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Enel vs Rob Lucci

Discussion in 'One Piece Battledome' started by Corax, Jan 11, 2019.

  1. Muah HADE BARA BOGE PYA

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    enel no diff.

    He may or may not get blizted but Enel didnt have low durabilty. He took a rifle punch a mile long with a golden ball attached to it and was ok after it. also hid attacks can be lightning fast so theres a chance he blitzes Lucchi. with Coo it wont be hard to beat lucchi.
     
  2. Fel1x Friend of the Grummles

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    yaeh, I read it. still no diff for Enel
     
  3. GilDLax Well-Known Member

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    Characters don't always use their best speed. Does Luffy always use G2? No! Even post-TS he fought in Base several times. Enel is also a God complex character so he doe snot feel to go all-out vs Luffy at the start.

    BUT, whenever he DID utilizes his speed, Luffy was no match. As I said, Luffy never hit him thanks to speed. He hit him thanks to a bunch of other factors.


    But that has nothing to do with speed. Luffy is utterly 100% immune to Enel's biggest firepower for God's sake (no pun intended) and Luffy is a damage-soak freak so some spear stabs he sure as hell can withstand.


    Luffy really didn't. Like I said, Enel moved faster than Luffy can perceive TWICE. After that he kicked Luffy down with the golden ball attached and the next time they fought for real was when Luffy finally reached the Maxim and from then plot/character's personality ''malfunction'' kicked in hard. Enel suddenly stopped dodging and claimed to take on Luffy's attack thanks to his superior complex (Doflamingo had the same problem vs King Kong Gun. Despite the fact that he showed enough carefulness to dodge G2, G3 and even G4 before several times) and turned out Golden Rifle was not something he could tank. That's all really.


    If it's not his reaction speed how the hell does he perceive the surrounding and stop at where he wanted to, in this case from the beanstalk (is that what you call the thing? That giant botanical thing which Wiper and Zolo later cut/destroyed) to Angel island faraway?


    Luffy called Hyouzou strong, duh?

    And again, of course Enel couldn't destroy Luffy because:
    1. Luffy is immune to his Logia. Completely! (something Lucci does not have)
    2. Luffy is a tank vs Enel's physical attacks(This Lucci has. I'm not denying Lucci is superior to Enel if they engage close combat but that would not be the case because Enel would just fry him since Lucci does not have no.1. What YellowCosmos said basically.)
    3.
    One Piece and shounen plot, duh. You think Oda would let Enel actually hurt the SHs permanently? If Enel had the magma fruit and Akainu had the lightning fruit, Enel would still fail to kill the SHs or Wiper or Shandora and Akainu would still be able to shit on Ace.


    Also, Enel took Golden Rifle and was still conscious and flew his Maxim up. Luffy never actually defeat Enel. Unless you told me the air Luffy blows in his arm in G3 can be as heavy as a fucking huge pure golden ball then Golden Rifle > G3 and Lucci lost consciousness for a sec vs the latter. Lucci's Rokuogan is also at best comparable to Reject Dial, which Enel can just simply revive from.


    Current is another story but ELLucci is utter fodder to Enel.


    How is Nami comparable to Enel? That's like saying Red Hawk is comparable to Ace's Mera...


    She one-shot Judge...O__o


    What fortitude? They are mostly one-shot. Unless you mean they should be dead I reckon remembering this is One Piece. Characters don't die unless it's really important for plot (namely WB and Ace)

    Wiper could stand up but it's the willpower shit of shounen. Oda put a flashback of his childhood with that ancestor pride thing between Enel's attacks.


    It's the chapter Enel moved from Maxim above the beanstalk to Angel Island chapter 294, page 8.


    You talk like that's something...
    Luffy could not even perceive Enel's speed, but he could perfectly perceive Soru to copy it. And also it's not like Luffy can copy Enel anw cause he does not have Goro fruit so it's non-point...

    Foxy isn't stronger than Enel. Arlong isn't stronger than Don Krieg. Hody or Caesar aren't stronger than Akainu. And hell, Lucci is not stronger than Enel. This debate is only a thing since you give him rubber glove/CoA. The canon ELLucci is nothing to Enel. Touch Enel and he got fried like a bug

    And no, every aspect? Nothing in this manga ever proves that. As my debate vs Imagine, we know they get stronger per Zolo's words, but never by how much or which stat they improve on.

    It's nonsense to think every stat just gets improved by default, even shit that does not get used or focused on. If you go to gym and work on your abs, you come out a fitter man but you don't get to say your triceps also improved the same way if you didn't work it LOL.

    Take Luffy vs Katakuri. His CoO improved a lot cause he was forced to work on it. His Coa has no business being improved. It got shit on in G2 vs BlockMochi, it stalemated StrengthMochi in G3 and in G4 Luffy overpowered Katakuri completely whenever they punched head-on. Even if it did improve by virtue of being used, the increase is extremely minimal.

    Or take Zolo vs Daz Bonez. The Zolo after beating Daz Bonez were much stronger, faster, more durable, more endurable etc. than the one before how? All I saw is Zolo had always been able to hit Daz Bonez, he simply acquired a new technique Breath of All Things to cut steel.


    Well, of course he isn't. He did nothing in the Blue Sea to be issued bounty LOL O__o Your logic is like Luffy wasn't able to beat the shit out of that bandit with 8.5mil bounty just because he had not done anything yet...

    Also the question is about the Enel that fought Luffy that they knew at the time, not a hypothetical Enel that improves his power over time.

    Also Viz's translation is different
    "I see. Interesting question. The reward would probably go over 500 millions, considering how troublesome Enel is. Luffy lucked out because he is rubber''

    Nope, not the same logic at all.

    Oda specifically said ''considering how troublesome Enel is''. Which means the whole 500mil is his credit alone. Not by having Vinsmokes father or by having gagforce like Usopp LOL

    On the other hand, Luffy beat Lucci, stirred up literally unprecedented trouble at EL, challenging WG and he was only 300mil.


    Croc got 81mil only, Caribou is 210mil and Caesar is 300mil. Caesar even had scientific knowledge that can be dangerous and he is durable enough to take some Hardening attacks of post-TSLuffy. So you're saying CoO alone is worth at least 200mil? I wonder why Luffy didn't get more than 100mil increase from his pre-TS 400mil when he has both CoO, CoA and CoC and just beat another Shichibukai in DD who people here think would fodderize ELLucci with rubber gloves...

    Also, Enel has to be top tier to beat ELLucci with rubber gloves? is it just me or you're arguing things no one said...


    1. He only said it's one of the reason he's so strong. And he can hit Luffy besides using lightning. That's what he means. But that does not matter because vs Lucci he isn't ''robbed off'' his lightning power. Or now we have full rubber clothes?

    2. Something Lucci wouldn't capitalize on cause his best attack Rokuogan is so far at best said to be on the same level as Reject Dial which Enel revived from quite easily.

    3. He's a guy who never know rubber. Give him a break he didn't think immediately Luffy could bounce it off the wall...any other times he blocked and fought Luffy just fine. Poor close combat skill?

    4. Just like how MFLuffy dodged Kizaru's laser or intercepted Sengoku's execution punch even though his power level at the time had no business hanging with these guys.


    Same as no.4 above. On other occasions, he absolutely destroyed Sanji, dodged Zolo and ridiculed him, stomped Wiper etc. Unless you say Nami was already better than those two at the time...
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2019
  4. Ayy lmao Well-Known Member

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    Lucci has rubber.
    The difference in speed, according to you, is the same, if not bigger, than the speed difference between Boa's sister's / Blueno and G2 Luffy, since base form LUffy = Blueno+ Boa sisters. Compare the difference between Luffy blitzing the Boa sisters/ Blueno , and making them unable to even hit or dodge him once( despite Boa's sisters having coO), with how Luffy was able to tag, dodge and block Enel's trident several times.

    Strawman.

    He can't withstand a stab to any of his vital body parts, not sure why you are pretending otherwise. and Enel barely injured him. Don Krieg' spear and Arlong's teeth did a better job injuring Luffy, than the person who's supposedly a shitton faster than him+ has coO.

    Still not his attacking speed. Do post the scan of him blitzing luffy though, i want to see it.

    Why would Enel call an attack dozens of times slower than him fast, unless it wasn't? Is this something he regularly does?

    The same way jet-pilots can perceive hypersonic missiles from miles away, and evade it. His reaction speed doens't need to be anywhere his movement speed, if he is stopping after moving kilometers of distance.

    He was strong enough to not get knocked out or even injured by G2 Luffy, Luffy cant read his power level, and never attempted to attack him again, so all he had to gauge his strength by was that one punch.

    Still irrelevant to my argument

    Luffy's blunt force immunity doesnt play any factor into heat attacks or stabbing attacks, and yet Enel was unable to injure him, despite using those.

    I never said a damn thing about Enel causing permanent damage to Luffy, another strawman. How about you read the post you are quoting and responding to? Where did I mention or imply anything about "kill" or "permanently injure"?

    I said Enel was unable to defeat Luffy or seriously injure him, in other words, cause him to bleed a lot, severely damage him or knock him out. Which has already happened to Luffy , and the other strawhats, on several occasions. Enel knocked out Usopp, Sanji and Zoro, defeating them. Not to mention, Usopp, Sanji, Zoro and Luffy have all been seriously injured AND defeated, prior to Skypiea, and after Skypiea. So your "lul shounen lugic" argument is invalid.

    Maxim doesn't need Enel to be conscious to fly, he doesn't even need to be on the ship. He explained how it works after Sanji tried to destroy its flying mechanism. You have no evidence Enel was conscious after getting hit by Golden Rifle.

    Is Luffy's G4 arm heavier than his G3 arm? Nope. Guess G3 is stronger than G4? Not to mention, his arm being heavier with GOlden rifle, wouldn't make it stronger than G3, in fact, the opposite would be the case. The heavier something is, the slower you can move it, meaning the slower the striking speed, thus the weaker the punch is.

    Enel was taking damage from all of base form Luffy's, the same attacks that Lucci tanked. Heck, Blueno did a better job taking base Luffy's attacks. Enel's durability is nowhere near Lucci's. And how exactly is Rokugan< Reject dial?
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2019
  5. Phantom Thief Well-Known Member

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    Lucci. Probably on the higher end of low-diff/lower end of mid-diff.
     
  6. Acnologia Dragon King

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    A Shigan oneshots Enel

    His Dura is beyond trash
     
  7. Ayy lmao Well-Known Member

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    Lucci blitzes Enel before he can use any of his lightning attacks, the same way G2 Luffy blitzed Blueno. Because his reaction speed is that poor, compared to his. Enel wont get the chance to do anything.
     
  8. Ayy lmao Well-Known Member

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    Already did, how about you actually read what i post?

    Already mentioned this, they can predict his movement but they can't keep up. AKA, they are getting blitzed.

    His CoO is not better than theirs, your baseless assumptions is irrelevant. His range is better, that's it. He can read Lucci's movement all he wants, doesn't matter when he is too slow to do anything, like Boa's sisters.

    So now you are repeating yourself by saying Enel's reaction speed is the same as his traveling speed. Which I have already explained why it isn't the case. Go ahead and prove that his reaction speed is the same as his traveling speed. I'll be waiting. Then hopefully you can explain why he relies on coO to dodge Luffy's attacks, when his reaction speed is, according to you, already >>>>> Luffy's.


    Chapter 282 , page 12. Enel, who's so much faster than Luffy+ is using coO, decides not to dodge or block Luffys Gomu Gomu no Axe attack, because he can't.

    you are saying Enel's reaction speed is >>Lucci who is >>> skypiea Luffy, yet you are also saying Enel can't block or dodge any of base Luffy's attack without using CoO? Hopefully you understand why that doesn't make any sense.

    I never said Enel has been blitzed, perhaps you should read my damn posts? I invite you to link a post of mine where I said or implied Enel was blitzed. Enel was unable to dodge Luffy's attack, on 4 occasions, despite him using coO on 2 of those occasions. Enel was unable to hit Luffy even once, when his coO didn't work on him. There is no evidence Enel is faster than Lucci. Travel speed or reaction speed. Heck, prove to me that Enel's travel or attacking speed is greater than skypiea's Luffy's.speed.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2019
  9. g4snake108 Well-Known Member

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    No he isn't. That is a serious level of lie there. Lucci is blitzing the hell out of enel,COO or not.
    For reference purposes,

    Skypeia luffy<=enel<= base luffy at long ring/water 7<<<luffy g2>=lucci EL.

    Add in blueno and nami somewhere in between for the "lightning speed" and you'll see that lucci laughs off enel's speed in lightning logia mode too.(Kalifa about 8 times weaker/slower that base lucci reacted to nami's lightning attack and put up a shield to prevent being knocked out the first time).

    That other factor being Enel's speed was not so much better than skypeia luffy that he could properly dodge attacks.
     
  10. Imagine

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    Pacifista lasers aren't Kizaru's lasers. They are just modeled after his.
     
  11. Imagine

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    They're light manufactured by scientists to simulate Kizaru's. Kizaru's speed has been explicitly stated in databooks and the manga.

    Strawman.
     
  12. Imagine

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    That argument wouldn't even help you as Enel doesn't move at the speed of lightning until he actually travels as lightning. His reactions and attacking speed aren't his elemental travel speed.

    Luffy clearly demonstrated that by being able to land a hand on him.
     
  13. Ayy lmao Well-Known Member

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    from his view. That's a mistranslation. According to the original japanese version, the viz translation, the japanese anime dub and even the English dub, Luffy is talking about Enel's mantra. Take a look a the OFFICIAL viz translation .



    Because Luffy was attacking him from a much closer distance to him in that instance?? Are you blind?

    I never said he wasnt aware or that he didnt react, seriously, fuck off with the strawman arguments already and LEARN READING COMPREHENSION. He was aware the same way Boa's sisters were aware of G2 Luffy's attack, but TOO SLOW TO DODGE.

    Some serious reaching here, did you remember to stretch? The more simple and logical explanation is that he couldnt dodge, cuz he wasnt fast enough. I could make up some bullshit baseless explanation for why Luffy didnt dodge Enel's trident in the 2 instances he was hit, but I wont cuz thats not how Occam's razor works. Look that up.


    Enel was not too hurt to dodge his attack in chapter 280, remember he dodged his attacks 2 times before he got hit by Giant Axe? Which you already pointed out several times?


    Perhaps you should read your own post , instead of asking stupid questions? I quoted the part where you said that. Stop with the dishonesty, you DID say that I said that Enel was blitzed, which I never did. Read your fucking post.

    And for the last fucking time, I never said Enel couldn't react to Luffy's attack. I never argued he wasn't reacting to those attacks, but that he was too slow to dodge learn to fucking read.


    Luffy says he dodged him because aka using mantra. Luffy never once comments on Enel's speed being superior to his. Again, read the official translation instead of shitty incorrect fansubs.

    Are you blind? Can you not see the heavy gold on Luffy's arm slowing him down?

    Prove it or concede. Getting tired of your baseless nonsense, and you dancing around the fact Enel couldnt hit Luffy once without using mantra and he couldnt dodge Luffy once without using mantra, despite being in lightning form, and supposedly a shitton faster than Luffy. What makes you think Enel can hit Lucci who is dozens of times faster than skypiea Luffy, when he cant hit Luffy once without using mantra?
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2019
  14. Imagine

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    Mine isn't an assumption. Pacifista and their lasers have never moved as fast as Kizaru nor has it ever been stated that they can. The whole point of Kizaru showing up in SA and dancing around the SHs and Supernova was to show his dominance. The SHs/SN didn't have that sort of problems with the Pacifista the same way they did Kizaru.

    Their lasers are blatantly slower and weaker.

    And again, even if they were actually the speed of light and you try to correlate that to Enel's speed to that then all that means is that G2 Luffy is still faster than whatever the yield of the Pacistia lasers are meaning Enel's still getting blitzed.
     
  15. g4snake108 Well-Known Member

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    Umm..so you ask us to justify what is shown in the manga while you get to throw your own assumptions around as if they are fact? Like ,why should we even bother to reply to what you think may be the case based on your interpretation of it ?

    The vs threads are discussed and based off of manga/SBS evidence. They show kalifa reacting to nami's lightning which seems in line because a superhuman is like plvl 10 IIRC and she is 700 and there doesn't seem to be PIS/CIs involved. You want to counter that, bring feats of the characters into arguments and not "fodder reacted to BM,so this is also PIS"
     
  16. Avian95 Active Member

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    Hello everyone.

    I’m going with Enel for this fight. People need to remember that being able to touch Enel wasn’t the only thing that let Luffy win. It was also the fact that he was immune to Enel’s devastating lightning attacks. The same lightning attacks that completely obliterated practically everyone in that arc, including Zoro and Wiper (who was implied to be equal to Luffy at the time). So just having rubber gloves isn’t going to help much when you’ve got a constant barrage of long-ranged lightning attacks engulfing your entire body.

    Also, you can’t just say that Lucci blitzes him if you’re going to use the Luffy vs Enel fight as a frame of reference. For a good portion of that fight, Luffy couldn’t land most of his attacks thanks to Enel’s CoO and teleports. The only times Luffy landed critical blows was 1) at the beginning when Enel was too busy shitting his pants at the sight of Luffy being immune and 2) toward the end when Luffy found a way around CoO with his wall trick. In both of those cases, speed wasn’t really a factor. He did manage to get a lucky Axe in, but again, that wasn’t because of speed either.
     
  17. Mr. Good vibes ZZZZZ

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    It's 2019 and cats still wanking Enel.:confusedjr

    I get that he had a potential top tier fruit and CoO to boot, but that isn't cutting it against someone who much faster than you. Enel did have some impressively poweful moves, but Lucci durability>>> Skypeia Zoro, Wyper, Sanji so he is going to be able to take a couple of Enels attacks Vergo style.
     
  18. Ayy lmao Well-Known Member

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    The bolded is wrong, the only reason Luffy couldn't hit Enel was solely due to his CoO. His speed had nothing to do with it, this was never implied or shown. Luffy never at any point even implies Enel is faster than him, neither does Enel. Stop with the headcanon already.

    If Enel's speed is so great as you are saying, how come Enel couldn't hit Luffy EVEN A SINGLE TIME without relying on CoO? Neither could he teleport away from his attack with his oh-so amazing speed, without using CoO.

    What was it then, Enel was using CoO, so how did he manage to hit him, without being faster than him? There is no luck involved, when you can predict your enemy's movement. How did Luffy hit him?

    And funny how you conveniently ignore the time Luffy hit Enel with Golden Rifle, right before Enel said to himself " fast!", AND was using CoO. You also ignored the first time he hit hit him with his regular Rifle.
     
  19. g4snake108 Well-Known Member

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    We can, because lucci does blitz enel.
     
  20. Vivo Diez Well-Known Member

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    Base Luffy landed hits on Enel and out-sped him several times, despite the latter being able to use mantra.

    Luffy needed G2 to just keep up with Lucci.

    Enel is going to get completely outclassed in terms of speed.
     
  21. DiscoZoro20 Ōka Shichibukai

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    What about them is different though? To me they look like the same thing.
     
  22. TheWiggian #AdmiralsIncorporated

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    Wow this debate is still going? :catskully
     
  23. Avian95 Active Member

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    Just being able to predict someone’s movements isn’t enough to attack or dodge them. You still need to be capable of carrying out said actions through physical and/or special means.

    He did. Enel landed 3 lightning attacks on Luffy before he started using Mantra. The attacks may have did zero damage to Luffy’s rubber body (a luxury that Lucci won’t have) but he still landed them.

    Because Luffy was holding him in place mid-air. Enel couldn’t have dodged that Axe even if he saw it coming a mile away. And before you say it, no, Enel couldn’t teleport mid-air because Goro Goro no Mi requires him to use a physical object/surface as a medium.

    I didn’t ignore the Rifle. I specifically said “2) toward the end when Luffy found a way around CoO with his wall trick” which lead to a snowball of Gomu Gomu no mi attacks. Luffy found a way past Mantra and landed Octopus Fireworks. Then Luffy continued with a Bazooka while Enel was still recovering from Fireworks. Then Luffy followed-up with Rifle while Enel was still recovering from Bazooka. Enel saw the Rifle coming but couldn’t even move his body in time since he was pummeled so much beforehand.
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2019
  24. Ayy lmao Well-Known Member

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    Never said the opposite?

    Wrong, Enel's mantra is always active. by letting Luffy know that he can hear the screams of the skypieans, from another island. Remember, Enel's mantra allows him to hear every single voice in Skypiea.

    Proof?

    He was perfectly capable of teleporting in mid-air on other occasions, including in the same chapter. Perhaps reread the chapter? Lightning is perfectly capable of traveling in mid-air, how do you think lightning strikes happen? Are you for real right now? Stop with the headcanon already.

    His rifle + bazooka was not part of the wall trick. And you are still ignoring when he hit him his golden rifle. Also, when Luffy kicked him on the face, while Enel was in Amaru form.
     
  25. Avian95 Active Member

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    You implied that when you said Enel’s CoO was the only reason he was able to do anything against Luffy.

    The lightning attacks that he successfully hit Luffy with happened in chapter 279, before Mantra even came into play in the fight. Enel then activated Mantra at the start of chapter 280 (he literally says it out loud). If Mantra is always active like you claim, then it doesn’t make sense for him to outright announce that he’s activating it in chapter 280.

    Luffy is literally holding Enel in place mid-air as shown below:



    I’d like to see scans of him teleporting while being in mid-air.

    Yes they were. They were all part of the same combo. It was the Fireworks wall trick that allowed him to lead into Bazooka and then into Rifle before Enel could recover.
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2019
  26. Kobe █▄█▄█ █ █▀█

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    We haven't really seen Enel's battle prowess. His fight against Luffy is flawed because

    1. Luffy is the main character and had to win.
    2. It was a matchup Luffy was catered to win just based on DF.
    3. Enel had never met a person who was from Blue Seas. Hence, he had his God complex.

    Otherwise Enel fodderized all other characters in that arc who doesn't have an immunity against lightning.

    Lucci with rubber gloves is ok but that still doesn't make him an automatic win. Enel has a great range in his CoO, can easily move through inanimate objects and his usage of his trident seemed skillful. It would take one hit from him to make Lucci vulnerable which he should be able to considering the AOE of his attacks. I don't think Lucci at any transformation can take on Enel's Amaru.
     
  27. Astro Indubitable Moderator

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    @Exping I'm not going to go point by point writing dissertations to reconfirm Lucci > Enel (intangibility notwithstanding). Rather I will readdress this statement; Add on to the fact boots operate on progressive overload. In that next arcs Luffy (and his primary antagonist) are superior in every aspect to the previous. As it pertains to SH growth and something I think people undermine servery

    @bold; with respect to primary antagonist the conditions are (i) the conflict demanded Luffy's maximum effort (ii) the antagonist in question wasn't filler/joke battle. Its my mistake to assume this premise/condition would've been straightforward enough. Now since you want to argue semantics;

    • Foxy as an opponent was less visceral than Buggy. His fight constituted of a competition style encounter and trickery. At no single point was Luffy's absolute best demanded.
    • Except Arlong was; Gin was an outright stronger combatant. The same Gin only succeeded in downing a Sanji who'd allowed himself get beaten lest Zeff get shot. Luffy was superior to that Sanji. That Luffy went on to fight Arlong.
    • Akainu wasn't Luffy's primary antagonist in Marineford Arc. In-fact that isn't an arc that pertains to Luffy. Hell, Mihawk fought Luffy longer than all 3 Admirals combined.
    The basis is the SH grow stronger!! Thus, enabling future prolonged effort relative to past iterations. Especially in concentrated arcs with overarching elements. SHs aren't saving attribute points to level up stats for rank ups. ANY physical exertion contributes to sustained growth. This isn't a video game where SHs are saving up attributes and boosting whatever is close to rank up. All their base stats improve and whatever aspect was challenged gains multipliers. Its not static. We can see this based on Luffy's statement of when he invented Gears.

    What is nonsense is this sham of an example you attempted to pass of. The Straw Hats are fighting NOT performing isolation work outs. EVERY SINGLE facet of their being is tested. Movement/Mobility, Reaction, Strength, Maneuverability, Stamina, Endurance, Durability. I'll assume you've never participated in any martial art based sport. Have you ever TRAINED for Rugby? Soccer? Football? Athletics? I'm not tactics but actual DRILLS? Have you ever done any FULL COMPOUND body movement which is what FIGHTING is? LMAO at you. Look at the exercises which are designed to target the abs. Unless you are a fat bitch doing roller balls (which the SHs aren't). Chances are you will do Hanging, Press-Ups, Sit Up.

    You think Katakuri told Luffy 'I don't think you're below me' because he could ONLY see some seconds in the future? Luffy CoA gained nothing from fighting Cracker for 11 hours. His stamina experienced no improvements from constantly having to evolve. His physical strength wasn't being promoted? His endurance was being tested. Despite, the fact he went from arching every time struck. He didn't push himself speed wise to ensure he capitalized on the openings his future sight gave him? Oda HIGHLIGHTED observation since he was juxtaposing it against Kata, who we knew could see seconds to the future AND this was unprecedented. BUT HOW TF would Luffy get there if HE DIDN'T improve everything else? Cause even after hurting himself Kata showed he had a WHOLE lot in the tank. So don't use the Kata was getting weaker argument.



    • Zoro got his body shredded ON MULTIPLE occasions INCLUDING whilst SEVERELY DAMAGE by Daz Bones. >> Improves his durability / endurance / stamina
    • Zoro continues to fight and whilst SEVERELY blood drained and is DEMANDED to perform at a seemingly top level. >>> creates a handicap that test his speed, strength, reactions.
    • Zoro at his full strength cannot obtain a single success over Daz but is then forced to fight said level at a fraction of his strength. Said strength depleting by the minute.
    • What does this do for his future self? Do you know The Kenyans/Ethiopians who keep winning marathon races are Plain Nilotes but are trained in the mountain Highlands of Kenya/Ethopia? Basically as an attempt to artificially stimulate increased hemoglobin production. How is what Zoro experienced any different?
     
  28. Ayy lmao Well-Known Member

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    He never hit Luffy without CoO, everytime his CoO didnt work, Luffy dodged him or Enel was unable to dodge. Which would not make any sense, unless Luffy was faster than him, but not necessarily much faster.

    Again, you are wrong. Enel confirms he is using CoO, as shown in the screenshot. Did you forget Enel
    s mantra let him hear every voice on the island? He says this, just before he attacks Luffy, in chapter 279. Stop ignoring this already.

    Yes it does,
    Right after Enel realizes Luffy is immune to his attacks, Enel gets shocked , loses his calm, and tries to calm himself down. Mantra DOES NOT WORK unless you are calm, which Enel for very obvious reaons, was NOT.

    Not how burden of proof works, you were the one who first claimed Enel can't teleport in midair, so you need to prove it.

    He is holding his spear, not him.
     
  29. Avian95 Active Member

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    Enel used CoO for a brief moment to check on the citizens before the fight even started. That’s it. If Mantra is always active like you claim, why would he later announce that he’s using Mantra out loud if it was already on? If Mantra is always active like you claim, why didn’t he foresee Wiper grabbing onto him to use Reject in that earlier fight?

    First you say that Mantra is always active, now you’re saying that it actually wasn’t on here because he lost his cool. You can’t have it both ways dude.

    Yes Mantra users can lose their focus, but that’s not the case here because Enel wasn’t even using Mantra there in the first place. Also, look at what happens on the page right after that:



    Enel regains his composure and confidently says “Come! Physical attacks are useless against me. You will pass through me and fall!” If Enel’s Mantra is always active like you claim, then he should’ve known that he would get hit there but he didn’t.

    The scan below shows that Enel uses objects as mediums to transport himself. In addition, he’s standing on a surface everytime we see him teleport in that chapter. If you have scans that suggests otherwise, then show them to back up your “He was perfectly capable of teleporting in mid-air on other occasions, including in the same chapter” claim.



    ....What exactly is the difference in this context? You’re just nitpicking now. Are you going to say that “Zoro doesn’t hurt his opponents, his sword is what hurts them” next?
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2019
  30. Exping Well-Known Member

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    @Astro I'd put BB and his crew > Magellan but magellan still blitzed. I know Lucci is a stronger opponent than the past enemies luffy faced however Enel was stronger than Luffy by a fair margin. Luffy would have lost in the first second when Enel used his lighting he could not react. Enel lost due to his devil fruit not working and he had no trouble dodging luffy for quite a while. Luffy managed to finally land some hits when he stopped thinking. Lucci and the cp9 are not those type of fighters. They trained in the 6 martial arts and enel with his mantra can predict them, Enel did not lose due to speed feats, he was clearly the fastest one in skypeia by far and destructive except could not damage luffy.

    Of course if this is Current CP0 Lucci vs Skypeia Enel I would say this Lucci by hype would win
     
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