habitual occurrence with Kakashi."

Is now a different point because you saying "it's always" and "habitual occurrence" means that you are referring to all fights for Kakashi in part two. Which again goes against my actual point that you quoted might I quote. So just to prove you wrong I provided multiple times he actually did use Kamui early or mid way through a fight.
 

zaddyxx22

surrounded by ignorance
so can kamui be used to hit something with an unknown trajectory? unlike Pains nail or deidaras explosion but something that can dodge or change trajectory?
 

zaddyxx22

surrounded by ignorance
Some of the responses here reduce the overall IQ of the forum by statistically significant standards.

Suppose Orochimaru was flying towards Kakashi instead of Sasuke's V3 Susanō arrow.
orochimaru has the ability to change trajectory by dodging tho
 

zaddyxx22

surrounded by ignorance
Kakazu comes up

Pain also comes up

Seven ninja swordsman would have been nice, it was team setting too which makes it more likely

V2 jins would have also helped considering he would have walked them from going Bm which would have been fatal if not for Naruto.

He DID have 1 v 1 fights, and also team fights as well. He had plenty.

Of course anyone who says he just won’t pull it out is trolling

Though it is highly unlikely he pulls it out early or mid game, it’s always been a very late game attack. That’s been a habitual occurrence with Kakashi. He doesn’t kamui GG until he’s alreayd forced into a high diff after a long battle

If this wasn’t the case, Kakazu would have died early, Pain wouldn’t have outright killed Kakashi, the seven ninja swordsmen wouldn’t have stalled him for 13 hours, and at least 1 of the jins would have gone to boxland.
or maybe he just can’t use it without a team buying him time or using someone else’s chakra as an amp. because kamui would have been invaluable in these situations but the thing is all of these people have the ability to simply dodge
 

zaddyxx22

surrounded by ignorance
Yes. If you consider the mechanics of his Kamui, you'd know that being in a team-setting means absolutely nothing. If he can use Kamui in a team-setting, he can use Kamui solo; if he can use Kamui defensively or as support, he can use it offensively.
except he has never been shown to do so by himself, his best feats alone are warping things with set trajectories that don’t have the ability to change that trajectory
 

zaddyxx22

surrounded by ignorance
He has warped things without a team assisting him or something boosting him. Saved the group from Deidara's explosion, warped the nail Deva sent at him, warped the missile shot at Chouji, warped a susanoo arrow. All of these were done either where teammates did nothing to assist the act or he was by himself.

Whether or not he would be able to warp an opponent depends on who the opponent is, what the setting is, intel, the circumstances, etc.

Against someone like Onoki who he hardcounters to hell and back, he could potentially warp Onoki after letting Onoki use jinton on a clone(Onoki can't see what's happening inside the jinton cube(or whatever other shape, so he's not going to know it was a clone), then warp him when Onoki thinks the fight is over. But wouldn't make any sense to choose kamui over just stabbing Onoki with raikiri, throwing a raiton kunai at him, whatever else. Onoki lacks intel to know Kakashi has such an ability, his own fighting style makes him susceptible to clone feinters, and Kakashi is top tier in the manga in clone feinting.

You take, say, konoha shinobi who are going to be aware of his clone feinting reputation/abilities, and a strategy like that becomes a lot less viable. The likes of Itachi, Jiraiya, Tsunade, Gai, Naruto, etc are going to know Kakashi is tricky and the fight is pretty much never going to be that simple.

Like I noted though, most scenarios(clone feint, maybe using a raiton bunshin to paralyze the opponent) that opens them up for an easy kamui snipe also opens avenues of killing that are far less taxing on him than kamui, and using kamui makes no sense. Which leads in to the next point..

You then have to take in the factor that Kakashi doesn't want to go blind. His reluctance to use kamui would have to stem pretty much entirely from that(with a small portion towards the draining effect it has on his body) I feel. If he loses sight in his sharingan, he loses the ability to accurately use kamui, loses raikiri, can no longer just copy/match the ninjutsu of his opponent, etc.

Which is why in character, Kakashi only uses kamui if he has no other choice.

So in an in character fight, the chances Kakashi just starts the fight with kamui is at practically 0%. Exceptions are made for characters he knows he can't hang with(Madara, as a canon example), but 99% of the verse he's going to exhaust all of his other options before going to that. When it comes to later in the fight and he's realized that he needs it to win, well, most characters are going to have things like summons, mass aoe ninjutsu, LOS blockers, using their top speed, etc that make that extraordinarily difficult.

In summary, can Kakashi effectively use kamui without help from others? Sure, depending on the setting. Is he going to use "kamui gg" as a strategy? Only in a last ditch, it's his only hope of winning scenario, and by that time it's entirely opponent and scenario dependent upon how likely it is to work.
how do you explain him never warping anything that can willingly change trajectories or dodge?
 

Architect

A Minato stan from Minatostan
it’s not setting the best example to put out claims with no evidence.
Like hell I care about setting an example. I come, tell the truth, and move on.
And if you don't know what the post is referencing to, then you don't know your subject.
And if you do and still have questions, then you are either a hypocrite or probably have a smooth brain. But don't worry, there are a lot of people like you I see regularly here.
 

zaddyxx22

surrounded by ignorance
Like hell I care about setting an example. I come, tell the truth, and move on.
And if you don't know what the post is referencing to, then you don't know your subject.
And if you do and still have questions, then you are either a hypocrite or probably have a smooth brain. But don't worry, there are a lot of people like you I see regularly here.
who pissed in your cheerios this morning?😂 if you don’t have an argument just say dat🤙🏾
 

Ayala

Well-Known Member
Why does he need to be in a team to use a MS tech with a Sharingan that Obito said he had perfected? Does Itachi need to be in team to use Amaterasu or Tsukiyomi? Does Sasuke?

Kamui is what the eye does, team is not a requirement.
 

~Kakashi~

Well-Known Member
how do you explain him never warping anything that can willingly change trajectories or dodge?
He did. He took away the gedo mazo's arm, right as it was being summoned/moved by Madara. He's also able to use kamui so fast on an object the size of a human body(Naruto's clone) that .

If it's a huge object that can move extremely fast or is teleported, like in the case of the gedo mazo, there's a potential the aim of his kamui could be off(thus him only taking the arm). But if he can use kamui so fast on something the size of the human body that not even Obito realizes what happen, most things he encounters that can change trajectories/dodge aren't going to be able to do it in the extremely brief period of time between the beginning of the warp and it completing.
 

GrandBenja

Well-Known Member
He did. He took away the gedo mazo's arm, right as it was being summoned/moved by Madara. He's also able to use kamui so fast on an object the size of a human body(Naruto's clone) that .

If it's a huge object that can move extremely fast or is teleported, like in the case of the gedo mazo, there's a potential the aim of his kamui could be off(thus him only taking the arm). But if he can use kamui so fast on something the size of the human body that not even Obito realizes what happen, most things he encounters that can change trajectories/dodge aren't going to be able to do it in the extremely brief period of time between the beginning of the warp and it completing.
Makes you wonder why he didn't even consider trying to use it on Madara himself.
 

~Kakashi~

Well-Known Member
Makes you wonder why he didn't even consider trying to use it on Madara himself.
I assume you mean JJ Madara? In which case I guess Kishi gave us the explanation that he was practically blind at that point in his sharingan and had to be extremely close to effectively use it. And as we learned from Minato getting slapped and Gai only being able to survive a very short period of time due to being the greatest taijutsu user in the verse, getting close to JJ Madara is a death sentence.
 

GrandBenja

Well-Known Member
I assume you mean JJ Madara? In which case I guess Kishi gave us the explanation that he was practically blind at that point in his sharingan and had to be extremely close to effectively use it. And as we learned from Minato getting slapped and Gai only being able to survive a very short period of time due to being the greatest taijutsu user in the verse, getting close to JJ Madara is a death sentence.
No, I mean before that. When he attempted to "snipe" the Gedō Mazō, why didn't he go for Madara himself instead? Or even better, why didn't he "snipe" Madara even before, while he was still blind and wounded by the Bijūs?

Was Kakashi already too blind to go for a human-sized target?
 
Yes it’s be silly to imply otherwise

I promise guys there’s a middle ground between Kamui sniper gg Kakashi and he‘ll never use the move against my fave because he only uses it in teams
 

~Kakashi~

Well-Known Member
No, I mean before that. When he attempted to "snipe" the Gedō Mazō, why didn't he go for Madara himself instead? Or even better, why didn't he "snipe" Madara even before, while he was still blind and wounded by the Bijūs?

Was Kakashi already too blind to go for a human-sized target?
I'd have to reread the section to be able to recall with 100% accuracy, but if my memory serves me right, he and Minato were staying with Obito while Naruto, Sasuke and others went to deal with Madara. Madara called upon the gedo mazo which I think like came out of Obito's body or whatever, Minato told Kakashi to deal with it, he went to use kamui and it was right as Madara was summoning it so he only got the arm as it was teleported away to Madara's location.
 

GrandBenja

Well-Known Member
I'd have to reread the section to be able to recall with 100% accuracy, but if my memory serves me right, he and Minato were staying with Obito while Naruto, Sasuke and others went to deal with Madara.
That is correct.
Madara called upon the gedo mazo which I think like came out of Obito's body or whatever, Minato told Kakashi to deal with it, he went to use kamui and it was right as Madara was summoning it so he only got the arm as it was teleported away to Madara's location.
Indeed.
With that said, wouldn't it be hard to believe that Kakashi had the means to take down Madara, yet didn't even attempt it because he was "staying with Obito"? Madara is obviously a major threat. After being resurrected, he breaks free from Hashirama's restraints, then steals his Sage Mode, then recovers his first Rinnegan… Everyone could see when the plot was going, as Madara was gaining more and more powers. Would it really make sense that Kakashi didn't even try to stop him with Kamui, if we assume that Kamui would have had a realistic chance of succeeding?
 

~Kakashi~

Well-Known Member
That is correct.

Indeed.
With that said, wouldn't it be hard to believe that Kakashi had the means to take down Madara, yet didn't even attempt it because he was "staying with Obito"? Madara is obviously a major threat. After being resurrected, he breaks free from Hashirama's restraints, then steals his Sage Mode, then recovers his first Rinnegan… Everyone can see when the plot is going, as Madara was gaining more and more powers. Would it really make sense that Kakashi didn't even try to stop him with Kamui, if we assume that Kamui would have had a realistic chance of succeeding?
Not sure what reasoning would be given for him not trying it on Madara/going to Madara. Certainly not the first time a character didn't do what would have made the most sense. Hell, not even close to the first time with just Kakashi, like why didn't he just stab Kisame or Itachi with raikiri when he showed up to help Asuma and Kurenai? Just sneak attack them like he did Kakuzu in the immortals arc. Or why not stab Deva Path in a similar fashion? Or at least if he was worried about Iruke getting impaled even if he did stab through Deva, just cut his arm off with raikiri.

In the end, who knows.
 

GrandBenja

Well-Known Member
Not sure what reasoning would be given for him not trying it on Madara/going to Madara. Certainly not the first time a character didn't do what would have made the most sense. Hell, not even close to the first time with just Kakashi, like why didn't he just stab Kisame or Itachi with raikiri when he showed up to help Asuma and Kurenai? Just sneak attack them like he did Kakuzu in the immortals arc. Or why not stab Deva Path in a similar fashion? Or at least if he was worried about Iruke getting impaled even if he did stab through Deva, just cut his arm off with raikiri.

In the end, who knows.
Essentially, Mr Kishimoto made Kamui too powerful, so he had to nerf it with character "stupidity"? I suppose I can't argue against that.
 

~Kakashi~

Well-Known Member
Essentially, Mr Kishimoto made Kamui too powerful, so he had to nerf it with character "stupidity"? I suppose I can't argue against that.
He nerfed a lot of characters/techniques with stupidity. Like why Deidara didn't just suicide bomb constantly as a edo. Or why Naruto didn't just use an odoma rasengan and take Obito's head off instead of just knocking his mask off. Or why Kakashi didn't stick a kunai or raikiri in his gut instead of punching him in the gut, etc.

Find all sorts of "why didn't you do X/Y/Z" in this manga.
 

Devil_Jin

Well-Known Member
:zaheer

The literal first showing of the justu is exactly what you're denying along with many others

Also it's mighty ironic for a sakura fanboy to talk about outliers and a Tsuande fanboy about team settings
 
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