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DCAU Darkseid vs. DCAU Mongul

Discussion in 'Outskirts Battledome' started by ATastyMuffin, Nov 6, 2018.

  1. ATastyMuffin Kanye's Biggest Fan

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    No Omega Beams allowed.
     
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  2. MusubiKazesaru Moderator Moderator

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  3. Mabel Gleeful Mage

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    Darkseid fared better against angry (thought still not all out) Superman than Mongul did. He should win more often than not.
     
  4. Sir Jogga Duke of Inanity

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    Both got their asses handed to them by Superman.

    Darkseid, however, has the Agony Matrix to give him an insta-win.
     
  5. ATastyMuffin Kanye's Biggest Fan

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    Not true. Superman was way more bloodlusted against Mongul in their second fight, and despite taking considerably more hits to the face than Darkseid the latter still put up a fight.

    Superman didn't even need heat vision to beat Darkseid's ass in Destroyer.

    The way I see it, Mongul is a better hand-to-hand brawler than Darkseid whereas the latter is above by virtue of Omega Beams and lolAgonyMatrix (which should be banned in this thread for obvious reasons). And even taking Omega Beams into consideration - let's not forget Clark was trying to roast Mongul alive with heat vision and still got punched back. It's not an insta-win.

    Darkseid and Mongul are very, very close in power. Without the Agony Matrix, it's extremely debatable.
     
  6. Sir Jogga Duke of Inanity

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    Nah. Superman went for the kill in both cases. Batman has to use a teleported to restrain him because Clark was going to kill himself by staying in the ship to murder Darkseid

    Blatant lie. Superman blasted heat vision through Darkseid’s foot in Destroyer. Specifically because Darkseid was stomping on his face
     
  7. ATastyMuffin Kanye's Biggest Fan

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    You understand I'm talking about the JLU episode Destroyer, where Supes goes all 'World of Cardboard' right?

    He absolutely stomped Darkseid in that episode, to a degree not seen in 'For The Man Who Has Everything' against Mongul.
     
  8. Sir Jogga Duke of Inanity

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    @3:30

    >Superman using heat vision on Darkseid.

    Got the episode wrong, but my point still stands. Superman has equal effort with Darkseid as he did with Mongul.

    If anything, he got his ass kicked up until he shoved his hands on his eyes to make Darkseid’s face blow up, back in Superman:TAS.
     
  9. MusubiKazesaru Moderator Moderator

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    Then Darkseid gets right up and Agony Matrixes him with little issue.
     
  10. ATastyMuffin Kanye's Biggest Fan

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    I'm aware of what happens in Twilight, thanks. That's why I referred to Superman's not needing of heat vision in Destroyer.

    Oh, okay, so you were the one caught in a blatant lie. Good to know.

    And Mongul tanked more hits. In Twilight, Darkseid takes nine to the face, the last three of which are broken up from the previous six by him throwing Clark around. In Destroyer, Darkseid takes even less from a going-all-out Clark and is briefly knocked out.

    Mongul took twelve to the noggin consecutively from a rage-mode Supes and got right back up without a hitch.

    Yet that evidently wasn't Clark at his strongest. Using Darkseid at his most powerful, we saw Clark straight-up demolish him.

    Your point being?
     
  11. Sir Jogga Duke of Inanity

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    Got all the occurrences down pat except the name of the episode, Blatant lie my ass
    Darkseid took 13 hits in Destroyer, actually.

    Twice in the background and eleven up until he got back up.

    And he wasn’t knocked out. He got back up not worse for ware and Agony Matrix’d Superman

    That also counts for Mongul, if you haven’t noticed.
    Superman tanked even more hits from Mongul in their first fight and was ready to beat his ass when he found out that the planet he was trying to save was safe now. Dude wasn’t phased a bit.

    Meanwhile back in their first fight, Darkseid straight up beat Superman in a one-on-one match.
     
  12. The World KATTA

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  13. ATastyMuffin Kanye's Biggest Fan

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    So you lied, got it.

    Not to the face. Watch the episode again. He takes the first when Supes taps his shoulder, an uppercut in the background, a flying punch closer to the wall, then another punch into the wall (which we don't actually see connect with his face, so it could have been directed at his chest for all we know). That makes four, actually three if we discount the last as we don't know where it landed.

    Then Supes punches Darkseid in the chest multiple times to break him through the wall. Another hook to the face, until the infamous 'World of Cardboard' barrage that counts as three.

    That makes seven or eight. So yes, less than that of Twilight. You know what's even funnier? Five/four of those punches Darkseid took in Destroyer weren't full strength. Only the last three were.

    Mongul took all his twelve hits to the noggin before shrugging it off (unlike Darkseid) and continuing.

    I said briefly, bucko. Read.

    It does not. Superman is blatantly bloodlusted against Mongul in their second fight. Pounding away at him even the latter is defenceless and not retaliating. He is going all-out.

    We actually know for a fact that Darkseid had never witnessed Superman going full-power prior to Destroyer.

    So no, in Twilight, in STAS - Superman had been holding back in every encounter with Darkseid prior to their last scuffle.

    Cool? I mean, you're here deliberately cherry-picking feats to make your case . Darkseid at his factual strongest was clowned by Clark in seven swings, Mongul took twelve and recovered faster.
     
  14. MusubiKazesaru Moderator Moderator

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  15. Crimson Dragoon Red Eyes

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    Superman holding back on fucking Darkseid except for the last battle in JLU is retarded as hell

    the guy who mind controlled him and got Superman really pissed off

    Supes outright said he'd reduce DS to a bloody smear in JL :skully
     
  16. Crimson Dragoon Red Eyes

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    shit, Clark legit gets pissed at Bruce at trying to get him back and wanted to make sure Darkseid was finished
     
  17. Imakarum Mirabilis Perfect Immortal Machine

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    Superman was trying to make sure Darkseid died right then and there

    Why in the fuck would Clark ever hold back on the most evil man in the universe and get violent at Batman for trying to stop him?

    Darkseid is one of the few people Clark has a kill on sight policy for a fucking reason :facepalm
     
  18. Crimson Dragoon Red Eyes

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    when Darkseid shows up in JL's watchtower, the first thing Clark does is punch him in the face :mjlol
     
  19. Imakarum Mirabilis Perfect Immortal Machine

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    But world of cardboard CD, Clark always holds back against Darkseid :smartgoku
     
  20. ATastyMuffin Kanye's Biggest Fan

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    No? The point was that Superman was Darkseid's clear superior. I don't consider the Agony Matrix part of his powerset nor is that reflected in the tier list someone posted here.

    I mean, I'd agree with you except:

    It's not up for debate whether or not Superman was holding back all those previous encounters. He straight-up says it. Darkseid had never seen how strong the former really was until Destroyer.
     
  21. Imakarum Mirabilis Perfect Immortal Machine

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    >bolding the “show just how powerful I really am” bit
    >when just prior, he speaks of a rare opportunity to showcase that in the environment they’re in

    lol
     
  22. ATastyMuffin Kanye's Biggest Fan

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    Exactly. Superman has gone all-out before, just not against Darkseid. Against someone else, maybe Doomsday, maybe Mongul, whichever.

    Just definitively, factually, not against Darkseid until that point.
     
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  23. Imakarum Mirabilis Perfect Immortal Machine

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    No he’s definitely gone all out against Darkseid. In all the fights they’ve been in, Clark was outright bloodlusted and wanted to kill him

    You don’t get much more not holding back than that. The statement he made doesn’t preclude that

    You also realize that in saying Clark was holding back against Darkseid despite clearly going for the kill multiple times that you torpedo your own argument that Clark went all out against Mongul as well?
     
  24. ATastyMuffin Kanye's Biggest Fan

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    Clark wasn't bloodlusted in STAS on Apokolips. He drops him to the floor and lets the civilians of Apokolips deal with him. He wasn't bloodlusted when Darkseid first shot him down with Omega Beams in their first meeting, either.

    Heck, I'll say he wasn't even bloodlusted in Destroyer. He gives Darkseid time to recover and asks him if he wants to continue.

    Apparently you do. Hence why Clark said what he said.

    Yes, it does. It explicitly contradicts the notion you're making. Suck it up, buttercup.

    I say Clark was holding back against Darkseid before because Clark said he held back against Darkseid. This isn't rocket science, lmao. Read it again and repeat it back to me. I'll quote for you once more:

    If we're using the incredibly nebulous form of criteria you're using to judge whether or not Clark was going full-tilt against somebody, I'll point out that he was way, way angrier against Mongul than he ever was against Darkseid. Did Clark ever use his heat vision to try and roast Darkseid alive? He only does so in Twilight to get the latter's foot off him. He never uses it in Destroyer.

    By comparison, in For The Man Who Has Everything he continues burning Mongul despite the latter already being on the floor writhing in agony. He repeatedly pounds a clearly dazed and near-dead Mongul in the face with no retaliation thrown back. He was in literal rage-mode throughout that fight, screaming while throwing punches, something I can't say to nearly the same degree even in Twilight.
     
  25. Imakarum Mirabilis Perfect Immortal Machine

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    After watching Dan Turpin get killed for no reason, being brainwashed to serve Darkseid and seeing all the people that Darkseid enslaved? Bullshit he wasn’t.
    Even though he was explicitly trying to kill Darkseid. That’s the very definition of being bloodlusted. Just because he wanted him to recover so he could beat on Darkseid some more because he was pissed doesn’t make him not bloodlusted.
    After everything Darkseid put Clark through, it’s stupid to believe otherwise.
    Okay one that’s gross

    And two, no it doesn’t. Clark does not say “this is a rare opportunity for me to go all out on you specifically.” He alluded to having gone all out before but doesn’t say when or whom. It’s open to include anyone and by context, Clark has gone all out against Darkseid. The show gives us Clark trying to take Darkseid’s life repeatedly. You can’t pretend as if those instances didn’t happen because they did.
    You can’t into context especially when Clark doesn’t preclude Darkseid from having gone all out before. You can’t read and you don’t understand what being bloodlusted means. Stop talking about comics and comics related things.
    You mean the same Clark who has pummeled Darkseid to near death in fits of rage and once threw him to the slaves to kill? Darkseid has done a lot more to Clark than Mongul has. Are we pretending that Dan Turpin’s death, the enslavement of Apokolips’ people and him being brainwashed mean nothing? Because Clark was arguably just as angry at Darkseid for those actions than he was at Mongul for being shown a vision that wasn’t real. Stop with this nonsense already.
    And yet Clark being enraged over all the things I listed doesn’t count because he’s not torturing Darkseid and is just going for the kill? What a solid argument you got there, Mr. Iron Man shouldn’t have gotten stronger over the course of the MCU.
     
  26. NostalgiaFan Well-Known Member

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    There is nothing indicating that Supes was holding back on that ship with Darksied when everything from his attitude to his very words shows us he was meaning to kill him right there either with his own hands or just keeping him there long enough to die in the explosion since in that fight and previous encounters Darksied always forced Supes to go all out otherwise he would just get his ass kicked.
     
  27. Imakarum Mirabilis Perfect Immortal Machine

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    Superman after seeing Dan Turpin get killed straight up wrecked a tank out of rage and wouldn't stop

    We can only imagine the kind of shit he would have done to Darkseid had he not Boom Tubed away
     
  28. Sir Jogga Duke of Inanity

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    :skully

    Doesn’t matter.
    Irrelevant, he was never knocked out at all anyhow. You’re wrong
    :gokuskully

    Superman said he was going to fucking kill Darkseid.

    This isn’t up for debate.
     
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  29. Sir Jogga Duke of Inanity

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    The fact that Darkseid killed Dan Turpin and brainwashed Superman into attacking the planet made Superman not give a shit about Darkseid’s cry for “help”. Straight up wanted that nigga dead.

    Batman, of all people, told Superman to “get over it”.

    Despite the fact that no one else in the League ever faced Darkseid before.

    And they eventually, inevitably, get doublecrossed. And nobody apologizes to Superman for warning them that this was exactly what was going to happen.
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2018
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  30. NostalgiaFan Well-Known Member

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    That was honestly pretty bullshit and the whole league should have just straight up admitted that Superman was right, especially Bats.
     
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