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EMS Madara vs Pain Arc Konoha

Discussion in 'Naruto Battledome' started by X III, Mar 14, 2019 at 1:21 AM.

  1. kokodeshide The One Who Will Cast New Light

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    What stops madara from getting overwhelmed? What stops Kamui from warping Kyuubis Head away?

    Madaras swings are impressive, but not village wiping. There is simply too much to deal with all at one time. If Kyuubi got pushed out by like 100 randomly assembled shinobi, how is Madara not getting fucked up? And when Naruto arrives, what prevents Ma And Pa from frog songing them, He doesn't even know what that shit is. If the akimichi are just straight up dying left and right, why would they not just start popping red pills and going at him. I think people severely underestimate the power of numbers. there are tens of each clan member, if not more. 50 hyuuga using empty palm on a big ass target. Madara does not have 360 vision. If any Aburame comes up to him and tags him with those giant parasitic beetles, a fat ass section of his Susano is gone. Their basic bugs alone tear Susano apart. Kakashi alone fucks up Kyuubi with Kamui, He won't even know whats coming. At that point kakashi could Kamui large hypersonic explosions, Kyuubis head is going bye bye.

    Now that Kyuubi is restricted as per the OP, This is even more of a rape. Madara gets drained by the Aburame, while the Nara hold his PS in place. The Hyuuga and Akimichi knock his ass off balance. Naruto is called back and Kakashi tells him to get back to training, nothing but a minor disturbance. Madara can't avoid Bugs and Shadow possession while also killing Akimichi and dodging Hyuuga attacks. not to mention everything else in the 5k-15k strong shinobi village.
     
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  2. Hussain Well-Known Member

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    a much stronger Asspulldara got defeated by Zetsu. Let's not forget that. :ufdup
    not to mention, Lee cut him in half as well and he only survived because of being an ET. :Mshad
     
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  3. ~Kakashi~ Well-Known Member

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    But neither Lee or Zetsu are in the village, so Madara solos :Mshad
     
  4. MaruUchiha The Fourth Six Paths

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    I agree.. I think Madara is getting overrated here
     
  5. Grinningfox Well-Known Member

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    You literally always think he’s overrated
     
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  6. kokodeshide The One Who Will Cast New Light

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    Do you really think He could take out a force of thousands with just his PS? This force includes all of the secret clans, most with counters or threats to his PS? Top it off with SM Naruto arriving with Ma and Pa able to frog song the guy?

    This isn't JUST overrating him, this is borderline wank. Pain had a specific reason he was able to do what he did, 7 individuals splitting up, that divided Konohas forces. Madara doesn't have that same luxury.
     
  7. ~Kakashi~ Well-Known Member

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    lol There comes a point when only certain people are relevant.

    Pain didn't dominate the village because there were 7 of them. The only top tier threat among those 7 is Deva, and Kakashi was fighting him and Asura. The rest of the village got fucked by 1 solid tier(Animal) and a bunch of nobodies(the rest of the paths+Konan), and there wasn't jack shit that the Akimichi, Yamanaka, Nara, Sarutobi, Aburame or any other clan could do about it, cause they're fodder at this scale.

    Then you take Madara, who can destroy mountains with a single swipe of a PS blade, who is tiers above Pain in strength, and you've got a recipe for disaster.

    Gai in the 8th Gate is the only thing Konoha has at this point in the series that can stop EMS Madara and he's not here.

    Just look at Konoha vs Kurama. If not for Enma pushing Kurama out of the village, they're fucked. All those other clans weren't doing jack shit to Kurama, it required the two kage levels in the village to be able to save it from complete destruction, and Hiruzen was only temporarily able to hold it off, cause if Minato doesn't show up, then it's game over.
     
  8. Grinningfox Well-Known Member

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    “Just his PS”

    That’s your first problem

    Perfect Susanoo is comparable to Kurama and we all know what Kurama can do to a village . Also none of the clans have anything to stop the shockwave

    Even if you don’t buy that we’ve seen what the CASUAL output of PS can accomplish, let alone a Madara that’s pressured to the degree you’re proposing.


    We also saw a casual BLIND revived Madara blitz a superior SM Naruto. So while I agree SM Naruto is extremely dangerous , he isn’t winning against a stamina monster like Madara.

    Deva would’ve ended the village regardless of who was near once CST came out.
     
  9. Hardcore Well-Known Member

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    given the time he needed to kamui Kyuubi, he'd be getting a TBB to the face way before that and he'd get wiped along with Konoha
     
  10. dergeist Well-Known Member

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    Damn it, why isn't Hiashi in the village when it needs him most:angry
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2019 at 3:32 PM
  11. kokodeshide The One Who Will Cast New Light

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    The Aburame are extremely relevant when fighting a giant chakra mass.

    Yes, yes he did. If deva fought the entire village at once, he would have to CST to survive. Thats something Madara does not have not does he have anything close to it. The fact they they were split up causing distractions was pains PLAN in the first place.

    The Nara were able to restrict the fuckin Juubi, PS is beating that? A Yamanaka+Hyuuga snipe takes Madara over, even for a moment. That gives plenty of time for people to pour on the assault. Specifically Hyuuga and Aburame which easily take down Susano Just like Mokuryu did. Kamui factors in as well. And madara is no mountain buster, he is a mountain cutter, even then, it's a straight line of damage. The shockwave didn't even harm the 5 kage. Anyone slightly to the left or right of the attack lives to fight on.

    Frog song ends the battle easy peasy.
    Kyuubi is a WHOLE different beast. Madara has no attacks on par with a TBB. and he considers himself equal to the bijuu with PS. Surely not Kurama so the lesser bijuu, is a lesser bijuu canonically soloing a village? No. So how could Madara? Is Kyuubi without a TBB soloing even 1/10th of the village, canonically, NO. So how is madara doing it?
     
  12. Omote Well-Known Member

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    :hestonpls

    I've never seen people try to pretend fodder is relevant at this level

    All these Jounin level noobs get blitzed
     
  13. kokodeshide The One Who Will Cast New Light

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    PS is comparable to Kurama, not really but lets say it is. Kurama has TBB, Madara has no attacks that are even 1 percent as destructive.

    And look at what Kurama did to the village? Kurama got pushed out of the village by a small scattered group of randomly assembled shinobi with an old Hiruzen.
    The shockwave is a thin line of damage. anyone to the left or right by just a few feet is just fine. The point is can Madara cut down thousands of ninja at the exact same time as countering thousands of attacks, no. not even close. No one could do that. Even A3 who was known as the only man who could go toe to toe with a Bijuu couldnt do that. and he wasnt facing chakra sucking Aburame, or Hiashi, or Kamui.

    Yes, but that was Hashiboob Madara. My point is, Ma and Pa specifically.

    And yes, Deva would do that, but he is also the only ninja capable of doing that.
    What time? Kakashi warped a whole massive explosion in well under a second. Kyuubis head is gone. And that is also assuming Kyuubi is for some reason looking right at Kakashi.

    Either way, OP updated his post to say Kyuubi is restricted.
     
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  14. kokodeshide The One Who Will Cast New Light

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    Thousands of ninja get blitzed at once? Huh?
     
  15. Kamalu Well-Known Member

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    There is no such thing as lesser bijuu. @kokodeshide we see their attacks vaporize mountains while madara's fragment.

    As for all of you saying madara can solo an ENTIRE village, you'd think if kishimoto intended that, he would have madara attacking stone village instead of threatening and getting into a fight with ohnoki and mu.

    Madara isn't taking on the five great nations and winning singlehandedly with just EMS. He needs a plan and the ability to be in multiple places at once as well as a way to heal, like pain or Edo madara.
     
  16. Grinningfox Well-Known Member

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    Regardless the amount of damage it can casually drop will be enough.

    That “old” Hiruzen would’ve been enough to kill Orochimaru per his own admission so it’s not like he’s weak and he obviously he carried the lion share of the load vs Kurama. Also that push didn’t do jackshit and you know it.

    That “thin “ line casually cut the top off of mountains in one go. Multiple slashed end this conflict.

    Hashi boob Madara isn’t a substantially above EMS madara if at all .

    A3 isn’t Madara nor does he have the DC and AOE to match PS. I don’t know why you brought him up frankly

    No Deva is not
     
  17. Omote Well-Known Member

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    Does them being in a group somehow increase their reactions? Huh? Huh? Huh? Huh? Huh? Huh? Huh?

    :jesuschrist

    Fodder doesn't make a damn difference in battles like this, we've seen this with Pein himself who was bodying the whole village with Deva barely even trying and all the other paths being significantly weaker than them.

    None of these fodder can breach his ribcage, he can blitz them thousands of times over, he has AoE Katon that they can't overpower, has Genjutsu GG, and has sensory so none of them can actually get the drop on them.

    How the fuck is this gonna end in anything but a slaughter? :noah
     
  18. kokodeshide The One Who Will Cast New Light

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    I don't know about that, when Kurama at 50 can fuck up the rest, I'd say the others are lesser. Or the fact that it straight up says Kyuubi has the most chakra. Or the fact that Konoha gave 2 bijuu to some villages and kept only Kyuubi and that was considered fair lol.

    Madara never fragmented a mountain IIRCc, he only ever cut them in half. Different kind of feat.
     
  19. kokodeshide The One Who Will Cast New Light

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    Oh joy, must be why ninja in the war were reacting to him left and right. Must also be why he was forced to use susano.

    Nothing breaks his ribcage? Kamui, Butterfly punch, Hiashis Juubi tail slapping empty palm. Tsunades Kicks, Aburames absorbing it.

    No one can counter his Katon? And akimichi could jump in the way and sacrifice their life to block the attack.

    You have a series non understanding of logic if you think thousands of people don't beat one guy when his stated "Equal" was beaten by Konoha already, with minimal damage by a handfull of shinobi. Before you bring up TBB bs, Madara has nothing TBB level so that is irrelevant. How could his more destructive counterpart not beat Konoha and somehow he could? The Nara lock his PS in place and the Aburame drain it dry, lather rinse repeat. Kamui or Naruto isnt even needed. The secret technique clans+hyuuga absolutely solo.
     
  20. kokodeshide The One Who Will Cast New Light

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    His DC is no where near konoha level. Even Hashiramas VotE SS attack isnt Konoha level.
    Of course, but kyuubi is also FAR more durable than PS. And If they Push Madara out of Konoha, They can go Ham and spam jutsu.

    Do me a favor. Draw a big circle on a piece of printer paper. Now, Pick and point and mark a dot. From that dot draw straight lines and count how many until the circle is filled in. Ill read your message tmr cause that will take you quite a long time.

    I disagree. Hashirama and Madara are nearly equal in CQC. Edo hashirama is near prime. But this Madara was significantly stronger than Edo hashiboob madara.
    He has a move to cleave all the tails off gyuuki in 1 swipe. And he can do it low to the ground, something Madara cannot do with PS.
    What attack does any character barring Kyuubi and Juubi + their Jins have on a CST? Deidaras Suicide bomb is the only other attack to come close.
     
  21. Kamalu Well-Known Member

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    50% kurama only has lesser stamina than 100% kurama nothing else. That same fifty percent kurama had a perfect jinchuuriki while the others didn't, allowing him to focus his power better. That same kurama had a jinchuuriki with free will, while the others had jinchuuriki controlled by one man, collectively lessening focus and shit.

    By kisame, who also claimed the gedo mazo would be overwhelmed by kurama yet gedo mazo contains chakra that GREATLY exceeds kurama as stated by the bijuu. Gyuuki and shukaku also openly disagree with that notion.

    You do realise the villages bought the bijuu? You also realise that hashirama never said"we're keeping the kyuubi for ourselves lol."

    The fact the cloud could afford two means nothing, in fact it helps my case more. Those two bijuu are 2 tails and eight tails. What you imply is that the eight tails and two tails both combined are equal to another bijuu that was bought alone, which is asinine.

    Doesn't really matter. You yourself say they are 200 megatons, that's mountain level. Bijuu dama are still 15 times more powerful though.
     
  22. kokodeshide The One Who Will Cast New Light

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    the last part of your statement is pure speculation.

    And Gyuuki had a perfect Jinchuriki, why wasnt he like Kurama?

    I believe Kyuubi also says he has the most chakra and demonstrates that he does even. Kisames statement is also backed up by zetsus statement saying the same thing to Madara right before they seal them again.

    Shukaku and Gyuuki only disagree with the notion that Tails=Power. Not that Kyuubi is the strongest. Gyuuki even comments on Kuramas crazy power.

    The Bijuu were split up to balance power. Not because the cloud had more money.

    Fair point. I agree, bijuudama are FAR above that, hence why i disagree with the idea that somehow Madara is TBB level despite never showing that.
     
  23. Grinningfox Well-Known Member

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    He doesn’t need to obliterate the village just everyone in it, which he can do.

    1) who in the village has will be able to push a PS that’s actively resisting?

    2) even if they do that does nothing except give him more room to spam slashes

    Don’t be condescending Koko . We’ve had a pleasant relationship thus far let’s keep it that way.

    There can’t be a huge disparity in speed between EMS Madara and his Hashi boob variant and regardless Hashi boob blitzed a superior SM Naruto anyway so it doesn’t matter

    Again A3 isn’t comparable to a PS
     
  24. Kamalu Well-Known Member

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    Maybe. But it's worth noting.

    Because he didn't overpower the TBB that was never fired at him. As for taijutsu, bee isn't perfect or ethereal like kurama, he was injured but he still beat some of his brethren.

    He only says he's the strongest and two bijuu disagree.

    Nope. If I recall correctly. Post the scan.

    I'm willing to go with the argument that kurama is the strongest and it has nothing to do with tail number. He has to have something other than emotion sensing to compete with the other bijuu's special abilities.

    That would imply konoha was the weakest village since it kept the strongest bijuu. It would also imply gyuuki and matatabi were half as strong as the other bijuu.

    It ultimately was more politics and finance than balance. Suna already had shukaku(the supposed weakest bijuu) but rather than bid for the strongest bijuu and risk war, they asked for fertile land and 30% of what everyone paid and risked war.

    I know right.
     
  25. Kamalu Well-Known Member

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    He can do it if everyone just stands there instead of evacuating.

    Hashi. His rotations slapped away the juubi's tail. Juubi's fist is bigger than tailed beasts which susanoo is compared to, and juubi tail is bigger.

    Nara clan can hold him in place. PS is not stronger than juubi.

    Hashi boob madara is far better than EMS madara as stated by kabuto and that hashiboob madara was in SM if I recall correctly.

    A3 fought a bijuu to exhaustion and is stronger than his bijuu level son. PS is compared to a bijuu. A3 is =< PS.
     
  26. Arles Celes The Psychologist

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    So EMS Madara is weaker than Pain? :hm
     
  27. kokodeshide The One Who Will Cast New Light

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    Being ethereal was a negative, not a positive.

    He didnt do it like Kurama did, and he also ways kurama is crazy strong as he is watching him fuck shit up.

    No, he says that the 8 tails is 2nd most powerful after him going off tails to which Gyuuki disagrees with, but no one disputes kurama is the strongest Bijuu. Hagoromo even makes him Boss of the meeting place.

    Well, Its a bit of a retcon but he says they have to put them in the mazo in order. Why? we dont know. But it confirms Kisames statement.

    My personal theory:
    Spoiler:
    Since Shukaku had to be absorbed alone, to me he has the second biggest chakra. 2,3,4 were taken together so they are similar in power to just shukaku, 5,6,7 were taken in together so they are similar in power. Gyuuki was taken in alone so he is similar in power to just shukaku, and onlly after that can Kyuubi be taken as the Mazo couldnt take the sudden mass of chakra instantly. Just my 2 cents.

    tail numbers doesn't mean shit. The thing i think he has over the other bijuu abilities is the IMMENSE amount of chakra he has.
    No, it would imply that he wants to keep Konoha the strongest. OR, it implies he thinks only konoha could handle kyuubi.
    Politics on sunas part yes, but the bijuu are repeatedly reffered to as power balancers.
     
  28. kokodeshide The One Who Will Cast New Light

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    Akimichi, Hyuuga, several attacks of other ninja.
    And also open him up to other attacks.
    I didn't mean to be condescending, I sincerely apologize if it came off that way. That was not my intention.

    But my point is still accurate, it would take thousands of slashes to wipe konoha clean
    Blitzd him and did no damage to him or SAI. Naruto also was caught off guard and still blocked.

    You are right, but at the same time he is better in a way.

    No? But Madara is 1 guy that a whole village can focus on instead of more than 10 different targets to deal with.
     
  29. Sage light Well-Known Member

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    Madara.

    Unless Kakashi Kamui's Snipes him tho I'd argue he's swift enough to avoid it.
     
  30. Kamalu Well-Known Member

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    @kokodeshide, you're the first person who I've seen who says that shukaku has the second highest amount of chakra among the beasts.
     
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