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Creation vs. Evolution

Discussion in 'Perspectives' started by Kyon, Jun 3, 2007.

What do you believe in?

  1. Evolution

    82.1%
  2. Creation

    2.6%
  3. Intelligent Design

    5.1%
  4. Don't care/Undecided

    10.3%
  1. Kyon

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    In many topics here in the debate corner, I've seen a few degenerate into Creation vs Evolution debates, so I've created this to alleviate the offtopic-ness from those topics and to have a staging ground for this debate. Intelligent Design will be included as well for believers of that.

    Personally, I believe in evolution if only because it seems like a great leap of faith to just say "God did it" to every problem and because of some key problems I see with Intelligent Design (mostly because it compromises a Christian's beliefs in order to believe it, so they may as well just believe evolution). It is more satisfying to me to find out why things have happened.
     
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  2. Hwon

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    Topic should have really been Genesis or Biblical creation vs Evolution. Evolution can be a form of creationism and really if you believe in God you have to believe in some form of creationism.
     
  3. DarkRaven7789

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    Dont change the subject.
     
  4. Mintaka

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    Shut it he brought up a good point.
     
  5. DJ-Kage

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    Is there really a debate here? I mean, you live in 21st century... You see how the face of the earth changes... You can see how the people nowadays are built differently from people 1000 years ago... You have very sound theories on how the solar system was created...

    And you still believe that it was made in 7 days by a bearded guy turning on the light? Huh?
     
  6. Kyon

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    Evolution being a form of creationism is Intelligent Design (Guided Evolution, Theistic Evolution, etc.), correct?

    I addressed ID in the first post, and that it can be a debated viewpoint (hence the poll option for it) so it shouldn't be a problem, though the title of the topic may be misleading. I assumed that Creation would imply Genesis/Biblical Creation, but you are right in that respect.

    However, as far as ID goes, you can't really call yourself a devout Christian if you believe it, IMO, but it does make the middleground between the two theories, so to speak.

    If what you're talking about has nothing to do with ID, let me know. I'm not exactly all that intelligent (The fact that it's 2 AM and I haven't slept in forever is not helping) so I might have missed the point entirely.
     
  7. AbnormallyNormal

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    i really dont think there is any reason to even pretend creationism or intelligent design are science, theyre obviously crackpot nonsense, why even bother daring to place them on equal pedastel with science
     
  8. GrimaH

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    They're not really nonsense :sag
    It's just their only evidence is holes in evolution theory and quotes from 2000-year-old books :sag
     
  9. Fuujin

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    Personally I believe in evolution. A major reason for that is because people are smarter now than 2000 years ago and what may have seemed like miracles a long time ago may have been exaggerated over the years, it happens regularly with myths and legends over long periods of time. So in my eyes there's a lot more proof in the evolution theories because it gives solid reasoning rather than stating things which you are expected to believe in with blind faith.
     
  10. impersonal

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    Correct, but the problem is that you cannot answer the poll with both evolution and intelligent design. Someone who believes in intelligent design most of the time doesn't believe in evolution, so it would lead to unclear answers. And as it is a public poll, I bet those who believe in "evolution with God supervising" will just not vote at all.
     
  11. AbnormallyNormal

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    they are nonsense if you think about what their actual claims or theses are, and basically they all employ a double standard of uber sketpcisim towards evolution but ZERO skepticism towards their own "theory"
     
  12. Distracted

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    should be in any bodies favorites if they have to deal with the idiocy creationism.
     
  13. Hwon

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    Better yet here is a christian site dealing with the idiocy of creationism. This way they can't call it a biased atheist site.



    This site pretty much crushes all the creationist claims against radiometric dating.
     
  14. CJC

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    Evolution ftw.

    Creationism = lol
     
  15. Esponer

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    The very question of this thread is senseless. Evolution, neither microevolution nor macroevolution, is not the converse of theological creation. The logical converse of a god creating the universe is no god creating the universe: creationism contrasts with naturalism. There are numerous grounds upon which could conceivably fail to accept evolution, and a certain interpretation of divine creation is only one of them.

    I cannot vote in this poll, nor comment on this thread, unless I understand what precisely is being questioned. Are you asking which is the more logically sound premise, that evolution occurs or that evolution does not occur and the universe is created by a god? That abiogenesis (not evolution) explains the source of life on Earth or that direct creation by a deity does? Or even that the universe was created as is by a deity, contrasted with the idea that the universe developed blindly and with no directive from simplicity over billions of years?

    Creationists occasionally attempt to dispute evolution using an argumentum ad ignorantiam fallacy which fails to support their case even were they able to dispute evolution successfully, and in doing so they fail to recognise that evolution only happens to have as part of it a disproof of Young Earth creationism — it is not the converse of their argument. Let us not be fooled by Young Earth creationists into believing that there is a fence with creationism on one side and evolution on the other.
     
  16. AbnormallyNormal

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    good post esponer, and i agree. creationism is not a real alternative view to evolution for many reason, including differnt categories of explanation
     
  17. Giorno Giovannax

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    I believe in both. God created the earth, animals, and humans and then evolution took its course, and hence why we are much different than our ancestors. It's that simple or unless you want to prove to me that a baby can give itself birth. Again, the Bible never denies evolution, just says that God created the earth and the stars but it does not mean evolution never occured since the Bible is not a scientific book but a book that talks about the relationship between man and God and the teachings of Jesus.

    The problem arises when people are trying so hard to disprove one another that they fail to realize that there is no need to disproof anything because both creationism and evolutionism go hand in hand since they are in fact TWO different processes. Creation creates, then evolution takes what was created and makes it better, makes it easier to adapt to certain things.
     
  18. drache

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    I have to agree with others here, the nature of the topic is a little hazy because it's not impossible to believe in both God and evolution. In point of fact as others have stated the other threads were about creationalism as a science vs evolution. Where creationalism is the literal interpration or something close to that of the gensis account. Until I better understand what this thread is about I'm just gonna lurk.
     
  19. Giorno Giovannax

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    Layman terms:

    Creation: I create you according to a certain blueprint and you now exist

    Evolution: Okay, well there will be some environental changes and we will need to make some changes on you from time to time.

    No where does it contradict itself and it supports itself. Again, what the fuck.
     
  20. Hwon

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    lol... see I said this title should have been Genesis vs Evolution now everyone is confused.

    He ment biblical creation or Genesis and not general creationism.
     
  21. Giorno Giovannax

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    It's the same thing really, except that God is responsible for it. That is all there is to it.
     
  22. Esponer

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    So where's the option for "neither"? No definition of either of these terms results in the union of the two sets being 1, so there must be an option for believing neither. If evolution is for some reason containing within itself abiogenesis or even naturalism, then I believe neither of the two.
     
  23. Kyon

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    I did mean to place in a neither/both option and refer to Genesis, but apparently when I made the topic my brain wasn't working.

    :arg
     
  24. Juanita Tequila

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    I really don't care. Questions like these are just far to complex for my brain to handle.
     
  25. Tokokage

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    I find it funny that there's two different options for creation and "intelligent" design, we all know they're the same crap with different labels stuck to them. Anywho, I'm gonna choose observable evidence (evolution for the laypeople).
     
  26. Mintaka

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    Keh heres my veiw on "creationism" Evolution was becoming a very popular theory and was also becoming accepted by mainstream sceince for it's ideals however the church saw this not only becoming somewhat of the norm but being taught in schools, of course they can't have soemthing as "godless" as that running around so they came up with there own bullshit theory called creationism and then threw it into the sceintific community in hopes of ousting evolution in favor of there views thus halting the progress we've made and throwing it back a few thousand years...

    Translation: They felt threatened by evolution and decided to throw the old GOD DID IT argument/bullshit into the scientific community in a new wrapping called creationism.

    It's things like this that make me loathe the church trying to involve itself in science......
     
  27. Yakushi Kabuto

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    I simply believe that something must have started everything, but that something didn't have to stick around to prompt things to develope into the way they are.
     
  28. spudrow2005

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    an amusing fact i learned is that that catholic church doesnt deny that evolution occured but they deny that the world didnt come into being without the influence of God. in other words they say that evolution of man could have happened if it was god's will.
     
  29. Kuroyoru_Kanji

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    I believe and support evolution all the way. It is impossible for me to imagine a super being using his powers to make the world and humans. No one made us, years and millenias of complex evolution, and materials bonding and un-bonding with each other, developed the humans into the people they are now. It is explained very clearly how planets and such are made. It's a bit hard to argue those facts.

    The one thing I don't understand is how the universe was made. Yeah it was created in a giant explosion. But how did that explosion happen? What was there before the universe? So confusing to me, but yet I love science. It's so hard to wrap your mind around.
     
  30. Reksveks

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    Exactly my thoughts, but lets add that maybe the universe is continual, just keeps on expanding and then shrinking
     
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