1. Welcome to the forums! Take a second to look at our Beginner's Guide. It contains the information necessary for you to have an easier experience here.

    Thanks and have fun. -NF staff
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Forum Skin Contest:

    Let us know if you’re participating or would like to participate in a forum wide skin contest. If so, please give us your opinions here.

    Dismiss Notice

Dictatorship... the best way?

Discussion in 'Perspectives' started by Raistlin-sama, Oct 1, 2005.

  1. Raistlin-sama Have you been naughty or nice?

    Messages:
    892
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Joined:
    May 31, 2005
    Now don't get me wrong democracy is a good thing, and this post is mainly hypothetical.

    But lets try looking it it logically. Is the majority of people smart? Does the majority of people know how to best run a country?
    Honestly I doubt it.

    Now wouldn't it be much smarter if you had some intelligent persons running the country. Someone who was educated just to be able to run a country properly? And yes I know people like that is hard to come by, but lets assume that these people do exist (they do, but as I said properly hard to find them).

    This would be dictatorship. No elections, just changing people out when they are no longer capable.

    The majority will have no say in how the country is controlled, and therefore politics will not be directed by a majority of people, who's intelligence is questionable.

    Of course they will still be all the people rights, and so on. Just no elections, and nothing being directed by people who have no understanding of how things work.

    Now my question is, would a society like this be better?

    Personally I am not quiet sure...
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2005
    Tags:
  2. Sabaku no Ira Mortius of Phyrexia

    Messages:
    357
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2004
    You're going back to the question of democracy vs monarchy. Their characteristics, strengths and weaknesses are practically the opposite to each other.

    1) A democratic system has a problem with efficiency: every decision has to get a majority vote of a body, which means spending a couple of days debating about an issue before a decision can be made. And then there are problems of people who tries to get block something based on personal gain, and they can do that in a demoncratic country. On the other hand, a king/queen can just wave a hand and it becomes law instantly, and no one can question that.

    2) It is precisely that a king/queen can just "wave a hand and it becomes law" that creates the following weakness of a monarchy/dictatorship: instability. Sure, you get great kings/queens who cares for the country, and the country can prosper to heights hard to achieve by democratic countries, but what happens when you get crap leaders? In a monarchy/dictatorship system, there is nothing to stop idiotic kings/queens/leaders from doing stupid things, or things that only gives him/her gain. A democratic system doesn't have much of that problem: other people can stop someone who is trying to extort the people.

    Have your pick.
     
  3. Toby <b>Detective Dollars</b>

    Messages:
    17,920
    Likes Received:
    507
    Trophy Points:
    768
    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2005
    Its interesting, the more anarchy- and communist-wannabes I`ve run into my whole life, the less faith I have in their causes. Also Democracy seems to have, as pointed out earlier, a less efficient system of administration. I believe we should walk the middle path, like the old British Empire. A queen smart, funny and intellectual and The House of Parliament. Good old union-jack, why do they not recognise you? *sniff*
     
  4. HyugaHinata Over 100 Episodes Fansubbed!

    Messages:
    543
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2004
    The US is basically a 'tyranny by majority' system at the moment. If a benevolent dictator could be found and influenced by the needs and wants of the people, then that could be the best system - quick progress without oppression.
     
  5. Nybarius Ennui Bores Me

    Messages:
    4,500
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2005
    When philosophers are kings and kings are philosophers /Plato
     
  6. HyugaHinata Over 100 Episodes Fansubbed!

    Messages:
    543
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2004
    Another good quote:

     
  7. Nybarius Ennui Bores Me

    Messages:
    4,500
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2005
    :( This is making me want to go back and read some of the dialogues; I particularly like Socrates' insistence that it's worse to do injustice than have injustice done to you.
     
  8. Tsukiyomi Crazy Cyborg Monkey

    Messages:
    20,275
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2004
    The problem is absolute power corrupts absolutely, so what are you going to do once that person becomes corrupt? In a democracy we can atleast do something, in a dictatorship you can't do anything.

    The thing is atleat in a democracy the stupid people are partially balanced by smart people, people who actually know the issues and what needs to be done, but in a dictatorship all it takes is one stupid dictator and it all goes to hell because no one can balance a dictator.
     
  9. Nybarius Ennui Bores Me

    Messages:
    4,500
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2005
    Also there is the phenomenon of group intelligence, as long as there are educated individuals in a large crowd they tend to out-perform experts.
     
  10. Jef88 88

    Messages:
    20,958
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Joined:
    May 6, 2005
    dictatorship can be good (and allmost the same as a democrasy) when there is no abuse of the system
    but people will abuse so its not a good idea :amuse
     
  11. explicitkarma 24601

    Messages:
    856
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2005
    You know the system is good if it's a collective struggle. Many people in our democracy have struggled for our safety and civil rights. In dictatorships, the people are in a one sided struggle. In democracies, both the governed and the governing share a collective struggle.

    Out of any struggle comes revolution. This is true for all types of government. In dictatorships, if the struggle is overcome, the people revolt against the government. In democracies, if the collective struggle is overcome, a revolution of ideas occur. That is why I believe a democracy is the better system, because it encourages revolution through voting.

    Voting may be a problem if the voters are unintelligent, mediocre sheep. However, I agree with what Tsukiyomi said about intelligent people partially balancing the stupid people. Back in Colonial America, those that disagreed with British Parliment were initially a big minority and were considered radicals. But later, America won it's independence. If it weren't for that persistent minority, no change would occur.
     
  12. earthshine Banned

    Messages:
    2,737
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2005
    didint u know? people in genaral have no control over our government, pour votes are merly a sugestion to the electoral college, who can just say screw u and vote however they want
     
  13. Raistlin-sama Have you been naughty or nice?

    Messages:
    892
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Joined:
    May 31, 2005
    I don't know how reliable the US system is, but in my country the votes count (when the number of representants for each party is elected).

    Anyways, people bring up the point, that the one who directed in such a society would be corrupted. Or that there will at some point come someone, who is not good.

    That is quiet right, which is why a dictatorship like this just doesn't work in reality.

    But theoretically, wouldn't a dictatorship with a wise and intelligent leader be to prefer over democracy?
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2005
  14. earthshine Banned

    Messages:
    2,737
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2005
    yes, but the problem is, u will get an awsome leader one time, then some idiot plitician the next, its too risky. plus, as dictator, he could change it to where he and his family will rule till the end of freckin time, or just be a new hitler, and get his country destroyed in pointless war
     
  15. Grrblt Banned

    Messages:
    24,964
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2005
    You guys seem to live with the idea that there is a Best way to run a country - that is simply not the case. There's no such thing as "good" or "bad" dictators. All dictators rule supremely and whether they try to rule for their own good or for others doesn't matter; ultimately, it will piss people off because not everyone wants to be run the same.

    Most people don't know how to run a country, true, but they do know how to run themselves. Democracy is the ideaology with the best means to let people do that, unless you want to resort to forms of state that don't utilise any government or laws, i.e. anarchy.
     
  16. Sabaku no Ira Mortius of Phyrexia

    Messages:
    357
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2004
    Unfortunately that did not happen in Athens during the later part of the Peloponnesian War, where the majority voted their victorious admirals into execution because they "didn't rescue their dying soldiers during the battle"... :notrust

    However, you're right about the dictatorship system. No pairs in the world are as opposite as dictatorship and democracy (other than black and white): their strengths and weaknesses are completely reverse of each other.
     
  17. Chamcham Trigger 光翼型近接支援残酷戦闘機“エヴァッカニア・ドゥーム

    Messages:
    54,191
    Likes Received:
    15
    Trophy Points:
    1,657
    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2005
    Didn't that come from the republic? I've read most of his works but tend to mix up his books lines :S.
    Anyway, if it was from that book then do you remember the incredibally messed up system he designed in it? The whole matches depending on class that would only last for a short period of time and then the whole babies not being raised in families, but by like hired nurses/mothers. He even admitted that he wanted to make the people live in a state of deception and believe the whole gold soul silver soul etc etc concept so that everyone would be happy with their permanent place in life.

    That was a pretty messed up system he created. What's worse is that he actually tried many times to put it into action and came close to succeding. Besides that, and his obsession with geometry to near illogical lengths, he was a pretty brilliant man.
     
  18. Grrblt Banned

    Messages:
    24,964
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2005
    You quoted two claims, which one do you want me to extrapolate on?
     
  19. Chamcham Trigger 光翼型近接支援残酷戦闘機“エヴァッカニア・ドゥーム

    Messages:
    54,191
    Likes Received:
    15
    Trophy Points:
    1,657
    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2005
    That's just it. It's because we don't live in a perfect world that we don't have a perfect system of ruling every single type of area at any given time and situation. I guess it's trial and error that we're still going through and will be going through for a long time.

    Though the worst part is that not everyone has the same view of a perfect world. Some may think that it is a world of no famine and no war, and another may think it's a world full of war and suffering (not necessairly exactly what this world is due to periods of piece, but pretty close). It might be due to this varing view of a perfect world that has everyone in this debate and on a larger scale it's this differing view of a perfect world that has everyone at eachother's throat in this world.
     
  20. Cthulhu-versailles The Luckiest Man in Agrabah

    Messages:
    17,372
    Likes Received:
    19
    Trophy Points:
    493
    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2005
    people being able to govern themselves has nothing to do with democracy- your talking about Marx and Engel ideology- which by the way pwn but cannot happen to in part to the disgusting shittyness of human nature-.

    Dictatorship is the best way if you are the dictator otherwise it's sucks enourmous ass

    ...People being able to govern themselves... the closing thing we got is in italy- where there is no fully established gouverment and where there is a new leader coming up and in every 13 seconds...

    Ps: Read billy the kid and that should knock out the ridicoulous idea out of your head that people should be left to govern themselves- people are morons and individualistc-
     
  21. Sabaku no Ira Mortius of Phyrexia

    Messages:
    357
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2004
    No, the closest thing is Athens in the 3rd to 5th century BC, where basically every decision to be made by the city-state is voted.
     
  22. Cthulhu-versailles The Luckiest Man in Agrabah

    Messages:
    17,372
    Likes Received:
    19
    Trophy Points:
    493
    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2005
    - - the idea of marxism isn't rooted only regarding self governing- also about workers not being owned and exploited by goverment or ruling power- nothing has been close- the city state is just experimental democracy.
     
  23. Sabaku no Ira Mortius of Phyrexia

    Messages:
    357
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2004
    Well, if you're talking about "power to the people", nothing beat ancient Athens, where basically everything the state decides is voted by everyone, including appointment of generals, leaders, "Should we go and kick some Spartan ass", etc.
     
  24. Grrblt Banned

    Messages:
    24,964
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2005
    Maybe if you weren't such a jerk, I would've explained it to you. Now I'll just satisfy with saying that you understood my post wrong, I never claimed democracy was the best system.
     
  25. UnderGroundJunkie_UGJ AnimeJunkie of the UnderGround

    Messages:
    117
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2005
    Ok, I know we got an idiot running the USA but doesnt have to bring up the fact of dictatorship. That'd be insane. I know everyone would rebel. And the USA would go into another civil war. I think it should stay how it is instead of risking a drastic change in our government that not all would agree with. Besides there would no freedom at all. You would end up being like Sadaam in Iraq. Except maybe Iraq would come and change our lives instead of the other way around.
     
  26. prettyboi Banned

    Messages:
    11
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2005
    no its not the best way. its majority rules
     
  27. Raistlin-sama Have you been naughty or nice?

    Messages:
    892
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Joined:
    May 31, 2005
    I'm not talking about the US (random question: Why do Americans always assume that everything is about the US), I'm talking about governmental systems in general. If this dictator was an intelligent and just man/woman, who knew how to run a country, wouldn't it be to prefer, over who the majority of people, who's knowledge in the area is limited, thinks will do the best job?

    Just because the leader(s) was not decided by everyone, it doesn't mean that the system have to be devoid of freedom.

    You do however have a point. If people feel that they cannot change anything, and their opinion doesnt matter, then they are more inclined to start a civil war.

    Also it is very hard to apply such a system considering, as many have pointed out, the fact that power corrupts, and in reality you could get a bad leader, no matter how many tests you put him/her through.
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2005
  28. Kasumi 霞 Drawing Chalk Outlines

    Messages:
    508
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2005
    The thing with dictatorship is the question, "Can he/she be trusted?"
    With democracy the question is, "Can people be trusted to know what they want?"

    I really can't say which is better... the majority of people aren't intelligent but it's less riskier than appointing one leader.
     
  29. Chaotic Diplomat Level 2 World Dictator (whaha)

    Messages:
    98
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2005
  30. Avenger2112 Feuer Frei!

    Messages:
    1,887
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2005
    if the dictator was like hitler then yes, all government should be runned by dictators.
     
Loading...