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Feats I don't quite get

Discussion in 'Naruto Meta-Battledome' started by trocollo, Mar 25, 2020.

  1. trocollo

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    Hashirama vs Madara:
    we see the modified TBB cutting trought the wood rather easly, now what would happen if one of those balls had been launced straight towards Hashirama? Would he tank it with a wood construct different from the arms who got cutted?

    the susanoo gets blown up, was that the limit of Madara's chakra? Like couldn't he do another one?
    Also Madara is outside it, does that mean he tanked with his body a little part of the attack or the part that was protecting Madara was convenientely blown with the last shot and with the right strenght to break the susanoo but not Madara?


    A4 vs Bee:
    So, each other with a lariat, and Bee A4 while in base
    My problem with this is:

    - Lariat should do quite the damage, as seen
    Granted that Bee shapes hors with his chakra we need to also grant to A4 the fact that he uses an actual raiton armor, so his piercing is enhanced, like we see
    So we suppose that A4 can chose to make his raiton so dull that's like a cushion?

    - Bee owerpovered A4 while in base
    This is rather strange cause Bee from a previous attack, and got after A4 got up, plus it doesn't seem to make sense that just the base form is enough


    Minato vs Madara:
    While Madara confirmed that juubi jin are hungry for his arms, why this time Minato didn't teleport away? Like Minato the attack with his cut arm, and leaves the arm with the rasengan the furthest away from Madara, who, having faster arm movement than him, the confrontation
    Now Minato still doesn't telport away even trough he gets his arm and body kicked, and still doesn't teleport away when his body and his arm are towards his allyes (he can telport himself to avoid slamming on Gaara and he can telports his arm away from Kakashi like he telported the army away from the TBB)
    So do we suppose that Minato's reactions were too slow to do that? That would go aganist his other feats


    Gokage vs Madara:
    How much time that fight lasted? And why these things didn't happened:
    - Mei melting the susanoo like she did
    - A4 merging with Onoki and breaking the susanoo like they did
    - Gaara yeeting clones out of their susanoo like he did

    If these thing didn't happened cause the kage weren't going all out to preserve their chakra, was that a good strategy? Cause the susanoo aren't getting defeated by themselves, in fact, boosted jinton solved the problem easy peasy lemon squezy


    Kakashi in the WA:
    How he ended up being able to do so many Kamui in the WA? He was even able to swirl Gyuki in and out, do we suppose that his body changed and adaped to his MS? Cause it should usually drain and damage it unless you have an EMS
     
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  2. Draco Bolton

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    Kyuubi chakra for Gyuki case.
    Spoiler:




    He probably also received some medical care in the middle of the war ( ).

    And he is probably just better with MS too.

    Many factors.

     
  3. trocollo

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    This is rather fair, I'm cool enough with that now
     
  4. Ayala

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    . Madara vs Minato: maybe the delay was due to Minato being hurt and the events overall happening too fast. He possibly needs a clear thought and a bit of focus to activate FTG, the events were supposed to happen at very high speeds. Madara could backstep and dodge 7G Gai who was claimed inhuman, and Gaara's automatic defense didn't even activate when Minato was thrown at him.

    . The Gokage/Madara fight lasted as long as Kabuto/Uchiha.

    Mei was shown to have melted them a bit.

    A/Onoki backpack combo probably can't handle 10 Susano'o clones or more, and Onoki was doing fine and better off alone. A too was fine for most part, until he got distracted.

    Gaara used the sand that was inside Madara's Susano'o to get him out, but those legged clones didn't have any inside.

    .A vs base B is generally agreed to be nonsense, as almost any other feat that compares them point towards A being superior.
     
  5. Lyren

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    The fight most likely lasted a long time, maybe 5-6 hours at least.
    Acid mist is the capable jutsu of melting opponents but as Mei said, it damages her allies as well so thats why she didnt use it probably.
    Idk why you dont understand A4 and Onoki being able damage susano :hm
    Gaara was the kage who fought the most alongside Onoki so he was poor in chakra reserves.

    The kage didnt go fully out mainly because of the fact that they were already exhausted bar Tsunade and A4 imo.
     
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  6. trocollo

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    But being hurt doesn't hurt if you're an edo, like Minato already used FTG after his arm got cut
    For Gaara, so we suppose that kicked Minato was faster than anything that was trown at Gaara before? Maybe Gaara just didn't have any sand cause he used all of it for the wall?

    Ok, that works, but why didn't Onoki used the boosted jinton like before? He even said "It's 5 vs 25" not "1 vs 5", but then everyone proceded to fight 1 vs 5?

    I see


    A4 and Onoki can damage the susanoo with the backpack combo, i was referring to that, now isn't stupid for the Gokage to didn't go all out and just exhaust more chakra whitout being able to destroy the susanoo when jjust Tsunade + Onoki grants an easy solution like we've seen?
     
  7. Lyren

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    Well you have to consider that the gokage never fought with each other too
     
  8. trocollo

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    And still Onoki was eable to quicly team up with A4 and Gaara, but somehow it took him so much time to defeat his 5 susanoo to then go to help the others while they could just reunite like he did at the start and like they were at the start of the fight, like I don't get how the whole "long fight" happened, boosted jinton from the start would have solved the problem, but it bacame an high diff for the kage cause for some reason they decided to wear themselves down?
     
  9. Sufex

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    The answers to a lot of these is just :kishi
     
  10. Lyren

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    1 - Madara could absorb the jinton so they maybe waited for an optimal situation
    2 - Madara didnt let the gokage many opporunities to coordinate attacks as the susannos were pressuring them a lot.. Tsunade boosted Onoki right after he defeated his 5 susanos and released A4 from genjutsu too.
    3 - The kage were never aware of Tsunade capacities since the begining as they always expressed shock when she does something outstanding with her Byakugo so it maybe took Onoki long time to figure that she can replenish him with LOT of chakra ? :hm
    4- Okoki fought with Gaara a decent amount of time so him figuring a combo with Gaara early on is legit while lightning A4 isnt some mindblowing strategy either lol
     
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  11. Ayala

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    Minato shows signs of pain there, and check out how hard their crashed. Obito cut off the hand of the superior KCM Minato before he could move out, the superior to Obito, Madara does him worse.

    Yes you're right, they could have pulled that Jinton combo since the start, without going through all that trouble, fighting as the team the are supposed to be. Plot reasons i suppose, and the fact they have to show a bit of tension here and there.
     
  12. trocollo

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    1. If that was the problem then waiting doesn't solve it, like they just do it in front of him without using distractions
    2. They started the fight togheter and somehow got separated, but Onoki, A4 and Gaara have the mobility necessary to allow the group to regroup at any time
    3. This makes some sense, trough Tsunade could've suggetsed that, like Onoki supposed she could do that, but was sure of it?
    4. It's also not mindblown for Tsunade to help others with her medical ninjistu or for Onoki to do a half spin with jinton to quickly take care of the susanoo


    True, Minato feels pain, but like, why? Neither of the edo seemed to feel it
    It's ok for Madara being the superior so has to do better, but in the Juubito case there was at least a situation with Minato having PTSD or something, here seems just to be exagerated, and I just noticed Gaara had the goud on, who even if it's empty it can break itself into sand and protect not only Gaara but also Kakashi
    Maybe I'm looking too much into it? Idk

    So in your opinion, how you value this fight, like you go with the "narrative" and consider the gokage vs 25 clones a high diff battle or go with feats and consider it a neg diff?
     
  13. Ayala

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    For the first question, i don't know honestly. The thing about Gaara's sand not reacting is exactly my point, the events happened so fast that the sand didn't even move. Yes seems weird for Minato to be done in like that without even being capable of teleporting, but Minato probably wasn't even prepared for it, as the whole situation was an emergency, you either land your strike or it's over, there's no back up plans. So he went in, got chopped and kicked before he could even connect the both together, and that was it. He probably didn't even know he was crashing against Gaara.

    The fight that happened in the narrative is obviously a high diff, as they had a hard time overall. But if the fight was repeated, one could argue that the Gokage go for that combo early on and win the fight fairly easily.

    There was no sense on the Gokage delaying it that much, all the Gokage knew they were losing the battle, so why wait that long? It's not like they had to figure something out either, the moment they decided to combo, they knew exactly what they were going to do.

    Yeah but overall that fragment of the fight is weird as hell, they ennacted such a complex plan without even talking it out, and without ever having worked in a team before.
     
  14. trocollo

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    Pretty much agree with both arguments, guess that's what we can say :mitsukisip
     
  15. T-Bag

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    there is nothing to get...because "feats" are not consistent. They're only as good as the plot demands them to be at the moment they're executed.
    People can try to rationalize everything but that's the reality of it.

    One minute amatarasu blows up a impregnable meat wall like a bomb, the next it can barely burn off cloth. just an example
     
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  16. Speedyamell

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    The scan already pretty much shows that the hands and the bombs countered each other.
    Bee himself mentioned how Ay underestimated him. As you've shown, bee getting slapped aside by base Ay immediately dissuaded the idea that base bee is indeed stronger than cloaked Ay
    I think it was implied that minato was exhausted at that point or sth:hm
    It lasted from day to night.

    Mei's yoton was also melting susanoo a bit.
    But her acid mist couldn't be used with comrades around.

    I honestly don't understand why Ay and onoki split up against the madara clones either.

    Gaara could only do that to bottomless susanoo. Legged susanoo got rid of that weakness
    He received Kurama chakra. At one point. And also recovered inside kurama avatar at another..
    That plus him also getting better with the jutsu and his body adapting
     
  17. trocollo

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    Ok, but what you chose in these cases?
    Like does amaterasu gets blocked by a cloth or it will burn the enemy's bones?
    Or do you go full plot and assume that amaterasu will burn an enemy to the bones if said enemy is a fodder, and it will do no damage if said enemy is portrayed above the caster?


    Can you point where though? Like I see the the bladed TBB cutting trough the wood arms without exploding and continue in it's trajectory, Madara also says "Now how you plan in grabbing it?" at Hashirama after the first time he uses this tactic

    I see, but why did he use the raiton armor and not just ran at Bee in base like the latter did? I mean raiton is suppose to pierce at least if there is force behind it, in fact jugo got pierced and when he didn't oppose resistance he got slammed on a wall, Bee opposed resistance but his skin was fine

    Can work, but is strange for an edo being exhausted, but he also felt pain there so I guess edo rules just stopped working for a bit

    It's day to night a bit too much? Like you got that from a sun/moon in the panels, other means, statements etc..?

    Yeah for Mei and Gaara, Ayala also made me notice that, agree on A4 and Onoki

    So how you see the fight Gokage vs susanoo clones? I mean you consider it an high diff for the gokage or you consider it a low diff? Cause story-wise took them a lot and couldn't handle them till the end, but feat-wise they could've pulled that jinton gg from the start without wasting chakra

    I also accepted that thanks to Draco, agree
     
  18. Veracity

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    Regarding the Ay vs Bee situation, I always interpreted it as Ay underestimating Bee. That’s actually the entire theme of the chapter and is stated on multiple occasions throughout the flashback.

    From a portrayal point of view Base Bee being > to V2 Ay actually makes zero sense. It also doesn’t even make sense from a feats perspective, as Ay has far greater strength feats than Base Bee.
     
  19. trocollo

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    Well, he could've just charged in base like Bee did, but I guess I'll go with that
     
  20. Veracity

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    I agree too. I honestly think Kishi just wasn’t thinking when he made that scene if were being honest.

    But I mean at the end of the day that shit still happened. So I don’t get overly worked up when people use it to debate despite several other feats proving that Base Bee should not be that strong.
     
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