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Cursed Seal, Sharingan and Kyuubi 101

Discussion in 'Konoha Library Archives' started by Last of the Uchihas, Dec 2, 2005.

  1. Last of the Uchihas

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    This is a thread to stop people from saying that Kyuubi acts like a bloodine, and that the cursed seal in the only cheap thing.

    1. Cursed Seal in inplanted in you
    1.Kyuuubi is inplanted in you.
    1. The sharingan is not implanted on you, you must have the Uchiha blood to awaken it.


    2. Kyuubi give you chakra.
    2. The Cursed Seal "give" you chakra (through extracting it by force in huge amounts from the user's own chakra)
    2. Sharingan doesn't give you chakra.


    3. The Cursed Seal give you speed.
    3. Kyuubi give you speed
    3. Sharingan doesn't give you speed.


    4. The Cursed Seal give you physical strength.
    4. Kyuubi give you physical strength.
    4. The Sharingan doesn't give you physical strength


    5. The Cursed Seal contaminates your chakra.
    5. Kyuubi contaminates your chakra.
    5. The Sharingan doesn't contaminate your chakra.


    6. The Cursed Seal transform you into a "hideous beast."
    6. Kyuubi transform you into a "hideous beast."
    6. The Sharingan doesn't transform you into a "hideous beast."


    7. The Cursed Seal give you power without training.
    7. The Kyuubi give you power without traiing.
    7. The Sharingan can't give you power without training.


    8. The Cursed seal can be extracted by seals.
    8. Kyuubi can be extracted from you by seals.
    8. You can't extract the sharingan by seals, as its not an implant.


    9. The Cursed Seal can be sealed. (like Kakashi did)
    9. Kyuubi's power can be sealed. (like Oro did)
    9. You can't seal the sharingan.


    10. You can't pass on the cursed seal to your son, unless you inplanted in him.
    10. You can't pass the bijuu to you son, unless its through inplant. (just like the Gaara case as he is the third container which Shukaku was sealed into.)
    10. You can pass the sharingan to your child the natural way, through bloodline.

    What did we learned?

    That Cursed Seal is as cheap as Kyuubi, as theyt doesn't act like a bloodlines, but as inplants.
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2005
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  2. slumpy

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    Just my vision on the "evil" powers

    sakuke born with the uchiha bloodline at birth. Is alweady equal to genius. (dont namew obito, he was a dropout). Didt he have a lot of potential because of his bloodline.

    Of course curse seal is giving him the extra power boosed. with his bloodline. they guy is a freak so. But he stil needs work, firt to control his bloodline(learing how to use perfectly sharingan), and how to use his curseseal the ful power of it. i think sakuke did't have the full power of the curse sealin the end of part one

    Naruto get the kyuubi at birth, he grow up with that extreme chacra, but like ore said: after 12 years the chacra of the nine tails and naruto begin to mix. This is when he have high intens emotions. Jiriary learned naruto how to call up the kyuubi. Naruto needs to learn pretty hard to control the kyuubi powers. but part 2 he learned it pretty wel.

    this is how i look at it: sakuke's powers= not cheap
    Naruto's powers = not cheap

    They live in a world where power means everything. It doesn't metter where it comes from. both have evil source of power what they can use

    naruto cann choose not to use the kyuubi, its hard but he can. (propaply he wil only have great stamina) for example: put the 5th seal on it.
    sakuke can choose not to use the curse seal ore sharingan etc.

    But picture youre life ruled by an other, what would be more importent then youre own strenght. This counts imo for sakuke. and olso naruto.

    Sakuke's live is ruled by that incident, and so by itachi. he needs to get his revenge, that's wy itachi rules him
    naruto a weapon of konaha. ruled by konoha.

    I think for them it doesnt mather where the strenght comes from, its what you do with it.

    but this is just my opion
     
  3. The_Leader

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    Sharingan has to be awakened, to put it in another way.

    It can't be used until then.

    Sasuke was the number one genin for his class, without any sharingan.
     
  4. TheoDerek

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    I always thought the Curse Seal was less cheap than the Kyuubi. But I think its still cheap. All power ups are the same (gates, kyuubi, cs). They make it so you don't have to rely on your l33t skills as much, and I don't like that.
     
  5. Gunners

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    CS is cheaper, to use kyuubi chakra effectively you have to train, sasuke didnt have to train and i will stick to that, CS downside to easiness is you loose your will but like sasuke cares all he cares about is killing itachi.

    I see the base naruto like a bloodline the healing factor after that ( charka and tails) it becomes more like sasuke using cs1 tails is like cs2.

    Thats how i see it.
     
  6. BlueBerry

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    This reminds me of when me and my little brother used to play Super Smash Bros. and every time that I played as Samus he would say something like "Owww, thats so lame U can't play as samus cause it's cheap"...
    It doesn't really matter how you do it as long as it works, It's all powerups whatever you call it so get over it :amuse
     
  7. ChildGamez

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    Some people think Cursed seal is cheaper than kyuubi? That's kinda... :oh
    Well yes they act kinda same. Kyuubi is IMO way superior though giving you healing and using outer source for chakra.
    People putting Kyuubi in same line with bloodlines must refer to the fact that we've only seen children with youma inside them (Naruto and Gaara). Thus we could assume that Youma can only be bound to a newbirth (I know there is no way to prove it).
    Maybe people also see that CS is cheaper because Sasuke chose to take it, but Naruto didn't have a choise in with Kyuubi. I think this is irrelevant though.
    Another good thread from you. Hope this'll help some people to understand facts. Sadly this didn't give me anything new :sad (still waiting for something new and refreshing in this kind of a well written simple format)
    Keep it up :thumbs
     
  8. Last of the Uchihas

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    Apparently, you missed the part where controlling the cursed seal was complicated, where Sasuke genius was the solution to having a better grasp of it, and even still, the sound four said that he still couldn't control the cursed seal well.

    If a genius figure out how to use it well in the first couple of times he is using it, in less time than a drop out can. Would it mean that he didn't train at all to get better?

    Sorry, but that's the difference between a genius and a loser.

    There are more to that, like corroding your body.


    That's because it is an implant, he gets power out of nowhere. No training at all, he just gets it because Kyuubi wants him to have it, that's all.



    The cursed seal was forcefully implanted by Oro.

    You migth want to read the forest of death:wink
     
  9. Sunuvmann

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    Gahhhh No more 101s!!!!! ITS GETTING CORNY!

    Well technically Kakashi's was.....

    But there is no guarantee the Kyuubi or atleast aspects of it won't become in a way a bloodline. In the Konohaverse, if the demon merges with your spirit then part of your spirit is passed on to the child. Or having the Kyuubi and Curse seal may alter your DNA like a virus and permanently leave you with the ability and it be hereditary. We have seen niether sons of Jinchuraki nor Cursed people to prove otherwise...
     
  10. TheoDerek

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    Ok, I'm really not seeing how Curse Seal is more cheap than Kyuubi. Without even transforming it gives the user increased stamina and abnormally fast healing. And when the users life is threatened it comes out in a blaze of beastlyness and heals him completely, gives him insane speed, and strength.

    Curse Seal, if not sealed or controled properly can activate itself and it draws the users chakra out of them in mass quantities. And if you hold the release state of the seal too long it will corode you body. And after only using the first state of it the curse seal can cause damage to the user.
     
  11. Uchiha_Yamato

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    the kyuubi is still the cheapest of them all, if Sasuke and Naruto only had their bloodlines Sasuke would beat him down every time
     
  12. Sho

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    Either all the CS, Kyuubi, Pills, etc., are cheap, or none of them are cheap. None is more cheaper than the other as they are all powerups. Saying one is more "cheaper" than the other is ridiculous.

    Naruto used Kyuubi's powers against Haku, and he didn't train for that. Even if Naruto didn't "train" using the Kyuubi's powers, he would still be able to use it, just like Sasuke would be able to use CS if he didn't train it. The only thing training the power gives you is a better control over it and easier use of summoning that power for a longer time. Just look at how long the Sound 4 were able to use CS forms compared to Sasuke as an example.
     
  13. Last of the Uchihas

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    but i like them.:D

    There is a big differnece, it was through surgery, not sealing methods.

    Not to mention that it wouldn't work on anybody, as Itachi was impressed that Kakashi's body was capable of using the sharingan good.

    and know that Kakashi has MS, is highly likely that his mother might had been an Uchiha.


    Nope, as Shukaku is an example to this.

    Shukaku had three different hosts, and each time they had to extract it and sealed it on a new person.
     
  14. Key

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    Still, Whats the point to this thread anyways? It's just another person opinion.
     
  15. Gunners

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    At the end of the day kyuubi is naruto bitch, he learnt to controll the chakra of kyuubi make his will the kyuubi will so to speak, he doesnt even ask it is like the two are linked in mind.

    Sasuke has the curse seal, i dont think it is cheap but it easier to use than kyuubi, using kyuubi chakra isnt easy to mold seeming as he has 2 chakra flows to control, a lot of people seem to forget that, with curse seal it amplifies the amount of chakra.

    Sharingan is cheap in the sense that someone could have all their hard work copied in a second.

    But guess what, they live in a ninja world where people try and kill each other, mafia fight you're not gonna drop your gun because the enemy has a knife you would should him.

    Naruto had to put up with the village hatred because of kyuubi having his chakra to his high charka is what i call pay back.

    Naruto base no kyuubi chakra is around the level of sasuke sharingan.

    naruto kyuubi chakra is near level with cs (no marking) sharingan sasuke.

    naruto with 1 tail near cs2 sharingan sasuke.

    Thats my opinion you might see otherwise but imo it written to portray that each stage is equal to the relative stage of rival.
     
  16. ChildGamez

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    Aww shit! My bad. :sad (I was kinda refering to CS2)

    Anyway this "learn to use.." thing brings in mind that we do not know which is harder to use etc.
    Kyuubi has a mind of his own. The down side of Kyuubi is IMO that you have to deal with a yuoma (duu-uh?) and IMO we see in Part 2 that it's taking over Naruto's own will. CS does not have a mind of it's own. I think the hallusination caused by seal was only part of it's submissive power to bring it's bearer closer to Oro, it was something constructed from Sasuke's own nightmares (etc.) not the curse itself speaking to Sasuke. You may question this but it's the way I see it.
    The controlling issue with Kyuubi is to have it "activated" first you get healing, then more chakra + power + speed, then a selfmoving chakra.
    Activing CS doesn't seem to take much of a effort as we see it trying to self-activate before Kakashi placed a seal on it. Seal helps Sasuke to control seal, BUT sound 5 had no seals but were able to control their CSs this proves that CS needs training to be controlled. Sasuke was special case because of the seal. Though activating CS is easier than Kyuubi the effects can't really be compared. As CS / CS2 gives you speed / power / chakra it does not heal fatal wounds nor does it work to protect you on it's own.
    In these points I draw the conclusion:
    Sasuke's skill with CS2 > Kyuubified Naruto ... BUT:
    Sasuke's power (overall everyhing concluded) < Kyuubified Naruto.
    This is because that self working chakra kinda owns... imagine Gaara without his shield of sand...
    I don't think the Chidori vs. Rasengan take2 can be used as a sufficiet evidence. (I maybe should re-read those chapters... light me Copinator)

    That was long :oh ...

    EDIT: I also think that Kyuubi chakra injuring your body is lesser effect in battle than the fact that you are just drained out with CS forcing are your chakra out. Kyuubi still has that chakra moving and a possibility to use high level jutsus as you still have huge amouth of chakra..
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2005
  17. Sunuvmann

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    Eh...not likely, because with the bloodline limits their genetic and unless there is a lot of i*c*st going on it is likely a dominant gene. Also on that manner if it werent Sasuke would have no hope in reviving the clan (cept Edo Tensai..)

    There are a number of theorys on this though like him copying the MS with his Sharingan but thats highly doubtful because it is cheap as hell.


    Well how can we be sure it wasnt impressed on them. If it was anything like Gaara, you remove the Shukaku you die. Wouldnt have much time to test it then.

    Also lets take having Bijuus as being simular to an implant. The others were adults and their bodies probably rejected it or couldnt adequately control it and thus were corrupted.

    Also like implants at a young age, or with birth, the difference between the two are far more likely to blur and could quite possibly effect your DNA. I doubt if the Kyuubi was ever removed from Naruto he would loose the 'whiskers'
     
  18. Chi

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    Lol.. Your first post sounds like Sharingan don't have any advantages ( to Copinator) :p

    Ok.. I don't consider CS or Kyuubi to be "cheap", or "unfair". It's like saying that using your legs, or arms is not fair because they give you an advantage.. Especially in the ninja world..

    Of course Sharingan is the other thing.. You can inherit great mind or body structure from your parents with genes. WHOLE YOU is basicaly part's of your parents combined together.. So if you really want to see "clean" fight, that means it must be battle of souls, or somthn, which is not possible.. So Sharingan can't be consider as a powerup.. Or you'll have to consider Kakashi's genius, or Sakura's chakra control, or even Naruto stubborness as powerups...
    So Sharingan is out of the league of powerups and cheap moves (whatever).

    Now.. Kyuubi and CS (gates as well) must be, IMO, considered as "Ninja Tools". And therefore there aren't any cheap things.. You might as well argue what is cheaper shuriken, or kunai. And by that logic ninjas like TenTen (EXTREEEME CHEATER), or Temari, are also cheaters. Ghmm.. Every ninja is a cheater then..
    Some tools of course are more powerfull than others, but it doesn't make them cheap..

    It's ninja world after all.. Not some "Gentelmens club". You fight for your life, and in the battle all methods are good...


    Best regards..
     
  19. Last of the Uchihas

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    but then again, that is no different than naruto accepting how to have more access to Kyuubi chakra when Jiraiya asked him to train his Kyuubi chakra.


    lol, teah, pretty much agree with this.


    I agree which prove that its no different than Naruto using Kyuubi.

    Although both give you power out fo nowhere.

    By kyuubified Naruto, you mean what level?

    Cuz, base Sasuke > Kyuubified Naruto.:wink
     
  20. shibigoku

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    CS is cheap becuz you don't train to get it. Sasuke was weak he got CS and Banm! he's stronger. Naruto had to train to tap into his inner powers and he just began to do it. He can't even control his powers yet.
     
  21. RAGING BONER

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    In my awesome opinion i think the GATES are the cheapest thing EVER...TOTAL DBZ ripoff, not even pretending to hide it.

    at least kyuubi is a demon and therefore understandable that his power would flow into its container.
    and the curse seal is a jutsu that can be activated, kind of like a summoning tatoo (like Orochimaru's). it extracts the users power and transforms him into a better killer.

    the gates just require a lot of screaming and powering up before you can fly around everywhere kicking peoples assess.

    cursed seal and Kyuubi ARE indeed cheap (kyuubi may be slightly cheaper, atleast CS is still your own power) ways to win, especially if its all you rely on...but they don't even come CLOSE to the bullshit that is the Gates.
    really, is Gai such a weakling that he can't even compare to a weaker FAKE version of Kisame? I guess he is...
     
  22. Gunners

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    ^^^^lmao, good old days, if naruto was out the same time as dbz,dbz would be put to shame, they screamed for about 15 minutes after comercial yes ive reaches ssj3, fights for a while, well im of now. ( gokou vs buu)
     
  23. ChildGamez

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    Ummm.. the "My chakra goes wild and it buuurns!"[/golum-voice] state :oh .
    Thinking that Naruto would be able to endure it's effects longer...
    In the battle between Naruto and Sasuke I have to agree.
    I see it so that Kishi actually balanced this making Naruto do Kyuubi mode regulary in part 2.

    :rofl .. I couldn't say it better.
     
  24. Last of the Uchihas

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    lol, you migth want to reread the first post.

    This is why Kyuubi act like a cursed seal, not the sharingan doesn't give you advantages.

    :amuse

    Yes, i do know the sharingan give you advantage, but this is not what this thread is about:wink


    There is a clearly difference between using something you were borth with :A hand and a leg than the cursed seal and Kyuubi. XD


    i agree


    i agree



    Tell that to the Hyuugas.:wink

    You cannot Copy MS as what Itachi used is a different MS jutsu.


    And?

    The Sand have no proble sacrificing people to maintain the village power. All Villages were set to capture a youma, and they sure as hell wouldn't want to lose Shukaku.

    Answer?

    The kprevious owners died due to the extraction.

    reason why ChIyo knows when you extract a Youma, the containers dies. Take into consideration the context of that, they were asking what would ahppen if Shukaku is removed from Gaara.

    Which further prove the other two container suffered the same fate.

    Death due to Bijuu extraction.

    read above.



    He would, as that's is part of Kyuubi trait, not Naruto's.
     
  25. TDM

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    Hmm, yeah, I agree.
     
  26. Sunuvmann

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    References Sakura v. Ino :shannaro
     
  27. Last of the Uchihas

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    lmao, I rather they have the power up.:amuse
     
  28. FitzChivalry

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    Well, I've already said what I had to on this.
     
  29. tmmyc

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    Mistakes/Misconceptions:

    7. The Sharingan can't give you power without training.
    Yes it can. Sasuke gained 3-tomoe Sharingan when his Curse Seal Level 1 did not provide him enough power to take on Kyuubi Naruto. He did not purposely train for it, but received it free after acknowleding Naruto. Itachi gained Mangekyou Sharingan by killing his best friend. No training involved.
    Disclaimer: Training with Sharingan will also give you power.

    8. You can't extract the sharingan by seals, as its not an implant.
    You can extract the Sharingan by medical ninjutsu. In other words, the focus is on the feasibility of implantation, not the method of it.

    Your mistakes do not change the conclusion. Kyuubi is still quite cheap.
     
  30. Kyuubi Naruto

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    Ive already had my say on this but to make things fair I want to say that in part 2, Kyuubi mode is Naruto. It is his base. I made a thread titled "Kyuubi acts like a bloodlimit" some time back and it helped some things. Why do you think Naruto can go Kyuubi whenever he wants? Its like this

    Base Naruto=Naruto (can turn Kyuubi on and off like a bloodlimit)
    Base Sasuke= Sasuke (can turn Sharingan on and off like a bloodlimit)

    Base Naruto=Base Sasuke
    or if you dont understand
    Naruto using unleashed power of Kyuubi=3rd tomoe Sharingan

    That is why Naruto has been training in Kyuubi and he can use it whenever. Its his own special bloodlimit of the sort. Even in my former thread it answered alot of questions. You see, look at the moments that Naruto used Kyuubi.

    1. Awakened in the Haku fight for a limited amount of time
    - Same as the Sharingan
    2. Naruto learned to use Kyuubi's chakra in the Chuunin exams
    - Sasuke learned to get better with the Sharingan like Naruto got better with Kyuubi
    3. Kyuubi gave Naruto an upgrade when he needed it
    - Same as Sasuke with the 3rd tomoe
    4. Naruto can use Kyuubi extremely well like a bloodlimiti
    - Same as Sasuke can use the Sharingan when he wants
    5. Naruto's gets better with Kyuubi
    - Same with Sasuke and the Sharingan
    6. Naruto didnt ask for Kyuubi
    - Same with Sasuke and the Sharingan but Sasuke DID ask for CS2
    7. Kyuubi is part of Naruto and Naruto is actually gaining his chakra
    - Sharingan is part of Sasuke


    Its like a bloodlimit. The only thing people can use to say its not is the "its not natural" point. Every different "bloodlimit" has a different usage. No matter what, its all different. Look at Shino and his bugs. Kyuubi lives in Naruto, Shino's bugs live in Shino. Naruto uses Kyuubi when he wants now. Shino is the same for his bugs. What is different? Oh yeah, incase you forgot. Shino's clan makes the user form an agreement with the bugs as soon as they are born and then they live inside them. Now who does that sound like? Oh wait, Naruto and Kyuubi. Sounds familiar huh? I hope no one goes around saying that Shino is "cheap" now. The main problem with these things is that people dont know that every bloodline is different. Everyone is different. Even if Kyuubi isnt an official bloodline it acts like one.
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2005
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