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Does Black Clover contain Power/Spectacle Creep?

Discussion in 'Black Clover' started by DarkSlayerZero, Jan 24, 2018.

  1. DarkSlayerZero

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    This image is from another thread here.

    Had a BC discussion and someone mentioned that BC had Power/Spectacle Creep with no proof of course.



    Sure, the characters in Black Characters have gotten stronger over the course of the manga, however, Julius, Captains, Vice-Captains, Top Tier Third Eye Members, & The Witch Queen still eclipse the the individual squad members by a large margin. Even when Asta & Yuno do gain reasonable power ups the following still happens



    Yuno might have been able to stalemate Lil, he still didn’t actually win since Lil busted his own crystal. Currently, Yuno NEEDS his Spirit Dive transformation just to be able to contend with a Captain level opponent.




    Asta gets his power up and still gets checked by Mereoleona. Asta NEEDS his “Black State” just to contend with a Vice-Captain level opponent.

    Onto the other characters, Noelle did severely injury Vetto with her “Roar of the Sea Dragon” and would’ve killed him if regeneration wasn’t a factor. She lacks the speed & durability to be a constant threat to him at the time. She's a good example of a weaker character being able to hurt things way above her pay grade.

    Both Luck & Magna were able to fight Vetto but all they managed to do is pretty much tickle him. He even says that he let em hit him to see what they could do. Luck was able to contend with Vetto in physical combat and not get wasted.

    Finally Vanessa, “oh she has the OP fate manipulation” Nah it’s only useful if the cat can actually touch the individual that she’s targeting otherwise like with Noelle, she lacks the speed & durability in order to be truly overpowered.

    The series hasn't set a stupid high bar right at the beginning of the series save for rumors like Yami & Jack taking out a mountain during a sparring match. It's been pretty grounded so far.

    BC is a baby hamster compared to other series’ such as Bleach, Dragon Ball, or Naruto.
     
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  2. DarkSlayerZero

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    Moving on to the villains of the series.

    Third Eyes

    This is a small fav of mine from Aaaahsta



    Unlike Dragon Ball where a person will be like "who is Cell again?" when watching or reading the Buu saga, the mid to major villains from previous arcs are still capable of remaining a serious threat. In the above pic, Asta basically confirms that he(even with black mode) and Zora likely would've been screwed if Sisleon wasn't helping them. While the Third Eyes are a bit stronger than most Captains, they aren't stupidly above them.
     
  3. Milliardo

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    I don't think so just yet but we are still early in right? I don't know how long BC will go but powers seem accordance to the status of the characters. Of course Asta and Yuno are growing a lot as the main character and rival. Their colleagues are growing too which is a good thing hopefully they aren't left in the dust. They are still young though too.

    I recently caught up and I don't agree with what the Snake guy said going off the power creep part.
     
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  4. Tayimus

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    Power creep? In Black Clover?

    Save for Yuno somehow knowing Mana Zone, I vehemently disagree with this notion.
     
  5. DarkSlayerZero

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    I can't even think of anything plausible for Yuno other than good luck.
     
  6. Tayimus

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    Well, he does have the Four-Leaf Clover. :bookerskully
     
  7. MysticBlade

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    I honestly think a power creep is bond to happen soon.

    We have the demon from the beginning who was stated being more than capable of destroying humanity. From the first scan the amount of power displayed by that thing just standing looks insane.

    Right now we'r only focus on the interactions between the elfs and the clover kingdom.

    Yet other kingdoms like hearts spade and possibly joker (in reference to his manga hungry joker) not touched upon as yet.

    That alone open up to a power inflation when those kingdoms are fully expanded upon.
     
  8. Donquixote Doflamingo

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    Black Clover just has really fast passing. Which means charcterd grow stronger really fast.

    We will get some power creep soon which is fine IMO.
     
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  9. Milliardo

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    Yeah there definitely will be no doubt. I don't see a problem either.
     
  10. OS

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    Not atm but like all might and afo in bnha Licht and Julius are signs of where we’ll end up later.
     
  11. MysticBlade

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    Doubt it, Julius and licht are not the pinnacle of power shown in the series as yet. The first emperor is.

    As far as up the ladder goes currently is Morris. That dude gives off legit end game power. He's basically the Julius of the diamond kingdom but he acts more in the shadows like orochimaru/aizen. To show you how powerful he is, he thrown away fana who had the fire spirit. Called her a failure wheras licht thought she was powerful n recuted her.

    Licht VS Julius is more in line with orochimaru VS 3rd hokage from a verse comparison perceptive.

    A power creep is bond to happen soon, not that it bothers me.
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2018
  12. Mei

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    Full power Yami after training >= Julius and Licht
     
  13. Tayimus

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    I didn't even remember who Morris was until you brought up Fana. My one question with your assertion is do we know specifically what Fana got the Fire Spirit? Perhaps, it was only assumption but I thought she got it after getting corrupted by the White-Eyes. And what Morris saw was Fana's inherent healing powers, not any destructive capability. He had no use for the healing powers, so threw her away anyway.

    I can't double check this right now, but if it's like I think, then OS is right and Julius vs. Licht will probably be showcase for the current top level of the verse.
     
  14. MysticBlade

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    He saw the Phoenix in her, fire spirit.
    That's exactly what the fire spirit is.

    He tried to add a stone to increase it's overall magic power and the phoniex couldn't handle it almost depleting it's power.
    Ladros absorbed the fire spirit and he clearly resemble the phoniex.

    We have Morris and the heart kingdom and spade who has been introduce yet.
    Spade being one of the strongest.

    140 plus chapter dealing with a terrorist group and little interactions with the diamond kingdom generals.

    Do you honestly think this is going to be top tier level when we actually reach Morris and the other kingdoms?

    Better yet the place yami came from?
    The BC world is huge with possibilities being endless.
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2018
  15. Tayimus

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    What? The Fire Spirit is a dragon, or whatever fire themed lizard there are. Its name is "Salamander". It's clearly not the Phoenix powers Fana herself has. It's like Yuno having the Four-Leaf Clover but also having the Wind Spirit.

    And considering that Clover has been smacking the other Kingdoms around, yes, I do Julius vs. Licht will be the top level for quite some time. That's not to say that it won't be eventually surpassed, but I doubt it'll be reached for some time.
     
  16. MysticBlade

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    It's a power attributed to the salamander.
    Fire-recovery.

    Morris said that he was adding a magic stone to increase the phoniex's overall magic power. It's not just a technique, it's a source of power belonging to the salamander. How Morris worded it's clearly a other seperate source of mana outside her own. The phoniex brought her back to life, it's a living thing. The salamander.

    Hold on a minute.

    Where was that stated.
    Clover kingdom fights diamond generals and they're beating them? The other kingdoms has yet to be revealed.

    Ladros got the military surgery that grants him the ability to absorb and spite out what hits him.

    It can withstand the most destructive spirit mana. And was stated that only the witch queen had the power to over power it.
    That is a sergury a common diamond kingdom knight would receive.

    If implemented, the diamond kingdom fodders would be a huge threat to the captains of clover.

    Morris developed it, imagine what all broken scientific breakthroughs he discovered.

    Hell no the clover kingdom is the strongest.

    Licht VS Julius is going to be surpassed pretty soon.

    Yami was whoping him and leona is stronger than yami. Leona wouldve killed him and licht said he coulddnt even beat her brother that he needed time to plan and anbush him.

    The magic emperor isn't much stronger than leona and her brother if at all.

    Prime example. Liars getting his ass whoop with all his comrades powers. It doesn't even help your side that licht stated that liar was stronger than him.
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2018
  17. MysticBlade

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    To add.

    If the emperor struggles with licht then that'll mean he isn't as strong as we use to think.

    IIRC, it was stated that two magic knight captian were closes to becoming emperor.
    The two being, William and Fuegoreon.

    Fuegoreon being the strongest.
    Licht needed a plan to take down him.

    Now that we know William is licht. It would make sense that he'll know fuegoreon would be the most difficult to take down. Which is why he needed to plan so long to anbush him.

    Fuegoreon sister leona was stated being more powerful than him.

    Licht stated liar was stronger than him.
    Vetto was confirmed stronger by finral but having more power. Liars the strongest of the three on top of having access to all of his comrades powers while having more mana. Gets wrecked from Leona, casually at that too.

    So licht VS Julius is not where the series will stand later on. Yuno's basically catching up with and surpassing some captains while asta is following in a similar fashion.

    My theory is that leona is going to lose once liar Trump card is played. Something about resurrecting. That asta and yuno will have to take him on catching up with leona to surpassing her this very same arc.

    That's how this arc is set up.
     
  18. Tayimus

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    Where is it specifically attributed to the Salamander? When Fana was trying to heal Mars, she couldn't cause she was completely out of mana. Yet, Ladros stole the Salamander after that, and forgive me if I'm misremembering, but he didn't display healing abilities after doing so.


    For context. Now, what you stated was your interpretation. I saw it as Morris not seeing Fana as a human, more as just a utility, but actually used her name when talking to someone else--which is supported by him actually turning away from Fana. Also, your explanation has too many holes. Why is the Salamander called Phoenix? Why doesn't it look like a Phoenix? When using her healing powers, why doesn't Fana say something like Salamander Magic or Spirit Magic? Why doesn't MARS have the Spirit Magic, but has the Phoenix healing? It doesn't make sense for Salamander to be her Phoenix. It makes more sense for the Phoenix to be a manifestation of her own healing magic, and the Salamander to be her Spirit Magic. Let's not forget that the Salamander was puny when we first met Fana, and was huge when next we see her. If size is an indicator of power growth, then either the Salamander was microscopic when Morris threw her away, or she didn't have the Salamander for very long before facing the Black Bulls.



    If you have scans of Clover suffering a loss, I am willing to change what I asserted. Til then, all we have to go on are victories on at least two of the other Kingdoms, maybe even three. And yes, Clover beat a Diamond General twice. Mars and Ladros are Shining Generals.

    Okay.

    He's a general.

    Say what? It took something like fifteen years for Mars and Ladros to prove their worth before going through the implementation process. Why would Diamond waste valuable resources on fodder? That makes no sense.

    Supposition. Backed up by nothing in the manga. For all you know, the one experiment we know of could be his only successful breakthrough.

    Who has beaten them so far?

    Okay.

    Eh? Yami is weaker than Licht. This is outright stated in the manga. What helped Yami was that he had an elemental advantage over Licht. Not to mention, Gauche also has an elemental advantage and reflected Licht's own attack which would have killed Yami. C'mon man.

    Where is it stated that Licht needed the ambush? I thought that was assumed by Yami and Nozel.

    Not only do you not know that, it's not even supported by the manga. Licht got the drop on Julius, but Julius still countered him. Licht got the drop on Fuego, and Fuego lost an arm. C'mon man.

    The fight isn't even over. Talk after the fight's over.

    I'll get to your other post later.
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2018
  19. Milliardo

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    The magic emperor has to be balls to the wall badass. I have a hard time seeing him being weak like barely above the captains because of not only his position but as Asta' s goal too. I could be wrong but Licht will probably try something similar like he did against Fuegoreon Vermilion.
     
  20. Jackalinthebox

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    What suggests Leona or Fuego are even on Julius's level?

    I mean...Asta was far more impressed by a casual Julius, than he was by Fuego's fight with Rades
     
  21. MysticBlade

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    You know, asta cut her inside of the fire spirit self destruct magic. That's why she couldn't heal.
    He couldn't because asta zap his mana completely.
    I'm not going to bother with this point because we clearly have two different views.

    That's only from their point of victories.

    Nothing about defeating their kingdoms.
    Just preventing a invasion.
    Because ladros stated he underwent the military surgery.

    Military as in army.
    Army as in knights.

    It's not exclusive but something their military offers.

    There's nothing stating a fodder can't undergo surgery. Once their in the military is the only requirement.
    I'm not supposing anything.

    I'm merel illustrating Morris as a measure in what is more significant to the future of BC.

    For peace same he's intentionally being block out everytime he's mentioned.
    He has a significant role later on, all we know is he's a scientific mage who's the diamond kingdom equaliant to Julius being the emperor behind his king.
    Never said yami was, what i said was yami was whooping his ass. That actually happened.


    Chapter 47 page 14
    He addmitted.

    My point still stands.


    Leona > Fuegoreon> liar> licht.

    All backed
    All statements.

    End of discussion.

    On phone top many typos.
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2018
  22. Tayimus

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    Huh?



    After Ladros absorbed the Fire Spirit, and before Aster defeated him. Ladros still has the stab wound. No healing in sight...

    Of course not. There's way too many questions for what you asserted. Some you didn't even bother answering because they're damnable to your theory.

    What's your point?

    Excuse me? In what way is preventing an invasion not defeating an opposing Kingdom? Break that shit down for the rest of us.

    After literally something like a decade at least of proving himself to be powerful and then underwent the surgery. He wasn't weak and then was given power. He wasn't a fodder. Time and energy was put into him from when he was a kid. We see this clearly with what happened with Mars. Dude had to survive a Battle Royale, and then went through the surgery.

    Time, as in years before the surgery was performed.
    Generals, as in Ladros and Mars.

    I don't see how this addresses what I said.

    Nothing states a fodder can't undergo the surgery. It's just common sense to see that the military aren't using fodder. Cause...why haven't they? Instead, they took random ass kids, trained them for God knows how long until they were strong, Battle Royaled them, and then did the surgery.

    I don't normally say this, but "Bruh".

    :notrust

    The Diamond Kingdom will be important later on, but saying their fodders will be Captain-level is pushing it. Especially based on your faulty reasoning.

    I'm not even gonna comment on Morris' power level, cause again, that's supposition. We don't know his level. He could be stupidly powerful, but your opinions on it are again based on faulty reasoning.

    Conveniently left out that Licht was gonna kill Yami before Gauche intervened...


    For reference.

    Excuse me? You asserted that Licht actually needed the trap to defeat Fuego. This page doesn't prove anything except that yes, Licht is the one that defeated him. This doesn't state that Licht would not be able to defeat Fuego. If anything, one could say that Licht needed to separate Fuego from the Kingdom of Clover so he could defeat him without interference.

    C'mon.

    And for further reference, next page--

    This is Yami assuming. And would later be proven wrong cause even with Yami's elemental advantage, Yami would have lost without help. :notrust

    Of course.
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2018
  23. MysticBlade

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    Now you'r being straight ignorant.

    Licht stated he didn't beat him the legit way. He told yami he planne earnestly.

    meticulous
    mɪˈtɪkjʊləs/
    adjective
    1. showing great attention to detail; very careful and precise.
    He had him fall into a trap.
    TRAP.
    TRAP
    TRAP

    In chapter 36 Julius couldn't believe the state Fuegoreon was in and said that his power would be a hinderence to their plan. That's exactly it.

    Licht planned and made him fall into a trap. He couldn't win the legit way dude.


    Again it was stated that there might be uncertainty of who's stronger between him and his sister. And his sister is destroying liar who's stated stronger than licht himself.

    Licht is going to do something tricky to fight Julius. This fight isnt going to set any tones or records bruh
     
  24. Tayimus

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    Aaand bookmarked.
     
  25. MysticBlade

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    In one of his interviews he stated.

    "in the main part, there will be a turning point for big fights in the future".

    He's basically saying a power creep is going to happen based on this turning point in the main story.

    What that turning point is though is the question. It could be licht VS Julius.

    The logic defying fate nonsense he was talking about and trying to figure out if Julius is human based on the amount of power he possess. Same with liar trying to figure out the same with leona.

    Licht stated from now on he's going to deal with people like this with the power of the stones.

    The turning point could probably be the stones usage that power spikes the way fights take place later on.
     
  26. THEALMIGHTYGUY

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    Juliues vs licht would make sense. Licht un did his seal which, when asta broke, made yami and the other captains shit themsevles and took the combined power of liar, fana and vetto to seal.
     
  27. Samael

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    Ehhh.. I like this. It'll show true growth, unlike naruto and dbz others seem to progress as the main characters do too.

    It'll also show that a grind for power is indeed there unlike the other series's bs power ups won't tip the scale for them.

    They'll still have to work for it.
     
  28. FrozenFeathers

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    Wait till Demon King comes back.
     
  29. MysticBlade

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    Though when we're talking power inflation.

    Let's compare series.

    Naruto at 145 chapters. No where close to anything in the first 50 chapters of BC.

    Bleach at 145 chapters. No where close to the first 50 chapters of BC.

    One piece at 145 Chapters. NO WHERE CLOSE to the first 50 chapters of BC.

    Toriko at 145 chapters. No where close to 145 chapters of BC.

    Dragon ball at 145 chapters. No where close to the first 50 chapters of BC.


    The only one out of these series that can match BC in DC is toriko thanks to zebra during the honey prison arc. And we know toriko as a series that inflation power to God knows where.

    Dragan ball doesn't even register at 145.

    If super wasn't a thing. Toriko would be teabagin the life out of dragon ball z.

    BC has insane hax, speed and Destructive output that far surpasses the following series in the first 145 chapters. Even toriko is a joke.


    I honestly don't see how people don't see it.


    A character like yami even at chapter 50 can solo all five of those series at 145 chapters with all of them combining efforts.

    Do you see it now :drake
     
  30. Tayimus

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    Ah, I finally found the instance where someone told me a whole bunch of hooey and passed it off as fact. @MysticBlade, care to amend your statements about Fana?
     
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