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Global Rules Discussion

Discussion in 'The Konoha Times' started by Reznor, May 1, 2018.

  1. Reznor Well-Known Member Administrator

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    Background:
    We've gone through various stages of globalization of rules on NF. Giving every section mod sovereignty has historically caused problems. Trying to hybrid solutions of parent forums having consider rules within them was tried and failed.
    These reasons and recent issues have caused globalization to be the direction we plan on going.

    The following are tentative plans for new global rules:
    What is being proposed:
    We've have begun pushing for global modding. The intent is to reduce controversy and establish a consistent protocol in how rules are enforced, regardless of section. This streamlines the process of reacting to reports and complaints and takes a lot of personal proclivities out of the equation.

    Goals:
    Exceptions
    Exceptions to these rules should internal justification, not random ad hoc adjustments.
    For example, sexually explicit content isn't allowed in any public area. Bathhouse is an exception by merit of being a private section, rather than being an arbitrary exceptions.
    Off-topic controversial issues aren't allowed. Cafe is an exception by merit of controversy conceivable being on topic.

    Consistency over dependence on preferences of current moderator:
    Rules should exist in such a way that global staff needn't feel excess differences in how to handle issues in other sections.
    Although some subjectivity is needed, rules should be precise enough that the mod in power doesn't radically alter how rules are enforced in a section.​

    The Cafe has received numerous complaints over not cracking down on trolling, followed by allegedly breaking rules with occasional baiting.
    A few months ago the Readers Corner received a complaint for not banning/warning a user for insulting them.
    Before this there had been drama in the CB related to staff being too strict, or not strict at all.
    These controversies are symptoms, most would agree, of a problem of confusion and inconsistency with respect to how rules are enforced. Users often get mixed messages on what is and isn't okay.

    Proper modding of baiting/flaming/trolling:
    The Cafe is currently having issues with qualifies as baiting. Some would prefer that any opinion may be expressed, others would prefer action to be taken against users who use "political opinion" as a shield for expressing bigoted opinions.

    A majority of the staff is pushing towards this school of thought:

    Off topic racism/sexism/etc will always be disallowed.
    Whether or not it's derailing an NA thread about Ameratsu with "Sarada won't get MS since women are inferior" or it's derailing a Cafe thread about mail scams with "they feel for it because women are inferior", it's the same issue.
    If it's not germane, it's spam. If it's not germane and it's intentionally inflammatory, it's bait and measures need to be taken against it regardless of how they disguise it.

    The only exception that the Cafe should get here is that sexism/racism could potentially be on-topic. (See "Exceptions")
    In that event, however, the rules need to be made in a such a way that they are clear, not purely subjective and have clear guidelines for the moderators to follow about what shouldn't be allowed.
    This thread:

    This is an open invitation to give feedback and suggest changes to the rules.
    Please not that this thread is not a complaint thread or an opportunity to share individual greivances so much as to provide constructive advice towards fixing those issues.

    If you don't like that Mod X does/doesn't enforce flaming enough or that a member Y was banned or that troll Z wasn't, either address that issue in another thread or provide suggestions on rules that would make your desired outcome come about. This is not the place to ask us to remove Mod X, free member Y or ban troll Z, but a broader focus.

    If you want to chuckle and make commentary on the happenings of the thread, please do so in your convo thread of choose, rather than here.

    I would prefer to not have to read through counter productive posts, so violators will be promptly removed from the thread.
     
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  2. Vegeta Fuck Yeah!

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    Can you also set out a structure around warnings/bans that is logical and consistent throughout the forum.
     
  3. Reznor Well-Known Member Administrator

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    Hm, yeah, maybe that should be a goal too :thunk
     
  4. Vegeta Fuck Yeah!

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    I suggest:

    Warning, Final Warning, Ban. Two month cool down for reset ie warning -> 2 month later, warning -> 1.5 months -> final warning.

    Then after ban is lifted, user gets Final Warning, Ban. Two month cool down applies.

    2nd ban, duration increases.

    3rd ban, duration increases.

    So on and so forth. As a wise person once says, we should never ban because that means we failed as moderators. Except when people are trolls of the highest order of course.
     
  5. Vegeta Fuck Yeah!

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    Also to add, a standardised warning message which will prevent ambiguity. Some thing simple like:

    "In these posts: link link link you have violated global rule: rule number. This is a warning to prevent this behaviour from continuing. It will be in place for two months before it is dropped, however if you reoffend in the next two months it will escalate.

    Please reread the rules located here(link) and take note of the warning schedule within the rules."
     
  6. Grandpa Uchiha Who wants some of my Wood Release?

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    The only thing I disagree with this whole thing is it would kinda interfere with how some of us do mafia and shit we sometimes sling. I mean, if it does just gives me a reason to step away from it. Not that it matters what I say.

    :kermit
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2018
  7. Island In the Sun

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    Can you clarify this some more?

    I don't understand what constitutes "on-topic racism/sexism." The way this sentence is phrased implies that there are threads where "women/minorities are inferior" is appropriate.
     
  8. Mider T VM Rapist

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    My last ban was indicative if the interpretive nature of pronz.
     
  9. Reznor Well-Known Member Administrator

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    Off topic sexism is completely forbidden.
    On topic sexism is a short leash.

    A diplomatic post that minimizes offense I'd be fine with even if it swerved into sexism alittle bit. Like, if we were talking about women in the military and someone made an argument about women not being as aggressive or physical as men making it a bad idea, I'd believe should be allowed. "Women/minorities are inferior" however I believe would be longer than that lease.

    How long do you think that leash should be?
     
  10. Amol Chief of Wisdom

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    This might be actually a good thing.
    As a Cafe regular I am having whiplash of what is okay and what is not okay. We have been too used to cafe being a rough place .
    Baiting also needs to be given lot of attention. Few days ago I got banned for flaming a guy. I deserved that ban because I did flame him. But that guy was someone who was advocating tormenting little kids(and had advocated mass murder of children in past) . I thought that was baiting. Mod of section disagreed. Flaming in my part was directly result of my frustration at the fact that no action was taken against such psychopath because he wasn't 'technically' violating any rule. The way I saw that whole mess is that forum rules sucked big time.
    So you can see why I want better forum rules when it comes to baiting. Like you said in your own post ,not all opinions can be forgiven as 'political opinion'. That would only turn forum into a cesspool of depravity where you can talk literally anything as long as you do it 'politely'.
     
  11. Island In the Sun

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    My post in that SCR thread sums up my thoughts on the matter:

    In general, I think stuff about physicality is fine, but stuff about "women are naturally X mental attribute or prone to Y emotional behavior" is pushing it, especially if it's unsubstantiated.

    It's a hard rule to enforce I imagine since there are times when discussing differences is appropriate, but broadly, I don't think anyone should have to defend that their group is mentally, emotionally, or legally equal to others.

    So I guess to give you a specific answer, the leash ends when people make unsubstantiated claims about mental/emotional capacities or imply that one group should have less rights than others.
     
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