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Classic Beyonder - Most powerful being created by Marvel.

Discussion in 'Comics Battledome' started by , Oct 21, 2006.

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    I have been looking through a couple of forums, and this is one who really don't have any clue about who Beyonder was, Before he was retconned.

    I am about to tell you a little about the Beyonder, from Secret Wars.

    Beyonder and Molecule man was at first beings who had no connection with the Marvel Multi-verse, you could call them invaders.





    Then Beyonder enters...
    Molecule man was stated just to have a smal fraction of Beyonder's powers.





    The entire Watcher race agrees that to interference with the Beyonder is unheard of.














    This is only because Molecule man was present in the Multi-verse at the same time, and he had a fraction of Beyonder's powers.



    But no beings in the Multi-verse can scale Beyonder's and Molecule man's power, so they think that they are equal.








    But wasent the Beyonder millions of times more powerful than Molecule man?
    - Indeed, the only reason the battle didn't end with a blink was becase:


    -- Than we have some other information.











    Isn't it cool to say something like that and really mean it?



    And here it goes.









    (the thoery of that every atom-core is a star and the electron's are planets, astroids ect.)



    Best feat for the last: He could have shatter the entire time-stream - In other words, make so the Multi-verse never existed.

    Oh yeah, for the Phoenix fan's.





    Anyhow.
    Anyone who read the original books knows what he once was and that he was basicly absolute in power.

    And Stan Lee stated in an interview:
    So if you scale his power he would be at the same level as TOAA is now.


    You can't be above the power of the wrtiers.

    Oh sorry, I just find out on search that this have been done before.
    Sorry. -- Moderators can close this.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 24, 2006
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  2. Rice Ball

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    Yeah there was a few threads about just how powerful pre-retcon beyonder is.

    The answer is stupidly powerful, note the reason why he was retconed :)
     
  3. Endless Mike

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    Sorry, no.

    Beyonder gave half of his power to Dazzler.

    This proves his power is finite, since half of infinity is meaningless, it's still infinity.

    Finite power loses to infinite power.

    TOAA > Beyonder.
     
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    The thing that proves that TOAA equals the Beyonder at that time, I am fully aware of him being just above Eternity now.
    Is that Stan Lee himself stated:
    Plus, when he gave Dazzler the power he:


    But I agree, it was wierd.

    But then again, he took the power back.
     
  5. Endless Mike

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    The fact remains that he lost some of his own power by giving an amount to someone else.

    This also happened when he used a large amount of it to kill Death.

    This proves he is not omnipotent.
     
  6. Comic Book Guy Retired Staff

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    SSJ4 Mikael? That you?
     
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    He didn't lost power when making Dazzler omnipotent.

    Limitations . . . Remember his very imagination became reality.
    Read through the post's carefully.
     
  8. Endless Mike

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    Yes, he stated he gave her half his power, and that weakened him.
     
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    Yes... However, it was a long time since I liked Dragonball therefore I use Michael Demiurgos' (from Vertigo) name.
     
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    Hmm... are you positive?
    I will have to re-read that, and if nessecery put up a scan.

    ... Anyhow, the only reasonable explination for that:
    Limitations. -- Besides he took Dazzler's powers back didn't he?

    The point was, he was Marvel's supreme being at that time.

    And as Stan Lee stated, he had the power of the writers.
     
  11. Endless Mike

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    No, TOAA was, and always has been, Marvel's Supreme Being. A quote from Stan Lee regarding the symbolism of the Beyonder does not suddenly make him truly omnipotent.
     
  12. Comic Book Guy Retired Staff

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    Understandable. You didn't strike me as a Lucifer reader though.

    You plan staying on these boards for long? You might run into jplaya2023 later.
     
  13. Id

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    I believe PR Beyonder was one top 3 most powerful under TOAA.
    But how does he compare to the True Living Tribunal and not the M-Body, or the Primal Force or to a lesser extent Phoenix of the White Crown (and not just the Phoenix Avatar’s) is something that could never be answered.
     
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    Ahh, just solved the Dazzler half of Beyonder's power problem.








    Guess who he is gonna take on after that . . . I'll give you an hint, it's the most powerful beings (after him of course).
     
  15. Comic Book Guy Retired Staff

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    Pre-Retcon Beyonder would most likely be above them, back in those days.
     
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    Oh, I'm sorry: Forgot to post this one (This was before Beyonder entered the Multi-verse).



    So.
    Even Molecule man was superior to every being in the Multi-verse at that time.
    But when Beyonder came, he defeated Molecule man with just a fraction of his powers.
     
  17. Comic Book Guy Retired Staff

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    Question: Should I refer to you as SSJ4 Mikael or Michael Demiurgos?

    Question: Are you reading Beyond! ? A Beyonder appears there.
     
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    1. Mikael or Michael is ok. Easier to type as well.

    2. Nope, I've just started reading the Infinities series, with post retcon Beyonder. But I will check that out.
     
  19. Id

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    You see here is the case and point I bring into those three.
    True Living Tribunal has never made an appearance in the 616 universe. Yet we know multiverse being, we know he is in charge of maintaining order threw out the Multiverse, we know he has abstracts of himself (M-Bodies) to help him do his job, but on top off that it was stated that the True LT is second only to TTOA.

    Then we have the Case with Primal Force. The Primal Force itself has never made an appearance the way PR Beyonder or True LT (for that matter). We know he is a multiverse being, we know it is in charge of the destruction and creation of every universe as well as appointing abstracts for every knew universe (Death, Eternity, Galactus etc…). Yet for every plane of reality he has his appointed his own abstracts ( Phoenix
    Avatar’s). And to end all matter it was also stated that the Primal Force is second only to TTOA.


    You can say PR Byonder is more powerful then LT (M), Phoenix Force…hell even Phoenix of the White Crown would probably not be a match…But Those 3 have never met each other, and have bin ranked 2nd only to TTOA.

    Unless its stated Some ware that PR Beyonder is TTOA or has met and defeated (even if its of panel) True LT or Primal Force. My judgment leads me to belive they are equal with PR Beyonder, with Beyonder having more panel time; their fore a better feel of what a True Cosmic is capable of.
     
  20. Comic Book Guy Retired Staff

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    Alrighty. I'll refer to you as the former.

    Ah. Note, Beyond! is on-going limited series. Just started recently.
     
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    Actually Id, you just see theirs head's and the abstract's wouldent likly put the M-body's so close to eachother...

    And it isn't the manifastations of the head's that speaks.
     
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    You missunderstood when Phoenix was stated to be the second most powerful force.
    They meant second to the Living Tribunal.

    Isn't this cute.

     
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    If you read all the pages I posted in my first post (in this thread) you will see that Beyonder was second to no one.
     
  24. Id

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    You are misunderstanding me. It was the Primal Force (not the Phoenix Force) was stated "second only to the TTOA."

    Also if you think about it Phoenix accomplish a task (the hard way yet saving the planet) instead of the LT?s way of sealing and destroying everything (when he can).


    And last LT is an abstract with no host. While Phoenix Force is an abstract with a host (an Avatar really). While both have equally important jobs and rival each other in power. The Phoenix Force is limited by the capacity of his host.

    Now I want to ask you. Do you believe PR Beyonder is TTOA, or equal to TTOA???
     
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    The Phoenix Force is Multi-versal.
    White Phoenix is a universal being. - Like any other Phoenix.
    The only thing she ever did was editing her universe's future.




    I really don't know where the White-Phoenix-is-Multi-versal bull comes from.
    But at least those who have read the series knows the truth.

    "The Phoenix Force is a manifestation of a primal force of the universe which derives from the psyches of all living beings in the universe."

    And to answer you're question:
    Yes I do belive that Beyonder (at that time) was as powerful as the One Above All/Supreme being/Creator/God is now.

    Stan Lee stated back than that he had the power of the wrtiers, so I belive he had.

    The thing is, the Living Tribunal attacked Thanos w/ Heart. Therefore we know it was just an Manifastation body. -- But the Living Tribunal and the other abstract's feared Molecule man and Beyonder.
     
  26. Id

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    I have no idea who stated Phoenix of the White Crown is Mulitvere being.
    But Jean (As the Phoenix Force) did stop the destruction of the Multiverse when the M'Kraan Crystal became unstable.


    And I interpret Stan Lee’s words as he has the power of the writers or in other words he can bend, and twist reality at a Mulitiverse level. But its not stated He is equal to TTOA, when it is said (or hinted) that TTOA is the writer itself.
     
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    I know what you mean, and I find it reasonable.
    But what more can the writer really do, tear the comic?

    Beyonder was stated to be able to be able to erease the entire time-stream (first post), that would mean that all other comics would turn non-canon.
    Since there would never be a Multi-verse.

    However it's hard to really say. -- But I belive he had that kind of power.
     
  28. Id

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    You see I don not doubt you, and I do believe Beyonder can do to the Multiverse as he please.
    But because it is stated that LT and PF are second only to TTOA and not Beyonder.
    I believe they would be the only ones to survive from Beyonder?s Multiverse destruction because of priority, rank and power given to LT and PF.

    Primal Force - To destroy, Create the Multiverse as well as appoint abstract entities for each universe.

    Living Tribunal - To maintain the balance threw out the Multiverse.
     
  29. Endless Mike

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    You didn't post the scans I was talking about, I meant when Beyonder gave half his power to Dazzler. Also when Beyonder killed Death. Those both weakened him.

    TOAA = Infinite, Beyonder = Finite
     
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    As I said, if you possess infinity power and you "limit" yourself you will automaticly have finite power, but even with this "finite" power the abstracts feared him.

    The manifastation of the Living Tribunal attack Thanos w/ Heart.
    Because one manifastation is just a fraction of the abstract's power.

    But when standing next to the Beyonder all the abstract's trembled.
     
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