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Feats v Portrayal

Discussion in 'Naruto Battledome' started by JuicyG, Nov 9, 2018.

Pick

  1. Feats

    13 vote(s)
    54.2%
  2. Portrayal

    11 vote(s)
    45.8%
  1. JuicyG Well-Known Member

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    Which is more important to you when gauging a characters' standing?

    Which should come first?
     
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  2. GilDLax Well-Known Member

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    Feats. Portrayal, if really really really heavily thrown at your face then maybe the author is saying ''my intention is this but my writing is not good enough I can't find a way to show it'', in which case...well, still feats.
     
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  3. WorldsStrongest Wick Dizard

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    Feats or youre wrong period

    Ive debated in a load of other forums and boards...Only in the NBD is it even discussed otherwise

    Feats trump everything everywhere on any matter.
     
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  4. Hussain Well-Known Member

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    Both are equally important.

    However, as far as the manga goes, the portrayal is more important.
    Characters will do PIC, CIS just so the portrayal goes as intended even if it does not
    make sense. :catshrug
     
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  5. Bonly Flame Alchemist

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    Portrayal. Kishi doesn't have the time to show off everything in the arsenal for every character and some people get more panel time then others whereas overall portrayal you can get a general idea of how strong he wants the character to be viewed even if they appear for a short amount of time. You'd have to be an idiot to outright ignore what Kishi is clearly trying to say about his characters because you don't like it but I don't blame them sometimes
     
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  6. Tri ✌️

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    They’re both important but I tend to lean towards portrayal being more important because characters who get more panel time are gonna gather more feats and seem more impressive than how the story is actually portraying them compared to characters without that panel time a good example of this is the 3rd Kazekage and Gaara as Gaara had better feats and his sand seemed more impressive than Satetsu but the manga clearly wanted Satetsu to be seen as the superior of the two with all the statements and the databook indicating such.
     
  7. Shark On a break..

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    Portrayal is more important.

    In fact, a lot of times those who strictly support feats rely on portrayal like character statements when their fave is on the line or sometimes do it subconsciously. Whereas other times they outright deny statements (interpreting statements differently is another matter).

    Look at the Sannin overall as well, whether you think Jiraiya or Orochimaru is stronger it is impossible to argue that based strictly on feats, some statements/comparisons/hype always get in the picture.

    The thing is, portrayal is actually fun to argue and there is room for it. Take Itachi vs Jiraiya, Itachi says they're equal, Orochimaru says Itachi is stronger than him but says Jiraiya is weaker than him, Jiraiya seems to parallel Itachi sometimes (SM vs MS) while he parallels Orochimaru in others (Sannin/Team 7/hardwork vs genius).

    Another example is Tsunade vs Onoki, Onoki was said to be weaker than Hiruzen who is implied to be weaker than Tsuunade, but Onoki was highlighted as the best among the Gokage, but some despute that saying only his will was highlighted not his strength, but others say "post-stone Onoki" is portrayed as stronger than he was before because he stopped making excuses.

    I personally think those who follow portrayal more are actually better at interpreting feats anyway, because judging a feat strictly by what is shown without considering the context and portrayal and what Kishimoto might actually be trying to say - immediately shows its flaws.

    Besides, portrayal isn't just an "X is stronger than Y" statement, it's much more than that - which rarely anyone but those who go by portrayal actually understand.
     
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  8. Shazam Well-Known Member

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    Going for feats myself.

    A display on panel is definitive. Statements can be retconned, so can overall portrayal. But a feat won't be and is set in stone. Statements of portrayal can also be exaggerated.
     
  9. Sage light Well-Known Member

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    Portrayal. They are definitive in the sense that one can know for sure who's the stronger one among two characters, or how powerful a certain technique should be percieved to be.

    Only the absurd ones in this community go solely by feats and say "canonical statements can be retconned" or that "feats>hype, so a certain technique doesn't have feats suggesting it can do this, so it clearly can't."

    Those kind of analysis always goes down the drain. Ignoring statements so you can make the flashy lights, and explosions happening on panel, the norm, is utterly nonsensical.
     
  10. Topace Master Caster Of The Sabaku Warlocks

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    Feats.

    Gaara> 3rd Kazekage
     
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  11. King Ramirez Well-Known Member

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    Feats.
     
  12. JuicyG Well-Known Member

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    Very evenly split. I wonder if the arguments in debates stem from this split in ideology
     
  13. Isaiah13000 Snake Vessel

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    They aren't two different things in the first place, a character's hype and feats both make up their overall portrayal throughout a series. But I side with the statements more-so than the showings because they are far less subjective and more objective. Valuing what Kishimoto was clearly trying to convey through his character's words will always be more important than what you personally think of a character's feats. To think otherwise is simply silly and ridiculous.
     
  14. King1 Go Wild

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    Really wondering why NBD is the only place where people value Portrayal over feats or equal to feats.:pepethink

    Because no other forum or section does that, it's so unnatural to gauge how strong a character is or how well a character does in a match mainly by portrayal when said character does not have the feats to back up his/her portrayal.

    So we should assume Hiruzen is stronger than Ohnoki because he was portrayed above him while Ohnoki have the feats that suggest he is above him?

    So we should assume jiraiya wins a match against characters he is portrayed as superior to even though said character have the feats to suggest he will beat jiraiya in a match?

    Portrayal comes before feats when said characters has no panel time to showcase his power like kakashi's father, third kazekage etc. But when they have showed what they can do then why value portrayal over feats?:hmm
     
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  15. Ultrafragor Well-Known Member

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    I assume portrayal was only originally used to spice up debates because only debating with onscreen feats leaves characters who are indicated to be powerful getting beat by trash who got a little more screentime.

    However, trying to use power levels or portrayal to trump on screen feats (when both characters have them) is dumb.

    Overall, neither is superior because the author is responsible for both feats and statements of all characters.

    It doesn't matter if character A looked to be faster in a scene if the author had character A state that character B is faster than them.

    Statements can be picked apart and scrutinized, but not completely banned from an argument because feats exist.

    If jutsu Y is called deadly, then it's deadly. It doesn't matter if it looks cool enough to you when it hits someone.



    The real enemy in debates is personal opinions being used as fact. People will masquerade their opinion as fact by taking a single statement or single feat and ignoring everything else to pretend their one example has ended the argument.
     
  16. SakuraLover16 Lookin like a SNACK!!!

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    They need to be used in conjuction
     
  17. Kai R I N N I N G Retired Staff

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    So you don’t use portrayal whatsoever when ranking Hamura in your tier list? Not to mention Tenseigan Hamura who is completely featless.
     
  18. Skaddix Well-Known Member

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    Feats only salty Hiruzen and Sannin fanboys want to rely on Portrayal.

    If you are going to tell me Portrayal matters more in say Fullmetal Alchemist I will entertain the argument in it because its clear that author had a damn plan from day one. But Kishi come on retcons everywhere especially in Part II.
     
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  19. FlamingRain Living Legend Moderator

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    WorldsStrongest uses portrayal from time to time. Think he's just saying that feats matter more to him.
     
  20. Shark On a break..

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    A retcon in a characters portrayal doesn't disqualify portrayal altogether, it just means the new portrayal of that character is what signifies his standing.

    Of course a "retconned portrayal" could just be someone not being impressed with a character's feats and baselessly concluding that the author must have changed his mind regarding a certain statement/portrayal.
     
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  21. Skaddix Well-Known Member

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    Except he did come on compare what counts as impressive Suiton in Part I and what counts in Part II and then tell me no retcons occurred. Kisame is causally creating Lakes and Second Hokage is getting praise for what making a jacuzzi worth of water?


    That is just one example I can easily pull out more.

    Not to mention your main source for Hiruzen's Greatness is a damn scrub in Iruka. He probably die from AOE if he was close to a Top Tier Fight.
     
  22. Shark On a break..

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    That's just power inflation regarding jutsu scale, the actual portrayal i.e comparisons between the characters doesn't change - what Kishi changed his mind on was the scale/flashiness of jutsu. Look at Hiruzen's feats in the war arc and his feats in the Edo Tensei fight.
     
  23. Skaddix Well-Known Member

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    No Power Scaling is Naruto going from Rasengan to Rasenshuriken.

    It does not apply to a legendary Hokage being praised for a jutsu that be a damn Joke in Part II.
     
  24. JuicyG Well-Known Member

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    I can assure u that most of these people in this thread are not Hiruzen or Sannin "fanboys" at all, heck most probably dont even like those characters. So that premise is false.
     
  25. Skaddix Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps I am just saying Hiruzen and Sannin fans are the ones who fallback on Hype over Feats the most often by far.
     
  26. Isaiah13000 Snake Vessel

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    Why would salty Hiruzen and Sannin fanboys want to rely on hype over feats? All of these named characters have a decent amount of good feats anyway.
    Kishimoto having retcons throughout his series doesn't completely discredit those arguments entirely that's just ridiculous.
     
  27. Kubish Well-Known Member

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    People have different opinions on feats, hence the author may not be able to get his intentions across.
    Portrayal is a more reliable method for the author to present something as an undisputable fact.
     
  28. Orochimaruwantsyourbody Well-Known Member

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    I’m obviously on the portrayal side.

    Something I find important with feats is two different ways of interpreting them. 1, The Jutsu and abilities used, and 2, the results of battles in context.

    While 1 tells us certain things, it doesn’t really say much about somebodies overall strength. 2 meanwhile says a lot and sets probably most portrayal, but 1 and 2 are typically used by different people. Looking at the result of the battles in context is crucial for determining portrayal of Ninja overall, while looking at the specific abilities that got them there isn’t as important.

    Abilities are almost entirely subjective and can be written almost any which way. We have some people who think Suiton is the best element, some who think Doton is the best, some who think Raiton is the best, some who think Katon is the worst and some who think Futon is the worst when I don’t recall the series ever treating any of these as intrinsically better or worse. Some fans think that extreme speed can give a Ninja a near absolute advantage, or that nukes give a near absolute advantage, or extreme durability. But that’s subjective fanon.

    2, the outcomes of battles in context, give us much more concrete evidence. Many people think that Deidara>Hebi Sasuke because he uses bigger attacks, but it’s evident from their fight that Sasuke can beat Deidara (who has help) while holding back. Some people like to imagine Ei using his abilities in OOC manners to defeat Itachi, but his fight against a less than fully matured MS Sasuke shows us that someone like Itachi is too strong. Based on this it is evident that Hebi Sasuke>Deidara and Itachi>Ei, but some people will place abilities over actual outcomes. 2 is far more important than 1 because it shows us how useful these things actually are when the fighting starts.

    Usually, people who use portrayal use battle outcomes in context to form the biggest part of characters portrayal. And usually, people using abilities over portrayal and battle outcomes in context are just using it as an excuse to explain why their favorite is always a bad matchup for their opponent, their least favorites always have nothing but bad matchups, and why the abilities their favorites use are actually stronger than they are.
     
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  29. WorldsStrongest Wick Dizard

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    Thats not what i even remotely implied

    I said Feats are more important, not that portrayal is WITHOUT import.

    Youre putting words in my mouth
     
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  30. Hi no Ishi Well-Known Member

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    Feats + Statements = Portrayal.

    Ignoring some of the manga to overstress others is silly, and too easily subject to bias.


    Edit: since its been brought up in the thread look at Hiruzen.

    Portrayed as able to take on three Kage levels, hyped by Iruka in part one.
    The "Feats Only" crowd will tell you his feats make him a low end Kage if even that, because of his lack of giant explosions. Ignore that these attacks are about the same as the one in the Sasuke vs Itachi battle I guess.

    This of course requires ignoring part 2 having him declare himself the strongest of a group including Tobirama, Danzo wondering if he ever caught up to him, his edo feats and the DB calling him more talented than Tobirama.

    Could the author be so wrong about his own character?

    Or the "portrayal only" crowd who keeps using part one statements of Kisame basically being trash to the Sannin while ignoring that his feats would at least put him as a high diff fight to any Sannin or Kage.

    Does it make sense to still count him as Part 1 Kakashi level?

    Clearly the answer is no to both.
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2018
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