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Gaza clashes: Dozens killed ahead of US embassy opening in Jerusalem

Discussion in 'The NF Café' started by Jin-E, May 14, 2018.

  1. Megaharrison Eternal President of the Cafe Retired Staff

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    Hamas itself has confirmed 50 of the 60 dead were its members



    rly makes me think
     
  2. SoulTaker The Ever Living

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    Were the 8 children that got killed in the riots apart of Hamas as well or is it just acceptable collateral damage as well? I mean God forbid the people who want to claim the moral high ground actually act morally, completely acceptable of them to stoop to levels of detestability they stand against. Eye for an eye, am I right?
     
  3. Megaharrison Eternal President of the Cafe Retired Staff

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    Why was Hamas bringing teenagers to a warzone?
     
  4. Xhominid The Avaricious

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    This is primarily what I was talking about...
    It's hard to say if there's a clear winner, loser, evil, good and it's dumb to try and paint that towards those that are ultimately just religious fanatics fighting over some dirt.

    Innocents will ultimately die at the hands of those that go so extreme, that they will kill or oppose anyone that they see as an enemy or act so irrational that this happens.
     
  5. Cardboard Tube Knight Well-Known Member

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    Israel’s basic attitude: It’s free real estate.
     
  6. baconbits SSL or nothing Super Moderator

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    I don't think you're trying to look at this logically anymore. You need to ask yourself this: could anything be done that was pro-Israel where Palestinians wouldn't riot? Who brought these teens to the chaos and who benefits when they die? Who benefits from the deaths of these Palestinians? The pro-Israel side or the opposition?

    The answer to these questions are fairly obvious. First, the question of where the embassy should be placed should be made independently of how one side will react. To do anything differently is to give all the power to the Palestinians. They will know they can change any political decision if they riot hard enough or even threaten to do so. And Trump is hardly the first President to make this decision, only the first to keep his word on it.

    Second, it's clear Hamas brought these teens because they knew there was a chance they'd get killed and their deaths would benefit the Palestinian cause. Is that cynical? Certainly, but it's the same mode of thinking that sends young men strapped with bombs onto buses. There is a side to choose in this conflict and it isn't the Palestinians.
     
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  7. Skaddix Well-Known Member

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    Indeed 100% HAMAS fault no culpability for Israel and IDF whatsoever.

    Hamas brings some teens to protest and its their fault the IDF decided to shoot first and ask questions later.
     
  8. Cardboard Tube Knight Well-Known Member

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    But just because they’re easily upset doesn’t make it okay to do something that most of the world and every previous president agreed was a bad idea.

    If Obama and Bush agreed it was a bad idea you shouldn’t fucking do it.
     
  9. Jin-E Well-Known Member

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    Technically, you are correct in your statement, but it's not like Trump implemented a right-wing fringe position. Everything indicates that this(or atleast the principle behind it) has strong bi-partisan backing from both parties.

     
  10. Megaharrison Eternal President of the Cafe Retired Staff

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    Hamas itself admits the vast majority of dead here were its own fighters, the rest were being used as meatshields. The real thing to take away here is how little Hamas values Palestinians. They want Israel to kill as many women and children as possible and actively try to get Israel to do this the best they can

    Weeks after , Hamas is now . They're desperate for Palestinians to suffer more so they can score propaganda points.
     
  11. Skaddix Well-Known Member

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    Yes indeed they totally forced Israel to pull those triggers...man you think they would have conquered Israel already with these amazing mind control abilities.
     
  12. Megaharrison Eternal President of the Cafe Retired Staff

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    What do you think Israel should do when thousands of Hamas fighters with human shields charge the border? Let our citizens die over that of the enemy because it'd be better PR? Unlike Hamas, we don't value what the Europeans think over the lives of our own people.

    Give me an answer. What should Israel have done in this scenario besides fight back.
     
  13. Skaddix Well-Known Member

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    Maybe they be less inclined to want to murder Israelis if Israel wasn't doing the same right back.

    Israel doesn't need PR as long as America is behind them.
     
  14. Megaharrison Eternal President of the Cafe Retired Staff

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    So no solution for what Israel should do in this situation. Just "don't kill them even if they kill you".
     
  15. Skaddix Well-Known Member

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    My point is your argument is predicated on Hamas striking first.
     
  16. Megaharrison Eternal President of the Cafe Retired Staff

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    Hamas said it was striking first
     
  17. Alita54 Alita>You

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    In yet we still got Trump shills here that think he should be getting a nobel peace prize. :skully
     
  18. SuperSaiyaMan12 The Seventh Hokage's arrived.

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    To me, its more than that. Ever since the Gaza War years ago, Israel's government has eroded nearly all the good will they had built up before. Netanyahu has becoming more and more authoritarian, his clashes against Obama have soured him a lot, and finally...these actions are showing he's no better than the likes of Assad at the end of the day. Having the IDF open fire on peaceful protestors? How does that not make Netanyahu look like the typical Middle Eastern despot?
     
  19. Rain nulla crux, nulla corona

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    Hamas didn't kill 50 unarmed protesters, Israel did.
     
  20. hcheng02 Well-Known Member

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    These "peaceful protesters" were attacking a military installation with molotov cocktails and bombs and started wild fires with kites. They had the explicit goal - which they announced before hand - that they were trying to break the barrier to attack Israelis on the other side. Thats not remotely peaceful.

    Secondly, there were actual armed Hamas militants mixed in with them. And according to announcements from a Hamas spokesmen, they were a majority of the people killed (50 out of the 62 people killed.) We've seen how actual Middle East despots handle similar riots and they end up killing hundreds if not thousands of civilians. What Netanyahu did was not remotely comparable.
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2018
  21. Megaharrison Eternal President of the Cafe Retired Staff

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    Thy weren't unarmed protesters. They were hamas fighters by hamas' own admission
     
  22. Yoshua #1 Kale Fan

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    To call the Hamas protestors "peaceful" is a bit of a false premise, considering you had a good number there with the intent to harm, seeing as they came armed with molotovs and such. On top of that, while it's tragic that a baby died in the exchange, I don't have much sympathy for anyone who has the heartlessness to bring a kid/baby to a protest, as it's obvious they were going to be used as a meatshield in case things got dicey.

    That said, I'm sure there was a better way they could've met the protestors, using actual live ammunition seems a bit over the top.
     
  23. baconbits SSL or nothing Super Moderator

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    They didn't agree it was a bad idea. Both presidents promised to move the embassy to Jerusalem and then failed to carry out their promise. Trump actually kept his campaign promise.
     
  24. Cardboard Tube Knight Well-Known Member

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    But you know it's more complex than that. Other Presidents got in office and realized it was a stupid promise and would cause more harm than good. It embolden's terrorists against the US and completely breaks down the peace process.
     
  25. baconbits SSL or nothing Super Moderator

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    How does it embolden terrorists? And what about it breaks down the peace process?
     
  26. Cardboard Tube Knight Well-Known Member

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    You mean how does us letting Israel murder protestors help these groups recruit more homegrown and anti-western Islamic extremists? Hmm, I don't know.

    And of course it breaks down the peace process. It's us taking a firm side that everyone else in the international community doesn't take.
     
  27. Edward Newgate 世界最強の男

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    :lmao

    UN is pretty much all about anti-Israel resolutions.
     
  28. Saishin Hajimemashite

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  29. Catalyst75 Well-Known Member

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    It doesn't give you any virtue points if you "keep a promise" when said "promise" leads to bad consequences.
     
  30. Roman Chariot

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    Well, thank the heavens that you're not a foreign affairs minister or something along those lines because you clearly have no sense of mediation or diplomacy.

    The fact that they didn't do it means they eventually realized it was a bad idea. What Trump has done only proves their reservations were correct in that it would lead to needless bloodshed.

    It's one thing to keep your promises, but it's another to make a promise and realize that promise isn't something that should be followed up on if it has negative repercussions. Trump has frequently displayed he doesn't seem to care about consequences tho, given that he still wants to build a wall despite so many saying it's economically unfeasible even if you have Mexico pay for it.
     
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