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Establishment - Sannin cannot react to Ay's and Kirabi's speed

Discussion in 'Naruto Battledome' started by Edogawa, Jun 14, 2019.

  1. Edogawa

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    There is a consensus amongst the Sannin fans that they can react to Ay's or Bee's speed, which I'm making this thread to crush this idea.

    1). Here is Tsunade stating she can't believe KCM Naruto can keep up with Ay's speed:



    2). When Ay states he's going to kill Naruto, Tsunade aims to step in only to fail because she is too slow:




    As indicated by the drawn motion line, she was attempting to move fast to save Naruto but couldn't make it in time because she was slow, and Bee had to step in because he was fast. The exclamation mark even shows she had no idea what happened, because everything was happening too fast.

    Given both Jiraiya and Orochimaru scale to her, and she has better CQC feats than both; in that same scenario in midst of battle Ay or Kirabi can blitz them easily.
     
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  2. Android

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    No they can't react to the Raikage's top speed but they can still beat him under neutral conditions.

    That being said, scaling Jiraiya or Orochimaru to Tsunade is dumb and makes no sense.
     
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  3. Maverick04

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    Ok Im going off topic here but can someone tell me who is the fastest Sannin? In terms of combat speed
     
  4. Santoryu

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    jiraiya
     
  5. Edogawa

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    Tsunade has the most quantifiable CQC feats amongst them, so maybe her.
     
  6. Shazam

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    Using this logic you just validated a panel that suggested Tsunade > V2 A4 because she reacted to an attack while everyone else (outside of Mei who blatantly said she couldn't react to) stood idly by against Madara.
     
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  7. Shazam

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  8. Godaime Tsunade

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    A is the fastest man in the world, to her knowledge. Being able to react to him does not in any way mean you need to be able to keep up with him.

    And here is where you’ve disproven your own argument - the motion lines indicating that Tsunade has started moving before Bee intercepted means that she was literally shown reacting to A’s attack.

    If she had no idea what was happening, she wouldn’t have moved in the first place shouting “Wait!”, indicating that she obviously knew Naruto was being attacked.

    Granted, she couldn’t cover the distance and intercept his attack on time whereas Bee could. All that shows is that Bee is faster than Tsunade, not that Tsunade can’t react to the Raikage.

    Jiraiya and Orochimaru are faster than her though. Orochimaru might not be able to do anything because of his lower close combat skill (Hiruzen disarmed him, KN4 cut him in two), but Jiraiya is excellent at taijutsu (4.5/5 according to the DB) and is a full tier ahead of Tsunade in speed too.
     
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  9. Bonly

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    They can't react to his top speed but otherwise they can easily react to his speed and they can react to B as well
     
  10. Mad Scientist

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    Well, edo Itachi was reacting to and was somewhat keeping up with both KCM Naruto and Bee. Granted, he did have a Sharingan. Though, Tsunade reacted to Edo Mads, who had a Sharingan/Rinnegan too, and kept up with his Susanoo clones, and I don't see why Mads is not at Itachi's reaction and travelling/taijutsu speed levels.
     
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  11. Turrin

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    I have a dream. I dream of the day the NBD will understand the difference between physical reaction speed and the Jutsu Shunshin.

    B used Shunshin and Tsunade didn’t. That’s all your showing.
     
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  12. Lawrence777

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    Well Sasuke speed feats and sharingan precog was only narrowly able to avoid V1 Killer B's shunshin at him in plain sight. This happens again later where he ducks V1 Ay but barely.

    And Sannin arent as fast as Sasuke imo, I dont think they do equally I think there worst in speed reaction department

    I can see Jiraiya managing a block if hes in SM at the time in those instances. And if they know there coming then any of sannin can begin weave a ninjutsu in anticipation ahead of time.
     
  13. Orochimaru op

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    made him spit blood

    People try to ignore this because they don’t want the sanin to be good smh
     
  14. Orochimaru op

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    Your whole post was amazing as usually but I disagree with this. There’s no indication that they are faster.
     
  15. ShinAkuma

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    That dream is dead homie.

    It's all "he runs really fast BLITZOMGGURGLE".
     
  16. Cherry

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    No she doesn't lol
     
  17. Godaime Tsunade

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    Thanks lol. Well the databook scores them higher than Tsunade. Orochimaru could dodge KN4’s chakra arm, his tongue could blitz both Jiraiya and Tsunade during the Sannin battle, and in general it makes sense that he’d be faster as he can transform into a snake and slither around the battlefield.

    Jiraiya doesn’t really have any speed feats in base but he’s never had a taijutsu encounter before. I tend to trust DB scores so I believe he’s faster.
     
  18. MaruUchiha

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    I like this noob
     
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  19. Orochimaru op

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    I don’t believe DB scores mostly because kid naruto has higher speed then hiruzen. And chouji’s habdseal strength goes down between part one and two
     
  20. Shazam

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    If Tsunade can react to Edo Madara who easily reacted to WA SM Naruto and Itachi could react to KCM Naruto who A3 could react to as well, Tsunade by scaling alone should be able to react to A4, maybe not keep up with him, but be able to fight him at least.
     
  21. Turrin

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    Databook scores are relevant around the time they are released. So the idea that Old man Hiruzen and Kid Naruto could have equivalent speed made sense in the Chuunin Exams arc in P1; it obviously doesn’t make sense in P2 with power scaling. So as long as you take a data book in context with the time it takes place you won’t have any issues.

    So Jiraiya, Tsunade, and Oro DB stats in speed should make sense in relation to comparing them to each other.
     
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  22. Lawrence777

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    I don't see Ay vs any of the sannin ending in an outright blitz lol Kishi wouldn't do that to them (outside V2) but the fight would probably be unequal like seven sword KB vs Sasuke or Lee vs Gaara.
     
  23. Orochimaruwantsyourbody

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    Tsunade already kept up with lightened Ei, Orochimaru’s personal summon (Tobirama) tagged Jubito and can solo Kumo with his clones, and Base Jiraiya low diff’d Juubito.

    I would say all of them blitz the Raikage.
     
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  24. Shazam

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    Not at all.

    Sure speed will be the Sannin issue, and that speed will be what causes this not to be a low diff fight otherwise. The Sannin have methods to limit the damage which can be done by said speed however and have attacks and defenses that A4 ultimately cant overcome
     
  25. Godaime Tsunade

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    Kid Naruto had the same speed stat as Old Hiruzen by the time of the Sasuke Retrieval Arc, he wasn’t faster than him. He only surpasses him in speed by the time of Part 2.

    I think it’s believable that SRA Naruto could be in the same tier of speed as Hiruzen though because Old Hiruzen didn’t really have any out of the ordinary speed feats. He was slower than any other Elite Jōnin or Kage-level ninja that we saw in Part 1.

    And SRA Naruto wasn’t a Genin-level combatant anyway, he was likely Low Jōnin level. In terms of speed, he was able to dodge an attack from Orochimaru’s boss-sized twin snakes during the Sannin battle. He could also react to Kabuto after he tried to punch Tsunade, blocking it with his headband despite having a fractured/broken leg.

    Chōji learned more taijutsu manœuvres over the timeskip so it’s possible that he just practiced less with handseals and got rusty at them. No reason why that couldn’t be feasible.
     
  26. Ultrafragor

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    Sorry, what the fuck is this thread?

    it seems like someone's trying to refute that Tsunade's shunshin can match A4's V2 shunshin, but who the fuck ever claimed that?
     
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  27. Turrin

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    He kept up with Orochimaru that later had a 4.5 in speed and even partially dodging Juubito TSB should tell us that stats out dated.
     
  28. Reznor Supporting Staff

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    Wait what.

    1. You are showing Tsunade not able to intercept Ay after he had already started moving from a closer distance to Naruto than she was.
    2. You are showing that Tsunade is surprised by Bee entering the combat.

    Neither of those even imply that A is faster than Tsunade, much less that she can't even react. I agree that A is significantly faster and that Tsunade wouldn't be able to react in time in that that situation, but this is pretty iffy evidence of that and very overstated.
     
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  29. Reznor Supporting Staff

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    Basically this.
     
  30. ShinAkuma

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    False equivalence is what the NBD specializes in!
     
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