1. Welcome to the forums! Take a second to look at our Beginner's Guide. It contains the information necessary for you to have an easier experience here.

    Thanks and have fun. -NF staff
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Stop Scrolling!
    Attention - When discussing new chapters of an anime or manga, please use a source from the official list of approved sources. If you would like to contribute to the list, please do so in the suggestions section.
    Dismiss Notice
  3. Come join the RP Section for the monthly world (universe?) creation contest. This month's theme is space opera.

    So charge the hyperdrive, power up the plasma cannons, and set sail for new worlds!
    Dismiss Notice
  4. Check out the NF Awards! Nominate your favorite posters!
    Dismiss Notice
  5. The World Cup is about to begin, which means it’s time to start proudly repping your country. We’ve created a special new feature for you guys exclusively for this big event! Click here to learn more!!
    Dismiss Notice
  6. Check out the latest Newsletter!

    Click here
    Dismiss Notice
  7. The future of the Cafe Subsections is up to you. Vote here to make your voice heard!"

    Click here
    Dismiss Notice

Gaza clashes: Dozens killed ahead of US embassy opening in Jerusalem

Discussion in 'The NF Café' started by Jin-E, May 14, 2018.

  1. Megaharrison Eternal President of the Cafe Advisor

    Messages:
    21,185
    Likes Received:
    140
    Trophy Points:
    668
    Reputation:
    Hamas itself has confirmed 50 of the 60 dead were its members



    rly makes me think
     
  2. SoulTaker The Ever Living

    Messages:
    27,205
    Likes Received:
    611
    Trophy Points:
    818
    Reputation:
    Were the 8 children that got killed in the riots apart of Hamas as well or is it just acceptable collateral damage as well? I mean God forbid the people who want to claim the moral high ground actually act morally, completely acceptable of them to stoop to levels of detestability they stand against. Eye for an eye, am I right?
     
  3. Megaharrison Eternal President of the Cafe Advisor

    Messages:
    21,185
    Likes Received:
    140
    Trophy Points:
    668
    Reputation:
    Why was Hamas bringing teenagers to a warzone?
     
  4. Xhominid The Avaricious

    Messages:
    3,133
    Likes Received:
    349
    Trophy Points:
    163
    Reputation:
    This is primarily what I was talking about...
    It's hard to say if there's a clear winner, loser, evil, good and it's dumb to try and paint that towards those that are ultimately just religious fanatics fighting over some dirt.

    Innocents will ultimately die at the hands of those that go so extreme, that they will kill or oppose anyone that they see as an enemy or act so irrational that this happens.
     
  5. Cardboard Tube Knight Medic! Oh wait that is me

    Messages:
    57,748
    Likes Received:
    228
    Trophy Points:
    1,468
    Reputation:
    Israel’s basic attitude: It’s free real estate.
     
  6. baconbits Super Moderator

    Messages:
    17,923
    Likes Received:
    1,151
    Trophy Points:
    1,118
    Reputation:
    I don't think you're trying to look at this logically anymore. You need to ask yourself this: could anything be done that was pro-Israel where Palestinians wouldn't riot? Who brought these teens to the chaos and who benefits when they die? Who benefits from the deaths of these Palestinians? The pro-Israel side or the opposition?

    The answer to these questions are fairly obvious. First, the question of where the embassy should be placed should be made independently of how one side will react. To do anything differently is to give all the power to the Palestinians. They will know they can change any political decision if they riot hard enough or even threaten to do so. And Trump is hardly the first President to make this decision, only the first to keep his word on it.

    Second, it's clear Hamas brought these teens because they knew there was a chance they'd get killed and their deaths would benefit the Palestinian cause. Is that cynical? Certainly, but it's the same mode of thinking that sends young men strapped with bombs onto buses. There is a side to choose in this conflict and it isn't the Palestinians.
     
    • Dislike Dislike x 3
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Like Like x 1
    • List
  7. Skaddix Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    9,422
    Likes Received:
    336
    Trophy Points:
    414
    Reputation:
    Indeed 100% HAMAS fault no culpability for Israel and IDF whatsoever.

    Hamas brings some teens to protest and its their fault the IDF decided to shoot first and ask questions later.
     
  8. Cardboard Tube Knight Medic! Oh wait that is me

    Messages:
    57,748
    Likes Received:
    228
    Trophy Points:
    1,468
    Reputation:
    But just because they’re easily upset doesn’t make it okay to do something that most of the world and every previous president agreed was a bad idea.

    If Obama and Bush agreed it was a bad idea you shouldn’t fucking do it.
     
  9. Jin-E Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    13,309
    Likes Received:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    493
    Reputation:
    Technically, you are correct in your statement, but it's not like Trump implemented a right-wing fringe position. Everything indicates that this(or atleast the principle behind it) has strong bi-partisan backing from both parties.

     
  10. Megaharrison Eternal President of the Cafe Advisor

    Messages:
    21,185
    Likes Received:
    140
    Trophy Points:
    668
    Reputation:
    Hamas itself admits the vast majority of dead here were its own fighters, the rest were being used as meatshields. The real thing to take away here is how little Hamas values Palestinians. They want Israel to kill as many women and children as possible and actively try to get Israel to do this the best they can

    Weeks after , Hamas is now . They're desperate for Palestinians to suffer more so they can score propaganda points.
     
  11. Skaddix Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    9,422
    Likes Received:
    336
    Trophy Points:
    414
    Reputation:
    Yes indeed they totally forced Israel to pull those triggers...man you think they would have conquered Israel already with these amazing mind control abilities.
     
  12. Megaharrison Eternal President of the Cafe Advisor

    Messages:
    21,185
    Likes Received:
    140
    Trophy Points:
    668
    Reputation:
    What do you think Israel should do when thousands of Hamas fighters with human shields charge the border? Let our citizens die over that of the enemy because it'd be better PR? Unlike Hamas, we don't value what the Europeans think over the lives of our own people.

    Give me an answer. What should Israel have done in this scenario besides fight back.
     
  13. Skaddix Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    9,422
    Likes Received:
    336
    Trophy Points:
    414
    Reputation:
    Maybe they be less inclined to want to murder Israelis if Israel wasn't doing the same right back.

    Israel doesn't need PR as long as America is behind them.
     
  14. Megaharrison Eternal President of the Cafe Advisor

    Messages:
    21,185
    Likes Received:
    140
    Trophy Points:
    668
    Reputation:
    So no solution for what Israel should do in this situation. Just "don't kill them even if they kill you".
     
  15. Skaddix Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    9,422
    Likes Received:
    336
    Trophy Points:
    414
    Reputation:
    My point is your argument is predicated on Hamas striking first.
     
  16. Megaharrison Eternal President of the Cafe Advisor

    Messages:
    21,185
    Likes Received:
    140
    Trophy Points:
    668
    Reputation:
  17. Alita54 Alita>You

    Messages:
    7,129
    Likes Received:
    140
    Trophy Points:
    318
    Reputation:
    In yet we still got Trump shills here that think he should be getting a nobel peace prize. :skully
     
  18. SuperSaiyaMan12 The Seventh Hokage's arrived.

    Messages:
    22,022
    Likes Received:
    222
    Trophy Points:
    669
    Reputation:
    To me, its more than that. Ever since the Gaza War years ago, Israel's government has eroded nearly all the good will they had built up before. Netanyahu has becoming more and more authoritarian, his clashes against Obama have soured him a lot, and finally...these actions are showing he's no better than the likes of Assad at the end of the day. Having the IDF open fire on peaceful protestors? How does that not make Netanyahu look like the typical Middle Eastern despot?
     
  19. Rain drifting towards violence

    Messages:
    3,506
    Likes Received:
    81
    Trophy Points:
    229
    Flag:
    Costa Rica
    Hamas didn't kill 50 unarmed protesters, Israel did.
     
  20. hcheng02 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    8,548
    Likes Received:
    76
    Trophy Points:
    404
    Reputation:
    These "peaceful protesters" were attacking a military installation with molotov cocktails and bombs and started wild fires with kites. They had the explicit goal - which they announced before hand - that they were trying to break the barrier to attack Israelis on the other side. Thats not remotely peaceful.

    Secondly, there were actual armed Hamas militants mixed in with them. And according to announcements from a Hamas spokesmen, they were a majority of the people killed (50 out of the 62 people killed.) We've seen how actual Middle East despots handle similar riots and they end up killing hundreds if not thousands of civilians. What Netanyahu did was not remotely comparable.
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2018 at 9:38 AM
  21. Megaharrison Eternal President of the Cafe Advisor

    Messages:
    21,185
    Likes Received:
    140
    Trophy Points:
    668
    Reputation:
    Thy weren't unarmed protesters. They were hamas fighters by hamas' own admission
     
  22. Yoshua #1 Kale Fan

    Messages:
    4,255
    Likes Received:
    459
    Trophy Points:
    288
    Reputation:
    To call the Hamas protestors "peaceful" is a bit of a false premise, considering you had a good number there with the intent to harm, seeing as they came armed with molotovs and such. On top of that, while it's tragic that a baby died in the exchange, I don't have much sympathy for anyone who has the heartlessness to bring a kid/baby to a protest, as it's obvious they were going to be used as a meatshield in case things got dicey.

    That said, I'm sure there was a better way they could've met the protestors, using actual live ammunition seems a bit over the top.
     
  23. baconbits Super Moderator

    Messages:
    17,923
    Likes Received:
    1,151
    Trophy Points:
    1,118
    Reputation:
    They didn't agree it was a bad idea. Both presidents promised to move the embassy to Jerusalem and then failed to carry out their promise. Trump actually kept his campaign promise.
     
  24. Cardboard Tube Knight Medic! Oh wait that is me

    Messages:
    57,748
    Likes Received:
    228
    Trophy Points:
    1,468
    Reputation:
    But you know it's more complex than that. Other Presidents got in office and realized it was a stupid promise and would cause more harm than good. It embolden's terrorists against the US and completely breaks down the peace process.
     
  25. baconbits Super Moderator

    Messages:
    17,923
    Likes Received:
    1,151
    Trophy Points:
    1,118
    Reputation:
    How does it embolden terrorists? And what about it breaks down the peace process?
     
  26. Cardboard Tube Knight Medic! Oh wait that is me

    Messages:
    57,748
    Likes Received:
    228
    Trophy Points:
    1,468
    Reputation:
    You mean how does us letting Israel murder protestors help these groups recruit more homegrown and anti-western Islamic extremists? Hmm, I don't know.

    And of course it breaks down the peace process. It's us taking a firm side that everyone else in the international community doesn't take.
     
  27. Edward Newgate 世界最強の男

    Messages:
    20,151
    Likes Received:
    169
    Trophy Points:
    769
    Reputation:
    :lmao

    UN is pretty much all about anti-Israel resolutions.
     
  28. Saishin Hajimemashite

    Messages:
    14,628
    Likes Received:
    265
    Trophy Points:
    439
    Reputation:
  29. Catalyst75 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    14,371
    Likes Received:
    1,211
    Trophy Points:
    1,018
    Reputation:
    It doesn't give you any virtue points if you "keep a promise" when said "promise" leads to bad consequences.
     
  30. Roman Knight of the Wind

    Messages:
    21,633
    Likes Received:
    1,047
    Trophy Points:
    1,168
    Reputation:
    Catdank Faction:
    Well, thank the heavens that you're not a foreign affairs minister or something along those lines because you clearly have no sense of mediation or diplomacy.

    The fact that they didn't do it means they eventually realized it was a bad idea. What Trump has done only proves their reservations were correct in that it would lead to needless bloodshed.

    It's one thing to keep your promises, but it's another to make a promise and realize that promise isn't something that should be followed up on if it has negative repercussions. Trump has frequently displayed he doesn't seem to care about consequences tho, given that he still wants to build a wall despite so many saying it's economically unfeasible even if you have Mexico pay for it.
     

Share This Page

Loading...