1. chrolloseum
    Take your chances in The Chrolloseum!
    Opened September 29th through October 15th
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Welcome to the forums! Take a second to look at our Beginner's Guide. It contains the information necessary for you to have an easier experience here.

    Thanks and have fun. -NF staff
    Dismiss Notice

Functioning of the Sharingan

Discussion in 'Konoha Library Archives' started by Liung, Apr 3, 2005.

  1. Liung

    Messages:
    154
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2005
    We have all noticed what a three tomoe sharigan user sees during a fight with the Naruto vs Sasuke fight (Ch.230 p.6-11) but something has been bothering me for a while: How does it really works?

    I mean it has never been truly explained how can it predicts that a movement (not talking about nin or gen simply the movements) will be performed with a 100% succes rate.
    Moreover it's safe to assume that it predicts not only movements of human but those of the objects too, if we assume that Obito saved Kakashi from dying because he predicted that a rock would fall on him for exemple. I've seen some theories about that trying to explain by physics saying that this dojustu break the timeline or something like that but in a world where a boy has a demon in his stomach and where shinobis can breath fire I don't think advanced physics works that much...

    From my point of view, the sharingan works with chakra movements which it can detects (see Ch.243 p.5). On this image we can see that Obito can see the chakra flow within Rin and apparently some of it outside of her body (little marks around her body) and he used the 2 tomoe sharingan (the less evolved sharingan) only for a couple of minutes. Getting used to the Sharingan the user seems to predict movements better and faster and it's maybe because the evolved sharingan allow to see better the chakra movements within the body and the AIR. That's probably why the tree tomoe is much more superior to the other, because the prediction is made from the chakra flow within the body (by seeing how the chakra is distributed among the muscles and presdicting accordingly) AND the movements that the body creates by moving in the air.

    Quiet long for a first post, so what do you guyz think about this explanation?
     
    Tags:
  2. Mu Dada

    Messages:
    31
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2005
    Hrm...i i'm not sure it just predicts chakra flow, for one thing...
    Spoiler:
    sasuke wasn't able to predict naruto's nine-tails chakra when he went up another kyubbi level until he was able to go curse seal 2

    more likely, i believe it predicts the movement of physical objects...the byakugan can however see chakra flow (remember when neji was fighting naruto and he noticed the differences in chakra from the ninetails?)
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2005
  3. TenshiOni

    Messages:
    17,684
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2005
    Probably everything u'd want to know about the Sharingan: Link removed

    Here's another good source from our own forum. Rep Jyuuken for his awesome work: Link removed
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2005
  4. Kyuubi Naruto

    Messages:
    24,179
    Likes Received:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2004
    True. My opinion is that it comes from one of the sources of the Byakugan. If you look into mythology, then the Byakugan connects to predicting the future. That for one is probably why I think the Byakugan will evolve into the Senshin Byakugan later on that can predict the future.

    Onto the Sharingan. Since it evolve from the Byakugan, that is one trait that it has but isnt fully available to it. It can predict movements slightly but it nos able to predict the future. It can predict small instances but when Kyuubi Naruto level 2 used its chakra fox and it hit Sasuke, that was from pure chakra movement. It cant predict that. Its not possible.

    I dont even think the Mangekyou can predict chakra like that. The Byakugan is the only thing that I think can predict that.
     
  5. Tautou

    Messages:
    574
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2004
    It's not because it can detect the chakra flow that it can read movements. Kakashi was able to catch the path that Zabuza's sword was taking, for example.

    But right now it can't.

    Sasuke was able to predict the chakra's movements. There's an entire panel dedicated to showing this. But because it's a last second movement, he can't predict what it will do while predicting Naruto's movements.

    The Byakugan can't predict movements, by the way, so most of that is completely off.

    I will repeat, it can't predict movements at all.
     
  6. Shisui

    Messages:
    2,366
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2004
    I'm with Tautou. The Sharingan follows movements with incredible precision and that's what allows it to predict future movements. If my eyesight was so penetrating and precise that I could instantaneously know the exact positions of all your muscles and bones from each moment to the next, it goes without saying that I could reliably predict exactly how you're about to move, then react accordingly. That's all that's going on.

    When Sasuke is "seeing" those future-images of Naruto it's just Kishimoto's visual interpretation of the Sharingan's ability to exactly read Naruto's normal movements. But the Sharingan isn't perfect, and it can't see everything at once. When Naruto goes into psycho fox form:
    1.) He is a lot faster, making it more difficult for the Sharingan to keep up, and
    2.) His attacks can come from anywhere on his body and aren't based on his physical movements, making them much more difficult (if not impossible) for the Sharingan to predict.
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2005
  7. Pazuzu

    Messages:
    375
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2004
    In my words:

    Two-pip Sharingan
    This slows down movements so that the user can see what the opponent is doing. With this ability, the user can see, for example, whether their opponent is launching a kick and react to it, however the slowing down of the movement is only an eye effect, and unless the user is fast enough, there's nothing that they can do about the kick, they just know that it's coming.
    Because of this, I believe that the Sharingan affects the nerves between the eye and the brain, speeding up the electrical impulses. The movements of the opponent appear to the eyes as slow motion, but reaction and prevention all happen in real-time.
    The Sharingan can also see a vague amount of chakra flow, and because of this can distinguish forms created of chakra, such as Mizu Bunshins, from real bodies.
    Due to the slowing of movements, a user with high intelligence can remember the movements and apply them to themselves, effectively copying the movement or jutsu. This is a difficult task, and only geniuses are generally able to do this.
    For this reason, the Uchiha pride themselves in turning out geniuses whose development they work on early so that they may be able to use this extra ability devised from the effects of the Sharingan.

    Three-pip Sharingan
    This evolved version of the Sharingan builds upon the earlier version of the Sharingan.
    The movements of the opponent, along with slowing down, are now analyzed by the eye and a shadow of their movement is seen. This acts as an effective prediction of the opponent's movements, however the eye cannot predict the movement of chakra.
    It is also rumored that unpredictable movements such as the Drunken Fist style, which are in their nature random and seemingly illogical, would not be predictable by this Sharingan.
    This effect of predicting movements has an extra use in battle, as utilized most effectively by Kakashi in his fight with Zabuza. As the opponent forms hand seals, the user may see from the movements which seals they are forming before they are completed, and therefore use the jutsu at the same time as the opponent. It is nearly impossible to concentrate on both following the seals and memorizing their order, so only a true genius of the Sharingan could be able to do both.
    This prediction of movements can also be used to read lip movements, and with fast enough response time from the user, the user can speak at the same time as the opponent, creating the illusion that they are able to see the future and severely confusing and discouraging the opponent.

    Mangekyou Sharingan
    This is the final form of the Sharingan.
    Using this eye, the user can effect the ultimate genjutsu, Tsukuyomi. This genjutsu brings the opponent into a world completely under the user's control. There, the user can torture the opponent either physically or mentally without leaving a scratch on the opponent's physical body. This may also have the aftereffect of leaving the opponent in a comatose state.
    Not much more is known about the Mangekyou Sharingan at this stage, as only one Uchiha of this generation has manifested it, although it is said that this person is one of three who have the ability to awaken it.
     
  8. Malthara

    Messages:
    119
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2005
    ^ Don't forget the other move the mangekyou has, the Amaretsu and possibly susano but we've seen the amaretsu so the Mangekyou sharingan isn't only the Genjutsu I think it has a move for each. The Amaretsu being Ninjutsu Tsukiyomi being Genjutsu and Taijutsu being possibly the susano.

    Granted Ya I think it could predict Drunken fist but it wouldn't be accurate. I figure it see's the way chakra is moving through their body and how their muscles are extending and so it'll get a picture of the next move but then since the opponent is drunk they wouldn't follow the predicted path and just screw up or do something else completely random. It'd see what's expected.. then the user would just completely do something else so it wouldn't be reliable but could do it. Like someone cocking back their arm then extending it to punch you so you'd see the punch in the prediction but then they fall forward halfway through the punch do a body roll into a handstand and kick you while they are standing on their hands.. Granted this is highspeed drunken fist so it'd happen instantly but the sharingan probably would've seen the original punch coming.
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2005
  9. Blu Tullip

    Messages:
    17
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2005
    Hey, take into account that Sasuke is more over the -talented- bloodline of the Uchiha. Orichimaru, during the fight in the Forest of DEATH, tells Sasuke that he can see things like his brother never dreamed of. (Or a variation of that.) Itachi probaly can't see phsyical movements at all; we honestly just don't know. But, I believe, the swirls are able to penetrate these techniques accordingly;
    1 Swril - Jujustu.
    2 Swirls - Genjustu.
    3 Swrils - Taijustu.
    A more advanced, twisted variation of it - Mind Screwing Up Techniques!

    Even though Kakashi doesn't have the twisted variation of the Sharingan, he's able to predict (copy) what Zabuza says. Even though it was all explained, it really didn't come toghether; it was like a freaking complicated game of Go or Shogi. The Sharingan can't possibly see or predict the movements or chakra either; thats the Byukgan's (spelluring!~) meat.

    It's all -really- complicated. I, for one, think the Sharigan is just too overpowered. What can it -NOT- do? =P

    -I also think- The sharingan is solely set on brain waves. If you take Lee, in his drunken boxing for example, Sasuke would get his butt kicked. The brain is totally screwed up and isn't purposely sending brain waves to the body. So =P Just another stupid fan boy theory.
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2005
  10. Pazuzu

    Messages:
    375
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2004
    Amaterasu is not a move. The black fire is one of the Uchiha trademark fire moves.

    Of course, I could be wrong and the databook could say otherwise, but it's only ever been mentioned in one line, and that line leads me to strongly believe that Amaterasu is another as-of-yet unknown facet of Tsukuyomi, like in a yin/yang kind of way.
     
  11. Liung

    Messages:
    154
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2005
    Orochimaru never said that he said that he saw more potential in Sasuke than his brother, however we know that Itachi used his sharingan at 8 (4 years before Sasuke) and became ANBU Captain at 13 after becoming a Chuunin some years before... So at the moment it's obvious, and sasuke realised it, that his brother is way too powerful for him and that he is inferior to him in everything. And there might be differences between the sharingan users but it can't be so big that Itachi can't see physical movements (which he can since Kakashi says that his eyes where those of a sharingan master).

    Predicting is the sharingan meat it was never stated that the byakugan predicts anything it can just see how the chakra flows and the chakra holes. And from Ch243 p.5 the sharingan can see chakra and its movements, Obito even said so on this same page.
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2005
  12. Tautou

    Messages:
    574
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2004
    Yes, the Sharingan can without a doubt predict movements and see the chakra flow. That's factual.

    The Byakugan can't predict movements. It can detect all attacks / see everything, but can't predict.
     
  13. Shisui

    Messages:
    2,366
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2004
    On the Sharingan vs. Drunken Fist:

    The Drunken First isn't unpredictable in the same way that Naruto's psycho fox form is unpredictable. The primary advantage of DF is that the more skilled and experienced your opponent is in taijutsu, the greater difficulty he's going to have countering your attacks. This is because the enemy is trying to predict your movements based on what he thinks another taijutsu user would normally do next. DF prevents him from doing this because a DF user's moves are random and not based on any strict forms or strategies.

    This is the same reason why professional poker players tend to win more reliably against other professionals than they do against novices, because novices don't use a strategy and therefore can be a lot more difficult to predict.

    However, the Sharingan doesn't predict movements by ascertaining the opponent's strategy the way Kimimaro would. The Sharingan predicts how you are about to move based on the intricate details of your physical posture (your minutiae, for any fellow Dune-fans out there). Lee's movements while using Drunken Fist are still 100% physical, and therefore the Sharingan should have no problem predicting them. The only way a taijutsu user like Lee can counter the Sharingan is by moving so fast that the Sharingan user's body can't keep up with what his eyes are seeing.
     
  14. styoshi

    Messages:
    9
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2005
    chakra flow? where does it ever say that?
     
  15. Tautou

    Messages:
    574
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2004
    Well, it's made obvious through out the entire manga, and confirmed in the Kakashi Gaiden.

    Obito, "I can see the chakra flow."

    And we saw that Obito was able to see inside of Rin's body, and detect her chakra flow.
     
  16. master bruce

    Messages:
    3,375
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2007
    sharingan slightly slows down an opponents' movements allowing you to see them more clearly and plus it allows you to see chalkra and anticipate an opponenets intended finishing movements,not exaclty read their minds or crap like that.

    This has been explained so many times it isn't funny, some of you guys must not have seen any of the episodes where this has been explained.


    Byukugan can't see future movements, it just allows you to see everything around you and see great distances, it also, allows you to see chalkra and to see even superfast movements at a much slower rate than a normal person could so you can react to them better.


    As for the byukagan predicting moves it can't neji just has the mental and analytical skill to predict this type of stuff on his own.

    The byukugan doesn't give him this ability, its his own through intense training, just like any jeet kune do master could predict most opponents' moves with 90% sucess rate, hint's the name way of the intercepting fist.



    sharingan see chalkra+slow down movement slightly+see prejected movements of opponents


    byukugan see chalkra+see 380 degrees+slow down movements alot.
    Can't see future movements just by byukugan, either you have this training or not, it doesn't come from the power itself.
     
  17. Shinkirou

    Messages:
    8,409
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2006
    Why'd you res this when the last post was made in 2005?
     
Loading...