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Dispelling Rsm Misconception(s) Part 2[LONG READ]

Discussion in 'New Leaf' started by Hagoromo Ohtsutsuki, Oct 4, 2018.

  1. Hagoromo Ohtsutsuki Sage Of Six Paths

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    There are many misconceptions regarding Rsm. I’ll be addressing 9 of them here. Since far more information is available today on this topic than before, the goal here is to use that new context to better understand the topic(s). Let’s jump right in.

    Claim 1: ‘There is no mention of Biju chakra in the Rsm databook page=Rsm doesn’t use the Biju.’

    Claim 2: ‘Rsm is determined by Naruto’ eyes.’

    Ok so the databook is meant to be used as a point of reference, it’s pages are solely informational. That includes the images, their descriptions and the main text. Each play their part in offering context and information about a topic. Keep this in mind.

    Now let’s look at the Rsm databook page, specifically the image highlighted in blue.
    At first glance, the picture just shows Naruto kicking the TSO. Now many people believe this alone is enough to reach the conclusion that Naruto is depicted using Rsm, but that’s WRONG and here’s why.

    That conclusion didn’t account for the image’ caption, and essentially replaced it with an interpretation or personal belief of what is being shown. This creates a measure of inaccuracy, which then leads to a compromised understanding of both the entire page and topic. The good news is we can avoid that margin or error with a working translation of the image caption to learn the intended meaning. Using to the PROVIDED CAPTION makes for better comprehension of both the image and the overall topic. This is well known.[ ] [2] [ ] [4] [ ] [ ]

    So here’s what the image description says, highlighted in green:
    ‘Kicking the "Truth-Seeking Ball"! Exceeding te Kurama Mode, a feat accomplished by a huge chakra.’

    Ok so based on the PROVIDED CAPTION we know that the image of Naruto kicking a TSO is a feat that required chakra greater than Kcm. What does this mean?

    Well for starters, Claim 1 just got debunked. By simply reading the caption, you learn that Naruto’ kick required chakra levels greater than what he uses for Kcm, which at that point was half of Kurama.
    Spoiler:






    Secondly, we know that during the war Naruto did have more chakra than just half Kurama, as he also had fragments of the remaining 8 Biju. Naruto had acquired their chakra over the course of the war, and by time him and Hagoromo had their initial meeting, Hagoromo states that Naruto [has met multiple conditions required for the power he's about to receive. One of which he, Shukaku, Gyuki and Kurama agreed on was having chakra from each Biju. Hagoromo goes on to call them out by name, further recognizing their collective presence. This is important because Hagoromo ‘believed that the bond known as cooperation was true power'.
    Spoiler:
    He also knew that Ashura gained power through cooperation,
    Spoiler:
    and sees Naruto as 'quite similar to Ashura’ in that regard. Now granted those fragments are small compared to an entire half of Kurama. So much so that Naruto nearly died twice when he had them(once when madara took his half of Kurama and again later during vote2 after Naruto lost his arm), but when they’re working together and cooperating ‘they aren’t lacking in power.’
    Spoiler:




    Ok so Naruto had chakra from each Biju, what’s the big deal?

    Well having those 9 chakras and then mixing them results in the Juubi’ chakra.
    Spoiler:



    It’s why akatsuki were on missions to capture the jinchuriki.
    They were after each Biju, specifically their power/chakra. When chakra from each Biju mixes, you create a greater power. That power is the Juubi’ own chakra, also called Rikudo Senjutsu. It’s the exact power both Obito and Madara gained after sealing each Biju(or their fragmented power) inside of the Gedo Statue, and then into themselves. This made them become Juubi Jinchuriki which granted them the power to achieve Rikudo Sagehood through transformation. Naruto was also consider a Juubi Jinchuriki because he had the chakra of all 9 Biju sealed inside him as well, and with their cooperation those 9 fragments were used to achieve the same power, Juubi chakra aka Rikudo Senjutsu.
    Spoiler:





    What’s the significance of Rikudo Senjutsu?

    The same way any other Sage has to gather Senjutsu or Sage Chakra before achieving Sagehood, mixing those 9 chakra was Naruto’ method of ‘gathering’ Rikudo Senjutsu that he uses to enter Rsm. Simply put, Juubi Chakra is Rikudo Sage Chakra. The proof of this is in manga chapter 666. Here we see Obito take some Biju chakra from the Juubi inside of Madara, ‘only [grabbing] a small piece of One Tail and Eight Tails’.
    Spoiler:
    I
    Madara goes on to say that because Obito was once a Sage he was able to take some Sage Chakra from him. Now before the war, Obito has no prior Sagehood experience, so the only thing Madara could be talking about is Rikudo Sagehood. So the fragments of chakra that Obito took from Madara was Rikudo Sage Chakra aka Juubi chakra. Which makes sense because Hagoromo literally divided the Juubi into the 9 Biju. Meaning Obito and Madara were both Rikudo Sages during the 4th war, and became so using all 9 Biju in its regathered form; the Juubi.

    Furthermore prior to entering Rsm, Naruto’ power starts gradually rising.
    Spoiler:
    Madara noticed this steady increase which was immediately followed with feats by Naruto that isn’t possible using only half Kurama and the pieces of One and Eight tails Obito took from him.

    Spoiler:
    ']https://imgur.com/a/PNAYsSP


    This increasing power allowed Naruto to kick the TSO, dodge Limbo, and use Lava Rasenshuriken, this wasn’t just those three chakra in play, this was Naruto gaining new power as he tapped into all 9 Biju chakra, One through Nine tails.

    Naruto’ power continues to rise then he enters Rsm. At that point Madara knew what Naruto’ increasing power was. He knew because once it fully manifested, he realized that same power he had himself because of his Sage Transformation. Naruto had been producing and increasing his level of Rikudo Senjutsu.
    Spoiler:
    Debunking claim 1, again.

    Ashura’ case is no different. Ashura received Rikudo Senjutsu and Rsm through Ninshu(Wait really? YES). Hagoromo, who was the Juubi Jinchuriki at the time, used Ninshu in cooperation with Ashura, shared his Rikudo Sage Chakra and gave him Rsm. This is supported by:

    • Hagoromo’ account of Ashura’ rise to power during his talk with Naruto. His description of what happened matches Ninshu through and through (first scan green highlight).
    Spoiler:


    • The reason Hagoromo could recall the event, He was obviously present when they clashed. So he had to have linked with Ashura via Ninshu. On top of that, the qualities that made Hagoromo choose Ashura as the leader of Ninshu are the same for why he was chosen to receive Rsm. Go figure.

    • The way Ninshu was stated and shown to work. Between Madara’ statement,
    Spoiler:
    Naruto sharing Kurama Chakra with the Allied Shinobi Forces,
    Spoiler:
    and Minato sharing his half of Kurama with Naruto,
    Spoiler:
    Ninshu is shown to be very much capable of having Hagoromo cooperate with Ashura by sharing the Juubi’ Chakra aka Rikudo Sage Chakra.

    Now before you jump out the window screaming how the scan says he awakened power, he rivaled Indra. To that I say yes, he in fact did. Through Ninshu, the linked chakra from those around Ashura all went to him, and inside of him awakened said powers(red highlight).
    Spoiler:


    That includes Hagoromo who had just passed the torch of Ninshu to Ashura. Proving outright that Ashura needed the Juubi’ Chakra/Power in order enter Rsm.

    Now let’s take another look at the moment Naruto becomes a Rikudo Sage. It is much like the moment Madara and Obito underwent their transformation to become Rikudo Sages. Each had the hallmarks of Rikudo Senjutsu, which are 9 Tomoe and Rinnegan appearing on the back, as well as TSOs floating behind them. So we see that even when the methods are different, Rikudo Sagehood was achieved and verified both visually and verbally using the same rubric, without any mention of eyes. This is how canon proves successful Rikudo Sagehood.

    Back during training in Mount Myoboku, when Naruto gathers senjutsu, rings are shown around his eyes proving successful Toad Sagehood.
    Spoiler:
    ']https://imgur.com/a/8ZZf8
    This solidifies that Rikudo Sagehood and Toad Sagehood have different verification, debunking claim 2 outright.


    Claim 3: ‘That greater chakra that Naruto used to kick the TSO was his half of Hagoromo’ Chakra, not the Juubi’.’

    If that were true, then Hokage Naruto should still be using Rsm. Episode 65 of Boruto anime proves he(and presumably Sasuke) still has Hagoromo Chakra.
    Spoiler:
    So according to that claim, Hokage Naruto has all the same power that he did during the 4th war. If that’s true then his modes should be identical, but they aren’t. Hokage Naruto’ modes are noticeably different and it’s because he now lacks Rikudo Sage Chakra, which is the chakra he used to kick Madara’ TSO.


    Claim 4: ‘Hokage Naruto still uses Rsm, it just looks different because he doesn’t have the Biju.’

    This claim contradicts itself. During the war, the Biju were Naruto’ source of Rikudo Sage chakra. Hokage Naruto doesn’t have that power, we can prove this by taking a complete look at all versions of Hokage Naruto’ modes and search for canonical verification for Rsm. That being 9 Tomoes and Rinnegan appearing on his back and TSOs floating behind him.

    While you’re about to do your visual comparison, be sure to look at everything thing. Including his back(where cloaks designs are prominent), stomach(where the seal is), shoulders, and the backs of their hands. Pay attention to all of it while looking out for proper verification.

    First up is Kurama Mode:
    • Here is Naruto' 'Half' Kurama Mode and "Complete Kurama Mode".
      Spoiler:
    • Here is Hokage Naruto’ movie "Chakra Mode".
      Spoiler:
    • Here is Hokage Naruto' anime Kurama Mode.
      Spoiler:
    • Momoshiki senses only Kurama inside naruto
      Spoiler:
    • Momoshiki extracts chakra from only Kurama@4:40.
    Plus as Hokage, Naruto speaks only to Kurama on the Biju Psyche Plane multiple times. Like I said, all this proves the involvement a single Biju, Kurama.

    Now compare that to Rsm Naruto.
    Spoiler:
    You could easily spot the difference. This Naruto wields a power the others don’t, Rikudo Sage chakra. Which he gets from all 9 Biju, not just Kurama. So not only does Hokage Naruto lack evidence of Rikudo Sage chakra, but all his designs make him out to be using the same Ksm as he did during the war, or the equivalent of, now that he has full/complete Kurama.


    Claim 5: ‘No Sage Rings = Rsm.’

    While there are times where Hokage Naruto doesn’t have rings around his eyes like Rsm Naruto doesn’t, it’s moot since canon verifies Rikudo Sagehood without any consideration for eyes. Again, you don’t verify Rikudo Sagehood using eyes. On top of that Naruto has gone without rings around his eyes while being in Kurama Sage Mode and not Rsm.

    Gaiden chapter 700+3 page 11
    Spoiler:
    : Naruto activates Sage Mode, rings appear around his eyes.

    Gaiden chapter 700+3 page 18
    Spoiler:
    : Naruto deactivates Sage Mode.

    Naruto Gaiden chapter 700+4 pages 2-4
    Spoiler:
    : Naruto activates Kurama Sage Mode, no rings are present.

    Boruto Episode 38 @11:06, here Naruto starts off entering his part 1 initial Kurama cloak,
    Spoiler:
    then progresses into Kurama Sage Mode. Again, no rings appear around his eyes.

    In both cases, there are 0 signs of Rikudo Sage Chakra being used, so this debunks his eyes being indicative of or exclusive to Rsm. Plus Naruto never used a part 1 Jinchuriki cloak on himself during the war let alone to enter Rsm, thats what he gave to the 40k members of Alliance. Furthermore Shin clones, nor Byakuya thieves on a train, nor a few Jonin that were being trained during graduation exams are dangerous enough to warrant Rsm. They didn’t warrant a Kage Summit like Kinshiki and Momoshiki did either. To restate, these are examples of Kurama Sage Mode.

    ‘So why doesn’t he have rings like rsm Naruto?

    The explanation is actually simply. Just as Naruto can gather nature energy, so can the Biju. Kurama proved this during Naruto’ clash with Sasuke’ amped indra Arrow. Right before the clash, Kurama gathered a massive amount of nature energy, ‘everything that’s available’,
    Spoiler:
    which is easily far more than Naruto ever amassed at once on his own to date. Kurama gives that energy to Naruto,
    Spoiler:
    and clearly Naruto balanced all of it since he isn’t stone by now, yet he never gets those rings around his eyes. Years later, Naruto gathers far less nature energy without Kurama’ cooperation, and rings are back around his eyes.

    Conclusion: If there aren’t rings around Hokage Naruto’ eyes when he reaches Ksm, it means that Sage Chakra is being amassed by Kurama. If there are rings, Naruto himself is gathering that chakra. There you have it, you no longer have to cling to assumption that lack of rings automatically means Rsm. It has been debunked. Hokage Naruto’ lack of rings around his eyes don’t verify Rsm, it verifies his cooperation with Kurama when entering Ksm. No more no less.

    Plus Hokage Naruto, even without rings around his eyes, has 0 feats exclusive to Rsm or indicative of Rikudo Sage Chakra, because he’s really in Ksm. We haven’t seen flight, TSOs, plus no communication or cooperation with the other 8 Biju. That’s because he can’t use their chakra at the moment since they’re vestiges.


    Claim 6: ‘Naruto still has and uses the Biju/Hagoromo called him the meeting place.’

    During the time period of Shikamaru’ novel, which take place years after 4th war and before the last movie, which is also canon,
    Spoiler:
    Naruto’ former small pieces of each Biju
    Spoiler:
    have become vestiges.
    Spoiler:
    While both ‘vestige’ and ‘small piece’ describe low quantities, the two aren’t inherently or necessarily equal. This nuance is easily explainable.

    The Biju fragments inside Naruto started off as small pieces. Similarly, everyone in the alliance was given a small amount of Kurama Chakra from Naruto. Each of those fragmented chakra shrunk down to functionless levels.
    Spoiler:
    This only happened after they were used, the chakra didn’t just disappear without serving a purpose. This exact thing happened to Naruto' 1-8 tails fragments,
    Spoiler:
    )
    , and again after he met his parents chakra to reseal and control Kurama.
    Spoiler:
    The key here is to realize how The Alliance got their depleted chakra back to functional levels; and it’s because they relied on the actual Biju. It was Naruto, who used the half of Kurama inside Edo Minato, who delegated more chakra to those 40k fragments among the Alliance.
    Spoiler:
    None of the Alliance was able to gain more Kurama Chakra on their own or without the help of Kurama himself. Also once Kushina and Minato’ Chakra ran out, they weren’t around to replenish it. Thankfully Naruto got to see Minato again and relay a message to Kushina. Knowing this, Naruto can’t revitalize his lost 1-8 Tails Chakra on his own. Just like the Alliance, Naruto' depleted fragments must be replenished by an actual Biju or at the very least a larger fragment of their chakra. Hokage Naruto has yet to do this in canon, so those vestiges remain reduced in both usability and functionality just like the Kurama’ depleted fragments were inside the members of the Alliance before naruto aided them, and like Naruto’ parents’ chakra became after they were used against Kurama.

    Since some may not know it’s meaning, let’s take look at the word itself. Vestige means something is missing and/or lost, and from that lost item only a trace or a sign remains. It is the final remaining piece of something that no longer exists.

    Examples of vestiges are:
    • Footprints: indicating that a person was once there.
    • Hieroglyphs: remains of a lost language and society.
    • The last two drops of milk in a carton: indicating it’s no longer full.

    So it should be clear that a vestige represents a significantly small trace of its former self. Since we know where the Biju went after the war, back to their natural homes,
    Spoiler:
    they aren’t lost. What is lost are the fragments inside Naruto or the majority of their power. What remains are the psychic connections between him and them. The same connection Gaara proved he had with Shukaku during their recent conversation, despite Gaara also not having any Biju Chakra. That’s the extent of the capability of those vestiges. As fragments, their functionality started off limited because they were too low to sustain Naruto’ life, further proving they had a specific purpose which was help Naruto achieve Rikudo Sagehood. Still, over time(about 2 year) they’ve shrank into what they are now: vestiges.

    Going back to the novel page, it was established very clearly that Naruto had the cooperation and power of only kurama. Sakura asked about a singular ‘Tailed Beast.’ Few sentences later, narration states ‘in keeping the Tailed Beast.’ That’s also singular, meaning one Biju, Kurama.

    So Naruto has no real way to use those depleted Biju Chakra, if he even has any left. They’re too small for anything other than communication, which Garra has shown more feats of than Naruto.


    Claim 7: ‘Naruto was flying in The Last and flew twice in Boruto. Once to catch a train and again to save Sasuke from Momoshiki’ attack.’

    Naruto can only fly in Rsm, neither of those instances depict flight. If you believe it did, then you must also believe Naruto could fly before he even met with Hagoromo.
    Spoiler:
    In truth, Naruto’s only using Kurama the way he’s always been able to. It was even stated in The Last guidebook:
    ‘Caption for Naruto in Kurama Chakra Mode: The Shishou Fuuin becomes visible, and his chakra overflows like flames.’

    Naruto uses kurama as a propellant, no different from the flames of a jet engine.


    Claim 8: ‘Naruto adds Kcm cloak to his Rsm.’

    Rsm is one mode. Rikudo Sage Chakra grants both Tailed Beast power and Sage power. Obito used Juubi Chakra arms and bijudama,
    Spoiler:
    indicative of the Tailed Beast power. Obito and Madara used Sage Chakra and Sage Jutsu,
    Spoiler:
    indicative of Sage Power. Plus the juubi is nature energy itself,
    Spoiler:
    and was gathering more of that energy since it’s resurrection during the war.
    Spoiler:
    Having both powers already makes the claim 8 redundant.

    Naruto also displayed both Biju Mode traits and Sage Mode traits when using Rikudo Sage Chakra, proven by his increased sensory, him utilizing TSOs for several bijudama, and rasengan variations.
    Spoiler:
    His Rsm only resembles his previous Kurama Mode because Naruto doesn’t physically have the Juubi inside him, he has Kurama instead. Being the largest chakra and the only actual Biju inside Naruto at the time, Kurama logically contributed more to the Rikudo Sage Chakra that was used to enter Rsm. This was proven when Kurama gathered a massive amount of nature energy and sent it to Naruto during Vote2. This is why Naruto’ Rsm manifests with noticeable influence from Kurama.

    Plus The Last guidebook makes it crystal clear that during the movie Naruto used Kurama Mode with Sage Mode.
    Spoiler:

    ‘Kurama Chakra Mode

    Naruto exhibits overwhelming power when borrowing massive amounts of chakra from Kurama, who is sealed within him. Furthermore, when used in conjunction with “Sennin Mode,” it drastically increases his sensory ability and the power of the ninjutsu he employs…!!’

    Proving that databooks can and do state when multiple forms are used at once. This is not the case when Naruto uses Rsm, nor is it the case when Madara and Obito undergo Rikudo Sage Transformation. It is a single power.


    Claim 9: ‘If Sasuke gets to keep his Rinnegan Naruto gets to keep Rsm.’

    Despite not being confirmed in canon, I agree. That said, the issue I have with this logic is idea that Rinnegan and Rsm are on equal grounds and have the same requirements, they don’t. Madara alone is proof of this, he awakened Rinnegan and Rikudo Sagehood at different times using different powers. Rinnegan was with Hagoromo chakra, Rikudo Sagehood was with Rikudo Sage Chakra. This is essentially what I’ve been explaining on this thread. So while Sasuke still has Hagoromo chakra and can use his Rinnegan, Naruto doesn’t have Rikudo Sage Chakra and can’t use Rsm. That is the difference.

    So you’re saying Naruto lost Rsm?

    No, I’m not. Naruto still has Rsm, he just doesn’t have the Rikudo Sage Chakra to enter that mode. To better help you understand my point, consider this:

    Since his death, Minato hasn’t used Sage Mode for nearly 17 years,
    Spoiler:
    yet the moment he gathers the required sage chakra he enters the mode without difficultly.
    Spoiler:
    This is directly comparable to Hokage Naruto who himself hasn’t used Rsm in quite some time, over a decade.
    Spoiler:
    You’ll see that Naruto is in much of the same situation and is more like his father than previously thought. Now you wouldn’t say Minato lost his Sage Mode because he didn’t use it for all that time. No, he’d still be classified as a Sage. In the same manner, you’d be wrong to say Naruto lost his Rikudo Sage Mode just because he hasn’t used it since 4th war. So while I’m sure there are those who read this entire thread holding the idea in their head that I think Naruto lost Rsm, that isn’t my claim but more importantly that was never proven. In truth, the same way Minato regathered Sage Chakra and reentered Sage Mode, Naruto just has to regather Rikudo Sage Chakra before reentering Rsm, like he did during the 4th war.

    Now I want to make something very clear. We know that Rsm is form given to Naruto by Hagoromo. We see it in the manga and we have databook to confirm it. That said, I nor this thread claims that the Juubi gave Naruto Rsm or anything like that. I’ve simply proven that Rikudo Sagehood requires Rikudo Sage Chakra, which is identical to Juubi Chakra.

    So yeah, that’s most of what I wanted to address. If you made this far you’re insane, as I ended up typing way more than I thought I did. Anyways, Thanks For Reading.
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2018
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  2. Indra I can't stop eating

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    This ain't it chief
     
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  3. pat pat Well-Known Member

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  4. Rai Santa Rai

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    Adult Naruto is using Six Paths Sage Mode and he still has all the bijuu chakra as stated by Shukaku.
     
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  5. BlinkST All is well in the kingdom

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    @Klue Get in here!:skully
     
  6. Perfect Susano Well-Known Member

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    Hagoromo gave Naruto and Sasuke his power which was the Six Paths Power of Light and Shadow.

    The Six Paths Power of Light awakened Six Paths Sage mode in Naruto and the Six Paths Power of Shadow awakened the Rinnegan in Sasuke.

    It was stated in Shikamaru Hiden that Naruto being a jinchuriki for all of the Biju allowed him to be a pillar for the power of Ten Tails and that they allowed him to possess power akin to Hagoromo's even now. He still has Six Paths Sage mode, but not all of the powers that he possessed during the War arc like healing powers and Biju powered Rasengans. He can still use Asura Kurama though so he isn't necessarily weaker in raw power, he simply doesn't have as many abilities.

    It was stated that the Six Paths Power of Light allowed Naruto to infuse the different chakra natures of the Biju into his Rasengan. So that explains why we haven't seen those powers anymore. He no longer has the Six Paths Power of Light, the power that Hagoromo gave him that allowed him to do such things.
     
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  7. Wrecked Baloney Ho ho ho!

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    Is this just another "Rms doesn't exist in Naruto anymore" thread?
    :noah
     
  8. Munboy Dracule O'Brian Well-Known Member

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    RSM eyes = Naruto is not using RSM.

    :psyduck
     
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  9. pat pat Well-Known Member

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    In chapter 27 his design looks like an altered form of his young self RSM come on :fatcat
     
  10. Action Hero Biribiri

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    Ninja didn't you post this on this reddit. Didn't read it there and ain't gonna read it here.

    Naruto still has RSM, the end.
     
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  11. Munboy Dracule O'Brian Well-Known Member

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    Shukaku said this?
     
  12. Munboy Dracule O'Brian Well-Known Member

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    The OP's point relies on not using the word "vestige" in the proper context. :catprone
     
  13. Rai Santa Rai

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    Not exactly that, but Shukaku said he is still connected with Naruto and others.

    Which means Naruto still has the Bijuu chakra.

     
  14. kayz Well-Known Member

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    Adult Naruto now flies without RSM?? Man?
     
  15. kayz Well-Known Member

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    A divine state of awareness that makes one have absolute understanding of chakra, that's SPSM. It's not the body transformation that really matters. SPSM can be used in base, with no kyuubi/tailed beast mode.
     
  16. Mar55 The Darkness Rises

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    Just stop. No one is going to agree with your clearly incorrect theories, you've been corrected too many times.
     
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  17. Hagoromo Ohtsutsuki Sage Of Six Paths

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    Thread updated, I had to fix spoiler tags. All 9 claims should be there now. Will be reading and responding to replies.
     
  18. Hagoromo Ohtsutsuki Sage Of Six Paths

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    You restated parts of Claim 4, and Claim 6.
    This is addressed in Claim 4. Hokage Naruto modes all indicate ksm, not rsm.
    He didnt. Claim 6 thouroughly explains shukaku’ words.
    I’m actually using proper context. Which you can read in Claim 6.
    Except he didn’t say that at all. Even if Naruto did have shuakaku chakra, the amount would be too small to use it comat or like he did during the war. Claim 6 makes this crystal clear.


     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2018
  19. WorldsStrongest Padoru

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    My dudes...Fuck Shukaku... ...

    ...

    Also yeah...Adult Naruto has RSM...His eyes are proof of that

    Stop playin around in 2014 please
     
  20. Hagoromo Ohtsutsuki Sage Of Six Paths

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    This was addressed in Claim 6. Plus shikamaru’ novel happens years after chapter 696. Naruto used those chakra since then and they shrunk because of it. Just like the alliance’ kurama cloaks shrunk.
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2018
  21. WorldsStrongest Padoru

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    No...Because Shukaku states in the events of BORUTO, YEARS later, that his chakra along with the chakra of the other Biju is still within Naruto...

    Hagormo also states that they will ALWAYS be able to communicate with one another through their chakra within Naruto...Not something hed state if they had to worry about fucking paying for parking :lmao
     
  22. Rai Santa Rai

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    Not exactly, but it means Naruto still has the Bijuu chakra.

    I don’t know where you got that Naruto lost the Bijuu chakra; in no source states that at all.

    Non-combat? maybe, maybe that is why SPSM Naruto cloak looks different because he is only using Full Kurama chakra.
     
  23. Mar55 The Darkness Rises

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    Seriously, this shit should've died four years ago.
     
  24. Hagoromo Ohtsutsuki Sage Of Six Paths

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    You restated Claim 4.
    Nope. Not once did I claim that. Don’t misunderstand me. I suggest reading the OP in full.
    You restated claim 2 and 5.
    I post in many places, what’s the issue? Naruto having rsm was never a topic of the OP. It’s his usage of that power that’s in question. If you read the OP in full, you’ll understand me better and see that I agree with Naruto still having rsm. But having a phone and using a phone isn’t the same thing. Don’t make them this post about something it’s not. To be clear, this is about whether hokage Naruto uses rsm.
    You restated Claim 7.
    In different words, you’re restating Claim 8.
    Those alleged corrections fall short. Still, be specific, what exactly did you correct? There are 9 claims addressed here. So which one(s)are you speaking of?

     
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  25. Perfect Susano Well-Known Member

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    No I didn't. I brought up it being stated that Hagoromo's chakra which was the Six Paths Power of Light granted Naruto Six Paths Sage mode.

    As stated in Shikamaru Hiden, he still possesses Six Paths Sage mode despite no longer having the Six Paths Power of Light since being a jinchuriki of all the Biju makes him a pillar for the power of Ten Tails. I never said that he no longer has the Biju's chakra.

    So in turn he basically had 2 sources for Six Paths Senjutsu. The Six Paths Sage mode he got from Hagoromo granted him more abilities(Healing, infuse Biju chakra into Rasengans) than the one he has now.
     
  26. Hagoromo Ohtsutsuki Sage Of Six Paths

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    You're wrong, shukaku said he's sill connected to the other biju and naruto, not that all biju chakra is inside naruto. Plus your own logic suggests that the biju have enough chakra from one another to use each others jutsu. Basically you believe shukaku can use goku' lava release and that goku can se shukaka manget release solely because they've achieved a baseline connection. You're wrong.
    I also said:
    So he either has none of, or not enough of their chakra. Either way, he cant use them, just like he cant use his parents chakra that he once had.
     
  27. Hagoromo Ohtsutsuki Sage Of Six Paths

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    @bold Rikudo senjutsu has one source, juubi. You can gain the juubi power directly from it or by merging its 9 fragments.
    @italic You're restating Claim 8.

     
  28. Perfect Susano Well-Known Member

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    No, you can either get it from Hagoromo or you can get it by gaining the power of all the Biju. Naruto had 2 sources for Six Paths Senjutsu. The Six Paths Power of Light and the Biju as stated. So after he lost the Six Paths Power of Light, he still had Six Paths Senjutsu due to being a pillar for the power of Ten Tails via being a jinchuriki for all the Biju.

    I never said that he mixed Kurama chakra mode with Six Paths Sage mode. The Six Paths Sage mode granted by Hagoromo's seal gave Naruto unique abilities like healing and infusing the Biju's chakra natures into his Rasengans. When Naruto loses that seal he still has Six Paths Sage mode since he possesses another source for Six Paths Senjutsu which is the Biju, but he doesn't have all of the abilities that he had before which were specific to the Six Paths Power of Light(Healing, Biju chakra infused Rasengans).
     
  29. Mar55 The Darkness Rises

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    Can somebody close this shit?
     
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  30. Hagoromo Ohtsutsuki Sage Of Six Paths

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    You are restating claims 3, 4, 6, and parts of 8. All of which have thorough debunks.

    Naruto allegedly having 2 sources of a single power is both redundant and wrong. Hokage Naruto still has hagoromo chakra, yet none of his mode indicate rikudo sagehood. juubi power is the source of rikudo sagehood. In fact everything 'six paths' about hagoromo is juubi or Ohtsutsuki related. But thats a topic for later and besides the point.

    Naruto had the cooperaion of the biju before entering rsm. This was confirmed almost verbatim by hagoromo.

    Lastly Hokage naruto has 0 feats exclusive to rsm. Think about that. Everything done by hokage naruto is feasible for teenage kcm and/or ksm naruto. That in itself is telling.
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2018
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