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Discussion on How Religion is Inconsitent and Harmful

Discussion in 'Philosophical Forum' started by Cthulhu-versailles, Sep 2, 2005.

  1. Cthulhu-versailles

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    ABOVE TITLE USED TO LURE YOU INTO THE THREAD SO DON'T BE OFFENDED
    I just want to know why exactly is it that some people believe so completly and total in there religion yet even in doing so do not adhere to what is said in their own religion books.

    I am not going to name specifics but religion has created the largest problems humanity has ever had. Wars, pointless slaughter of others who haven't believe in that religion... beliefs taken to far where horrible acts where commited. Ie Salem with the killing of all these women who were thought to be witches or when abortion clinics where bomb. Not only has religion created alot of violence it has given people reasons to believe there actions are absolutly right. How can people believe so highly and speak so proudly of something that has caused so many problems?

    ...Even if you only consider the supposedly civile present times we live in, religion is still creating dangerous feuds between other. As well as violence, hatred and violation of rights, not to mention wide scale discrimanation and terroism.

    So Please tell me why is religion considered to be such a good thing when it has clearly done more harm then good ?


    I have some questions about the inconsistency I believe exist in religion.

    Weren't religious books continously changed and modifed in the passed, when the most pratical method of communication was verbal and not written.

    Also don't the level of inequalities between the sexes and races shine thorugh in religion books.

    Don't religions books basical promote a type of attitude that gives most of the power to men.

    Doesn't it seem as though religion was modified and changed by people "men" in power to properly equate with the times.


    Aren't the passages in these religions books written by people and not higher beings.

    Also why is it that people who are religions will follow some beliefs in these religions books swearing that your going to hell if you don't. Yet they themselves are ignoring a lot of others things within these books.

    ------------
    One more thing I was chiristian until about 13, and then became an athetist, so I need to ask all the christians since the bible is the only one of "the religions books I have real knowledge of" have you ever read and compared passages in the bible and seen just how inconsitent alot of things are. Not to mention that in general alot is basically interatation more so then clear actions that have been written down.

    Ps Haven;t alot of religion actually originated from other religions.. which in reality then means that some religions are entirely man made and the small link that exist between the profet and God is nullified.

    DON'T FLAME
    -I just want to know why human beings are so devoted to religion.
     
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  2. earthshine

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    frankly, humans are teriffied of being alone. we are scared that our destiny actually is in our own hands, and that there wont be anybody to clean up all the messes we have made. humans always have the desire to rely on somthing else, luck, a brother/sister, parents, fate, all to take responsibility off of themselvs. somthing bad happens, it was gods will, it was bad luck, it was just fated to happen. besides that, people belive in religion becouse they dont know anything else. this is like the very fabric of their world, its what they where rtaised on. it gives them rules to live by, standards of right and wrong, and it gives them the feeling that, even if they mess up, a higher being will be there to make evrything okay again.
     
  3. The Space Cowboy

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    Cross posted in the other thread to make sure you get to read it.

    May I point out that the wholly secular philosophy of communism is probably responsible for more deaths than the Crusades, and the Mohammedan conquest of the Middle East that occurred earlier combined (What a nice gulag you have Joseph).

    With that said...

    Being a member of the "Christian" faith, I will not pretend to be able to answer all your...questions about religion. I'm not sure you're really even asking them--it sounds more like you're asking people to disprove or assent to a very generalized set of assumptions.

    I'll post later when I have more to say on this matter.
     
  4. therealultimatepower

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    Stalin's communism was a ploy for everyone to worship and fear him by eradicating every other possible belief system (God did a good job of sitting on his as$ on that one, huh?). He did not go on his purge with the sole intent of creating a secular society. And besides, if there was no religion, there'd be 1 less thing to be persecuted for by that wacko. Communism is not synonymous with atheism. Atheism is merely the lack of belief in a higher being. Communism is a political view. The ideal society would be a democratic and secular one, like Britain or France.

    Basically, I'm against all types of organization that gains power through exploiting the masses and condoning fanaticism, whether that be from totalitarian dictatorships or the Church.
     
  5. Near

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    There is nothing wrong in believes. Its people that abuse the power by creating hierarchy religion based systems.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2005
  6. Edgecrusher

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    Human nature is the cause of wars. It's not as if we had no religion it'd be a utopia. We would just find something else to fight over. It's not the cause of belief, it's the cause of human weakness.
     
  7. OtacontheOtaku

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    Yes, they in fact were and still are. The New King James, International, and New Life versions of the bible are altered and updated by the Jesuit society in conjunction with the approval of the Catholic Church relatively frequently.

    Quite so indeed. The Torah and Quaran both shine God's favour upon their respective races. Christianity and Catholicism both are arrogant relgions who's sects are constantly warring over who is right while deeming all who don't accept Yeshwah (Jesus; properly translated Joshua) as their savior hethans who are going straight to (the completely fictional) hell.

    Yes, almost all mainstream religious texts are extremely mysogynistic. In Levitacus 27 "God" sets the value of women at 50 to 66 percent of that of men. In 1 Timothy 2:11 it speaks how they are not to hold higher positions than men. The Bible and Torah also find no fault when Abraham and Isaac knowingly gave away their wive for sexual use. These of course are only several examples. So yes, the Bible is a vast expansion of mysogeny left and right.

    This is exactly what happened. Most of the stories of the Old Testament come from Ancient Sumeria. They had been passed down by the people and eventually adapted into what became the first religious texts.


    Right again. The passages were, even according to myth, not written down by those telling the story. A scribe had to record the accounts as per relayed through the story-teller. Thus we end up with a massive game of telephone where the message ends up being horribly distorted by the time it's ready for mass-induction.

    Because organized religion is all about two things, money and ego. If people truly were following their religions then they wouldn't condemn as they do, they would try and spread a message of love and peace. Do they though? Of course not. Though, not to say this is non-existant but, as a whole the world of organized religion is extremely fucked up.
     
  8. Scorpio3.14

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    The amount of people who have been helped by a church, religious organization, religous family, etc... over the years far far far out number the people who are hurt by perversions of religion.

    For every person hurt by an abortion clinic bomber, thousands more women are being helped with the birth of their children by religious organizations. For every person who uses religon to justify acts of hatred, there are thousands more who use religion to justify acts of love, compasion, and hope.

    Religious organizations are out there every single day, feeding the poor, helping the hurt, sending money to people in need, giveing people a place to sleep, helping them turn their life around from addictions, giving moral support to people going through hard times. Every single day religous groups do these things and no one really notices. Then every so often you hear of some religious nut bombing an abortion clinic or beating up some homosexuals and they all go "Wow, look at how hateful and harmful those religous people are"

    In fact, most studies done on the issue of religion on crime and delinquency show that they have an inverse relationship. The more religious a person is, the less likely they are to commit crimes. (if you dont feel like reading, skip to the conclusion on the bottom of page 14)

    Whether you like it or not, religion is a part of life for most people in the world and most people in the world are good people. Religion can be harmful just like everything else, but most of the time its helpful. You are judgeing the many on the actions of a few.
     
  9. skunkworks

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    I'm about to start studying the part in the Torah regarding appraisal, and "value".

    The part about Abraham is a misconception. He knew that her beauty would stir up the evil inclinations of the Egyptians, so he asked her to pretend to be his sister. They knew that if she did this the Egyptians would spare him, but if they knew she was his wife, they would most likely kill him. Pharoah himself takes Sarah by force, what can one man do against a Pharoah? Sarah saves Abraham's life, how is this misogyny?

    If the Torah was truly misogynistic Jewish women would have practically no rights, yet it's the complete opposite.



    It's easy to bash something when you don't completely understand it.
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2005
  10. Nerwyn

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    Yeah, go Scorpio! I'm tired of people bashing on religion (especially Christianity) when they don't even know what they're talking about and/or try to persuade others using personal agendas without giving the entire point of view. Which, usually, is a point of view that they can't understand as they've never held it. (I'm not picking on this thread in particular, as I've been debating this same thing in a couple of other threads.)

    Imagine debating the existence of light with someone who's been completely blind his entire life. Others say that light exists, but the blind person can't prove it for himself and therefore because it isn't "logical" that it exists, then he feels that he has to right to convince others that it doesn't exist either.

    Exactly. :wink
     
  11. Sands

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    there are those who are very serious about their religion and those who are more relxed about it. of course it is easy to bash what u don't understand.if u understand the other religions better then u will understand their actions although not all are understandable
     
  12. skunkworks

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    C'mon, a secular world wouldn't exactly turn out much better. There are assholes on both sides, we should be pinning the blame on people, not religion. Stalin wasn't religious, and he killed tons of people in the name of communism.
     
  13. Sands

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    true.because people might use religion to give reasons for actions that cannot be understood.
     
  14. Lucero del Alba

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    Or, imagine someone who can't see the sun, so decides that the light comes from the gaping mouth of a giant rainbow bunny. You've even read about it in a book and heard about it from your parents. Imagine that if you do not believe in the giant bunny on the other side of the earth providing you with light and nourishment apparently for naught else but his own amusement, you will be burned eternally. People live and serve this bunny in fear for their entire lives but you seek to find the truth behind the bunny. You begin to realize that the texts of this mighty bunny are highly falsified, created from fear of the unknown, and meant to lead the ignorant around by inducing a false sense of placement and comfort. When you realize that all of things in the bunny book can't coincide with what you've discovered on your search, you attempt to share your knowledge with others so that they might be educated and make decisions armed with knowledge rather than mere unbacked superstition about an angry bunny. You spend the rest of your life belittled and rediculed by the same people who claim that the bunny that will set you on fire loves you and is kind and their goal is to spread knowledge and love of the bunny. And you never tried to convince anyone it didn't exist, merely justified why you didn't believe and tried to stop you from convincing more that it did without them having heard the other side of the argument.

    You are a hypocrite, btw. What right have you to determine what rights the rest of us have while you try and convince others that they will be cast into a lake of fire if they don't blindly accept your word for it and worship a god they can't know exists?
     
  15. metalanime

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    religion, IMO is 100% crap used for deception, conditining the flock and separation of different people to prevent unity across the world because people will fight and kill for thier beliefs. That is not divine power, that is human stupidity greed and egoism and belittlement simultaneously at its height. I personally believe that to say there is a higher being is the same as saying I am trash and that people should be responsible through thier own actions and strenthen themselves and believe in thier own power, rather than saying that they are weak and praying for power from a fictional deity. I dont care if anyone else is religious as its none of my concern. I accept people for what they are and I never force my views.

    Seriously, people believed long ago we were dug from the ground by pigs, some people believe were were from ears of corn, some people believed man was created out of clay by a higher being and that being created women from mans rib. Do any of these 3 things really make any more sense than the other 2?

    "You are your own God, I am my own God" Vehemence - God Was Created
     
  16. bozic

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    There are many people that use religion as a tool for their own personal benefits. Suicide bombers are often brainwash that what they do is what god what wants and that they will go to heaven.

    It has alwasy been fighting between different religions. In some places entire
    ethnic group has been exterminated, just because they were of a diffrent religion.

    I personally think that some ,not all religion ,as it is now should be must change.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2005
  17. skunkworks

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    IMO, Islam is in desperate need of some change. They (not all of them of course) are still stuck in that medieval mentality.
     
  18. WayfarerStrife

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    Well, the Muslims are usually a peaceful group of people ... the reason why suicidal bombers arises is due to their background ... most of these people are from war torned countries with very little education, who believe that there is Holy war going on between them and the West, and that by killing "bad" people you go to Heaven ... and with this wrong views in their mind, they do about killing people in fits of lunacy ... :tem
     
  19. ninja_in_the_night

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    honestly...i think people should do some reasearch and find their way back to the 13 origions of religion...and trace those back to the 1 origional religion and find the truth behind it all...
     
  20. Nemesis Moderator

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  21. SublimeTruth

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    Wow.. some of you can write a load of balony...
    Let me ask a few questions here, and set things straight.

    To people who say God doesnt exist, I ask this: Why do you say God doesnt exist? If ur answer is "there is no proof of his existance", then I ask you this: Do you know everything? If you answer yes, you need to take it easier on the pills. Then I ask you: Do know half of everything? Let suppose you did, dont you think theres a very big possibility that God could exist in the other half?

    To most of you I ask this: Let say that God didnt exist, who/what created the universe? The "Big Bang"? Seriously folk, can i laugh at you now or later? Did you know the evolution theory has absolutly NO evidence which supports it? Ok, most of you have heard this about this rediculious thing called the Geological Column right? Now, what if I told you that thing doesnt exist, except in one place : Textbooks. Listen to this nonsense: When you ask any Geoligist "how do you tell the age of a fossil?", his answer will be:
    "By the Geological plates". Then you say, oh really, thats interresting, and how do you tell the age of the Geological Plates? His answer will be :" by the fossils it contains" Now folks, anyone not catching that, thats called "Circular Reasoning". If anyone tells you that they tell the age of a fossil by CarbonDating, then my friend, i must inform you that that person is without a doubt lieing. You see, the "Geological Column" was "invented" in that 18 hundreds i think it was, by not some Genius Proffesor of Science, but a laywer, but what i found most interresting is that, at that time, there was no such thing as CarbonDating or any of the other proccesses we have today. Now how exactly did he know how old they were? Folks, he invented numbers. If you still dont believe me, let me ask you this: Have you seen petrified trees before? Now Im sure you have, at least once, or at least heard about it. Now what if I told you that some of those trees go not only through 1, but THREE plates? Folks that would mean that tree would have standed there dead for about 13millions years. Dont you think it would have rotten away in that time, even a little? Heres another one: If those plates are differnt ages, then why do they fit on top of each other so perfectly? No traces of erosion between them? So you are telling me it never rained ONCE in that age? Or any animals walked on that spot?
    Folks there are endless cases of evidence disproving Evolution. I could write a 500 page Post here, but i doubt you guys would read through it all.

    Now. if u really wanne know the truth, visit this site : and I can tell you, ALL the answers are on there people.

    Now, doesnt that prove that there HAS to be a God? A Creator. A Devine Designer. Yes folks, it does. I know who I believe to be God, whereas some differ from me here, but that is your own choice.

    As to the "Danger" in Religion, I say that there is only one dangerous Religion : Evolution. And if you dont believe me, read up on that site i listed.
    All the people you guys mentioned were nuts, it had nothing to do with religion.

    Now, I will tell you what IS dangerous. People, some of you have been so indoctrinated and brainwashed that you cant ask simple questions about events going on around you. Like this good one: "Who told the Air Force to stand down on 9/11?" or this one: "Why were there BOMBS planted in the Trade center?" Folks, open your eyes. If you wanne see how much you have really been decieved, go here:
    Take The quiz yourself! along with the other site i mentioned. Its scary people, I implore you: Inquire and THINK for yourselves.

    Now that all being said, i suspect i'll most likely get kicked of NF, the one speaking truth always gets silenced somehow. Oh well, if theres at least one of you out there who opens their eyes after this, then mission accomplished. Id do it again and again and again.

    That all from me. Flamers, I bid thee: Cometh hither and doeth thy worst.
     
  22. Cthulhu-versailles

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    wow I so thought this thread was dead but lagasp it's not. Um right away within the first pargraph of ur post you just told everyone that God exist and if you don't believe he does your wrong, because you don't have any reason to say God doesn't exist. Umm dude what makes you so sure he does. Don't go around stating absolutles when there are no absolutles on the topic of God. Neither side has any justification for what they believe, they just do. God and religion need not be associated, I believe in neither but I am specifically disgusted with how people submit to religion like mindless ants. Furthermore unlike the topic of God there is proof about how religion and how it has been tainted and used by humans.

    ...Second- I never mentioned 911 as being a result of religion, 911 is a bad example because it is twisted individuals that perpatrated an act of violence- thus there is no connotation between religion and those particular terroist acts. A better example of religion and violence going hand in hand are the many wars going down in africa.

    If you look at history, beside attributing everything to the nature of man, as some of you like to do, the secondary cause of both conflict and death has been the predominant rain religion has had on society. Many pratices and beliefs were acted out and religion was used as the striving force behind that actions...(the excuse and holy justification)

    -Why did europians think it was okay, actually it was cool to take slaves.. because some jack ass said it was within the bible that blacks were not humans, that slaves should be taken.

    -Why were women oppressed and without rights for so long.. A key aspect is religion. Back before man had been a sedientary society Women were very much as equal and generally more respected then there male counter parts. The height of this was when homosapiens had grasped how babaies where born but still did not have a huge wide scale function group of cities.

    Women at that time were worshipped and important due to there fertility.

    -----Yet strangely enough around the turn of what was it the um 12 century( i forogt) when organizes religion finally came into play and the role of men was beginning to become somewhat subdue- religion made a forefront to the top of the food chain and with it cascaded women down to the bottom.

    -Organized religions during wars use to kill those who were considered HERETICS or even those who had a diffrent religion. -I so wich I remeber exact dates and names because I would be able to give easily 10 wars that were fought in the name of religion and that killed millions.

    - In canada and other place in the world when immigrants first came over the first thing that was used as a reason why they were nothing, but low level primatives was that they were of a diffrent religion.

    Organized religion has done nothing but convert more people towards it cause- while still continuing to mainatain it prejedices wrapped in a shroud of old english and pretext- thus few even know what the hell there reading and have been "brainwashed" since there children to configure to whatever there parents have taught them.

    ONE more thing I now relaize that generalizing to all religions is a mistake, so I will say this any religion that utilizes the same principles as buddism is exempt from my coments- if you know anything about buddism u'll know why I say this.

    Ps: err the above my be highly unorganize because I respond while being very annoyed, after being subjected to read such clear hypocracy.
     
  23. skunkworks

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    It seems like your beef is with people, not religion so much.
     
  24. Dark Schneider

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    Wait wait...how does that make the bible the "right" doctrine to believe. So your basically implying that the bible is more credible then hundreads of years of experiments and research?

    First we have to ask are selves what is science exactly ( taken from dictionary.com)

    Science: The observation, identification, description, experimental investigation, and theoretical explanation of phenomena

    What really irks me off, is that creationists never provide any evidence to support their claims. All they do is, dismiss evolution. Wow, that really is convincing.

    Yes, science cannot explain everything...but you know what it explains more then religion. Before something is announced as fact, lengthy experiments, are conducted. New discoveries, are debated for long periods of time, before they are excepted by the scientific community. Scientific theories, are never set in stone, they are always changed/improved with time. Whereas religious doctrines remain the same for thousands of years. Science is modern, religion is not for the most part.

    Tell me though O wise one, how is Zeus or any other Greek/Roman God different from the God now? Really, there isn't any evidence to confirm their existance. So you know what I'd rather believe in Zeus, because he some serious ass.

    This idea, also leads me to my next point. I think I'm going to create my own religion. Where everyone must worship the almighty cat. Of course I don't need to show proof that such a cat exists. I'll write my own doctrine of course, and in a thousand years or so. I'll have masses of people following it.Why didn't I think of this before? If "blind faith" is all you need then, this theory is fool proof ;)
     
  25. SublimeTruth

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    Hey hey hey gentlemen, you need to be able to READ before you can actually reply.

    First off, quoting from the dictionary doesnt prove Jack, my friend. Words change and along with them, meanings of those words, let take one, the word "refill", which nowadays means to "fill again", whereas a few hundred years it meant simply "to fill". So if you wanne quote from something, quote from something thats CONSTANT.

    Secondly people (seriously.... READ), i clearly said : "There is a God, I know who MINE is, whereas some people DIFFER (meaning boys and girls, that they have someone ELSE they worship) from me in this respect.

    And no proof for the Creation theory? Did you even go to the link i gave?

    AS to the 9/11 thing i mentioned ppl. I never said it had anything to do with religion? I SAID: "Now Im going to tell you what is dangerous", didnt I?
    But I cant blame you ppl, your so bloody brainwashed, you cant even think about this kinda stuff.

    And lastly Murals: Me saying that your supposed hundreds of years of "scientific" research is a load of balony? Yes, Im saying exactly that. If u have a problem with that, then enjoy worshipping your "cat" god (Oh btw, your a few hundred years to late, theres already a cat god). And like i said, your whole bloody Evolution theory is based on the "works" of a Laywer? o.0
    Seeing as you people dont like looking at a site for yourselves, I guess I'll have to feed it to you like babies:
    <-- On the subject of Carbon dating
    <-- Evolution in a nutshell
    <-- Have a look for yourself
    <-- Things that make Evolutionists look stupid
    And the one you all crave so desperatly: <-- Evidence of Creation

    Next person that responds: READ what was said, and for Pete's sake, VISIT the links would you? The links contain the facts, boys and girls. READ up before you wanne take me on on this, okay?
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2005
  26. Lucero del Alba

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    All that's left now is to decide who gets to take care of this ^ :laugh

    It's a juicy opportunity [maybe too juicy :shifty] but I am rather sleepy so I'll let it pass and in the morning I'll laugh at the response of whoever does decide to give it a twist.

    I'd would like to point out one thing that I just can't leave sitting, though:

    Are you, by any chance, aware of the irony that occured when you screamed at people to think for themselves, yet when furnishing what very minimal backup for your statements that you did manage to provide, you pull links to some ppv cult-extremist websites that indoctrinate only those of the absolutely weakest minds? One man's idea on the subject is still that, it doesn't change just because you believe what they told you about it, and I'd bet dollars to pennies you didn't think up god all by yourself :amuse You might have with the rest of the shit you said though because I see absolutely no substantiation behind any of your arguments, if they can be labeled as such.

    And I gave you a chance; even though I was fully aware of what would be found, I went to those two links you provided, just to allow you due process. There was no proof there, and nothing resembling it. Unfounded crackpot sentiments of an ignorant mind's denial is all. To truly believe the things you say and think the way you do you must be A: Retarded B: Fucking with everyone or C: ...Retarded. Or you might need some sort of psychological treatment. I hope for your sake that you're just trolling for trolling's sake.

    There are so many...things...lol, but I must forbear any further discussion on the matter. I have a goal that I must attend to before I can go to bed, and as tired as I am right now, sleep is imperative in the immediate future. At least I can rest comfortably knowing that there are about seven people here that can take care of this at least as well as I can. Actually, there are a few who's technical knowledge on the subject far surpasses my own, but I meant on on idealogical level. Either way would be fine, actually, but I lack the education on the subject necessary to delve too deeply into the other side of the coin.

    Whatever the case may be, and whoever might take that case on in the absence of Judge∙I┼☼, I wish you well because I desire to awaken to the sweet smell of humor in the morning :laugh

    [edit]

    ah, I see things were edited in while I was typing this. No matter, I still intend to sleep well.

    Oh...yeah, if you want to take the debate in that direction [which has already been done in a more eloquent fashion by someone with more knowledge on the subject than yourself, I might add] this is not the thread for it.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2005
  27. SublimeTruth

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    Oh Mightiest of Judges, with thy high ways in the art of the English language, before I fall before thy knees and succumb to thy reasons and be swept away by thy most profoundest of wisdoms, I again just wish to point one or two things out.

    What I meant by think for yourself is : Read what I provide (And Oh Judgy, if u did that in what? an odd 20 minutes? Then I truly salute you, for then you are the fastest reader I have ever met. Really) and THEN decide for yourself whether you wane believe it or not.
    And, just to let you know, if u actually took some time out of talking and spreading out all that vile gas, otherwise known as your ego, and actually read what I provided, then you would see that everything is based on facts my dear friend, whereas yours are based on a Lizard giving birth to a Bird (If u don?t know what im talking about, then I suggest you get a life and read a little more).

    NOW: as you have said, I may not be an exact expert, BUT, the people I refer you to ARE. As for elegance my friend: That went out the door when you crackpots came up with these REDICULIOUS, UNFOUNDED and plain STUPID theories.

    Now if u have any more egotistical and idiotic comments, you can PM, as ive got a life to return to this next week, and wont have time to read your garbage until then. (Or just keep this thread alive until then, doesn?t matter to me either way).
     
  28. Dark Schneider

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    Firstly it was very late, secondly, I skimmed through your post and it seemed like a bunch of redundant bullshit.

    As for your websites...can I say what a load of bull again? Another biased evangelistic website, which tries to discredit the merits of science.
    Now that we've gone through that, can you provide me some objectional websites which are not saturated by people who only try to descredit science. Thats the problem with you neo creationists. Never any evidence to support your claims, but always jumping the gun on science. I don't see how that supports creationism.

    Once again I'll say science is not perfect, but damn it's more credible then this.

    So provide me evidence supporting creatonism. Keep in mind this does not include websites that only try to descredit science

    Edited to add: My definition of science, was simply there, so that you'd have an idea what science is--because you damn well don't.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2005
  29. Lucero del Alba

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    I think you mean be open minded then, not think for yourself.

    And yeah, I read the links in about five minutes, actually, maybe between five and ten. I had to type the post as well, you know. I apologize if the basis of your knowledge of reading speed is derived from a group of blind and illiterate elderly folks in an institution somewhere, but I know many people here on the forums that can read just as fast as I can and who would have no problem taking out those four or five articles in a matter of minutes.

    Thank you for noticing, I am quite fond of my bloated hubris actually ^^ And your sarcasm failed heavily as I was not in any way attempting to inundate you with an overwhelmingly impressive vocabulary [not that you've made it terribly difficult for someone to do so].

    Luckily for you someone who does know what they are talking about and how to articulate that knowledge [baconbits. I don't agree with him, but he provides good info for the most part and debates his points very well] shares your pov, in the most general of senses, of course. It has been discussed to death and as I said before, this isn't the thread for it.

    This discussion no longer has anything to do with its original subject matter, therefore I declare it dead.
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2005
  30. Sesha

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    Make something into politics, then everything can be bad and bring pain. End of discussion.
     
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