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Chiyo vs Base Kakashi

Discussion in 'Naruto Battledome' started by Bonly, Nov 8, 2018.

  1. Bonly Keyblade Master

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  2. Buuhan ⋄ C I N D E R ⋄

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    She gets a raikiri to the chest. I’ll add more later once I’m off mobile.
     
  3. Speedyamell Respect hardwork

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    Chiyo wins.
    Base kakashi is jonin at most. Chiyo is at least low kage.
     
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  4. Godaime Tsunade Well-Known Member

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    Chiyo is too nimble and skilled in taijutsu to ever be blitzed by Kakashi. Her chakra shield protects her from Raikiri if it comes down to it, but her evasion should suffice.

    Access to the 10 Chikamatsu Puppets means she will always have the numbers advantage - Kakashi’s Kage Bunshin would be wrecked if they attempted to match her puppets in a spar.

    She’s a tier above this Kakashi, he’s outmatched.
     
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  5. FlamingRain Living Legend Moderator

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    Kakashi should win as long as he aims for Chiyo herself instead of trying to destroy each of her puppets first.

    He can break line of sight with a Doton wall or by hiding behind one of the large rocks on the field, then attack in waves from underground using his summoning dogs and a Raiton doppelgänger. Even if Chiyo notices in time to dodge the first attempt to grab her she's probably not going to remain in a position where none of the other dogs or the clone could catch her at some point afterwards.

    She shouldn't be able to just sling the dogs off of her if Zabuza couldn't, and either striking back against or blocking the doppelgänger would result in Chiyo being stunned (the Chakra shield is still attached to her). That and with her attention being drawn away from her puppets the real Kakashi would be able to close in too.
     
  6. MaruUchiha The Fourth Six Paths

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    Chiyo either gets blitzed and turns into Rin or her and her puppets get shredded by Raikiri Cable
     
  7. Architect of the Works of Beauty

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  8. JuicyG Well-Known Member

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    Sharingan genjutsu ftw Chiyo has no counter.

    Kakashi low diffs
     
  9. Bonly Keyblade Master

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    I like how you didn't Base Kakashi(no Sharingan) and then Kakashi with the Sharingan but you make a point to constantly point out that base means no Sharingan for characters such as Itachi and Sasuke.
     
  10. JuicyG Well-Known Member

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    It seems to be futile since every thread made about "base" included 3T, despite my efforts to suggest that base was without sharingan altogether.

    So 3T kakashi wins

    Hokage Kakashi would also win because he is more developed.

    But Base (no sharingan) WA Kakashi loses.
     
  11. Matto Chosen One

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    When has Kakashi ever defeated any character of note with Sharingan: Genjutsu? Let alone one as experienced and skilled as Chiyo.
     
  12. JuicyG Well-Known Member

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    Kakashi has canonically used sharingan genjutsu to sleep an Anbu (typically Jounin levels) with a quick glance in part 2. In the war arc his he was able to resist Obito's sharingan genjutsu (just to give an indication of his own proficiency concerning the area).

    Being skilled or not doesnt matter, what if any, genjutsu resistance (especially that of the sharingan) has Chiyo demonstrated?
     
  13. Crimson Flam3s Rampage Sage

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    Good thing Chiyo herself pretty much mentioned that vs the Sharingan, at the very least in her case, is either have a partner or die. Kakashi's proficiency is therefore irrelevant according to her but even if it was, what feats does Chiyo have to suggest she can contend with Sharingan strong enough to neg Obito's genjutsu attempts?

    OT: Kakashi mid diff at worst.

    Chiyo is getting the good old Itachi/Pain treatment of a surprise clone through doton underground and at that point she likely dies to a raiton clone, or regular raikiri kunai wielding clone, take your pick.

    When you are skilled enough to feint the likes of Pain while outnumbered and having dual linked vision, it's gonna be hard to argue for lesser characters not to get the same treatment.
     
  14. Orochimaruwantsyourbody Well-Known Member

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    Indeed. People like Kakashi/Konohamaru who can feint Pein can easily beat Chiyo level fighters.
     
  15. Gifted Well-Known Member

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    He took out two Anbu Black Ops members with Sharingan Genjustu and said Anbu are capable of breaking out of Kabuto's A Rank Genjustu which bitched 100's of people at once.
     
  16. JuicyG Well-Known Member

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    And used it to beat Zabuza during their first match in part 1
     
  17. Gifted Well-Known Member

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    Oh yeah forgot that one
     
  18. Gifted Well-Known Member

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    Anyways Kakashi's physical speed dosen't change when his sharingan isn't activated and i doubt chiyo can react to someone faster than V2 Jins in terms of speed.
     
  19. Zero890 Well-Known Member

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    Chiyo wins, ten puppets kills Kakashi quite easly. He can not fight with ten puppets with artefacts that can attack in several directions at the same time.
     
  20. Sage light Well-Known Member

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    Kakashi wins due to better fundamentals, and physical speed.
     
  21. Crimson Flam3s Rampage Sage

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    I am glad you brought up Konohamaru, it further goes to show that even if Chiyo was so good that Kakashi was totally outmatched, Brain vs Brawn will always have a clear victor, and we know which one Kakashi has always represented.
     
  22. Matto Chosen One

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    Anbu are weaker than any named Jounin. Part 1 Kabuto slaughtered multiple with ease, and he's far below the likes the Chiyo.

    If I'm to believe Kakashi can defeat Chiyo with Sharingan: Genjutsu, never mind "low diff" her with it, I'm going to need something better than that example. Kakashi has had more fights in the manga than everyone but Naruto and Sasuke. Yet, he's not once defeated a Kage-level fighter with it - he's never even pressured one with it.

    Obito played Kakashi like a fiddle during their exchange so that he could be freed from Madara's influence. Doesn't play to your argument.

    Disingenuous argument. Chiyo was relaying general wisdom to Naruto and Sakura ("It was said..."), not stating she cannot fight anyone with the Sharingan.

    Kakashi also did not "neg Obito's genjutsu attempts." He played right into Obito's hands and did exactly what Obito wanted him to do.

    You know who were also capable of breaking Kabuto's Temple of Nirvana illusion? Part 1 Sakura, Shikamaru, and Shino.

    If you're going to claim that Kakashi can soundly defeat someone of Chiyo's level with Sharingan: Genjutsu, you better bring better arguments than that. But unfortunately for Kakashi fans, his track record in his numerous fights does not support him here.
     
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  23. Crimson Flam3s Rampage Sage

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    By her own words, Chiyo's general wisdom seems to apply her. Or are you gonna bring up the scan of her anti-genjutsu feats or statements implying she is excluded from the general population?

    Obito did not force him to do anything under a Genjutsu and every single last one of them was seen through. Why bother fighting the man and risk a Raikiri through the skull when you are capable of making him submit to your desires with a casual glance?

    What you are saying is nothing new really.
     
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  24. JuicyG Well-Known Member

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    > Asked for examples of Kakahi using Sharingan genjutsu
    > Was presented Zabuza and Jounin level Anbu
    > Provides no feats of chiyo resisting genjutsu at all, let alone sharingan genjutsu
    > implies a characters subjective tier placement grants them undisclosed ability to resist genjutsu... just because.

    The burden of proof that Chiyo can instantly resist sharingan genjutsu and not get killed a moment later is on you.
     
  25. Matto Chosen One

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    I asked for examples of Kakashi defeating characters of note with Sharingan: Genjutsu. So far, no Kakashi supporter has delivered.

    His feat against Zabuza doesn't suggest he could defeat Chiyo. He used hypnotism to distract Zabuza so that he could cast his technique first, as opposed to dropping him on the spot. That strategy wouldn't work on Chiyo. Anbu are weak and are not worth discussing; they're fodder.

    I don't need to provide feats of Chiyo resisting illusions. Kakashi, despite his numerous on-panel fights against Elite Jounin- and Kage-level fighters has never - not once - defeated an opponent with Sharingan: Genjutsu. In fact, his Sharingan: Genjutsu has never been a factor in battles against Kage-level ninja. Almost none of his opponents have shown/been stated to have resistance to illusions or Sharingan: Genjutsu either, yet it was never a factor in their battles with Kakashi.

    If you're going to argue against a firmly established track record in the manga of how the author has actually written his fights concerning Kakashi, you are the one who needs to bring solid evidence of your claims. The lack of on-panel feats of Chiyo countering illusions is not evidence.
     
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  26. Fleet Admiral Akainu A.K.A. Frank Grimes

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    No counters to makibishi spikes. Chiyo dies.
     
  27. JuicyG Well-Known Member

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    I'll take that as a concession then

    Chiyo has no resistance feats to genjutsu, at all

    Meanwhile Kakashi does have feats of using sharingan genjutsu

    Gg. Case closed.
     
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  28. Zero890 Well-Known Member

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    I don't think so, Not even someone like Hidan or Kakuzu with zero Genjutsu feats had problems with that. While Chiyo has a good knowledge of the Sharingan and the Genjutsu.
     
  29. Architect of the Works of Beauty

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    so true. It's beyond me why so many people ignore or oppose that.
    Moreover, that was a genjutsu fight, meaning Kakashi was both at defense and offense.
     
  30. sabre320 Well-Known Member

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    The kakashi downplay is embarrassing...bos sakura with her physical stats was able to evade and outmaneuver sasaoris puppets which easily outmatch chiyos...then you have war arc kakashi who was literally outmanoeuvring ,and outperforming v2 jinchuriki in cqc skill amped by shared vision and sharingan precog and landing clean hits...this is a feat that far far outweighs chiyos puppets like its not even close....

    how the hell is chiyo supposed to react to these levels of reactions and speed? but people will try their best to ignore this feat and pretend kakashi is the same as part 1....then we move onto her shield which has no feats to claim it can block a srank penetrating technique that is raikiri.....

    then there is the fact that chiyo was so wary of basic sharingan genjutsu that she considered facing even a general uchiha alone crazy and kakashi is a prodigy who had his dojutsu prowess praised by both itachi and madara etc...has genjutsu feats to oneshot jounin and later went on to stalemate freaking obito in a genjutsu battle [aka the guy who put a perfect jin into a permanent genjutsu....]

    Finally we are completely disregarding that kakashi is the best of the best when it comes to bunshin fenits and can sneak up to veteran akatsuki such as kakazu with zero difficulty and land a killing blow...he was able to catch freaking iitachi with a bunshin feint twice who is already a master at it and is the top tier in tactics and intellligence...

    Chiyo has no chance here.
     
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