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Global Warming Thread, post ideas and opinions here, mostly objective.

Discussion in 'The NF Café' started by Ichhy-Chan, Oct 12, 2006.

  1. Ichhy-Chan Ken-Chan's buddy!

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    Well, okay, this is an issue which ahs come up many times, but i htink it's something that should still be talked about. Basically, post your ideas and evidence of/against Global Warming. I can predict a heated debate coming, but i will try to be as objective as possible. i might as well start this out.

    1. I do not beleive that Global Warming is real, but i do think that alot of you liberals who do think that ahve some good evidence, and we should try to be more enviromentaly careful in the future.

    2. i have a few peices of evidence for my opinion, I have deep religious beilefs that state that this is our world to use, and it can't be destroyed by our own usage. Also, in the end, when you really think about it, although scientists have found, i guess, "evidence":nuts that there really is no argument that can be proven without a shadow of a doubt. There is enviromental cahnges in the world that can change weather and climate which are natural. And most people blow Global Waarming WAY out of proportion, sure it seems dangerous, but it's not something that's going to kill liek a nuclear explosion, we could find ways to prevent it if it WAS true.

    okay, so just respond, post your opinion, debate, but please don't come up here and put up a dumb argument like LOLZ THE EVILZ LIBERALS ARRES TRYING TO FEAR SCARE BRAINWASHING US INTO LIBERALS, AND ARE GOINZ TO TAKE OVER HT EOWRLD, LOLZROTFLMAO.
    Just don't do that.
     
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  2. Giovanni Rild The mods are my enemy

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    Science has already proven that Global warming is real. Look at the uprise in hurricane activity and increase in temp.

    also think that the U.S should concentrate on making veichles that run on ethanol or other clean fuels, rather than keep looking for oil. And they should put more money to finding cleaner renweable sources of power
     
  3. Smoke ▄█▀ █▄ █▄█ ▀█▀

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    i disagree with starting post
    i agree with ig

    i believe global warming is very real, and i also believe that WE are to blame,
    and teh whole 'it's our world so we can't destroy it' idea, sure it seems nice, but it is so not true.

    anyways, i believe in globabl warming, and i believe we are teh cause.:)
     
  4. Hiiro Anencephalous Folderol

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    Global Warming is real but it's not our faults. If you do your research you'd see that the Earth goes through natural stages of temperature changes every few hundred thousand years. It's just a natural cycle, the earth freezes (Ice Age) then it heats up (Now) then it cool's down again. It's a re-occuring cycle, so don't freak it, the liberals just use Global Warming to scare people into buying there shit.
     
  5. Giovanni Rild The mods are my enemy

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    I really don't give a damn what politicans think on this subject. Only science can solve this problem.
     
  6. Louis-954 Well-Known Member

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    Soo you think that all the shit we throw into the water, and all the waste that flys up into the air from factorys/vehicles, and nuclear waste from past explosions, and cutting down all the trees that make our air pure, and burning up all the fossil fuel in our planet. isnt effecting our planet? Thats retarded if
    you really think about it. I dont see how one can be completely oblivious to it.

    Religion cant be used as "evidence" because it cant be proven true. Science however bases its findings on facts not faith. Only science can prove science wrong, because without conducting some sort of research/expirementation religion cant prove science wrong. Religion wont do that because they have "Faith" they dont need proof. Religon is ok for some because some provide comfort and reassurance that theres nothing wrong with what the human race and what were doing to the planet. When in reality when you open your eyes and look at how fucked up the world is, its really not ok.


    Heres a scientific outlook.


    Does global warming bother me? Not really ill probably be dead by the time it happens so im not trippin over it. My kids kids may feel the effect and I feel for them though.

    Even if it were to hit right now oh well. Nothing I can do about it.


    LMFAO HAHAHAHAH, a series of Natural disasters with power like weve never before seen and an Ice Age that would rush us from out of nowhere wouldnt kill? It would take out about 60% of the planets population. it would make a nuke look like a little bitch. Global warming has happened in the past, why cant it happen again? Were just speeding up the process with our bullshit.

    Yea we could prevent it, but sadly we have people like you who think "Its our planet to waste" and really dont give a shit about what they do to the enviorment. New Flash buddy, no one owns this planet. It was here before we existed and it will be here long after we are gone. We only live here till the landlord(earth) decides hes had enough and kicks us out.
     
  7. Amaretti No strong feelings whatsoever

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    AHAHAHA! :laugh

    Now tell me you don't think the sky is blue.

    So you think science is just trying to scare you? Snap out of it and wake up. The American government has been censoring reports of global warming. They don't want you to think or worry about it, because if you think and worry about it, they may be forced to actually do something about it. And that would just be expensive.

    Meanwhile the rest of the functioning world has accepted that how we're living is having a major affect on the environment. It's not debatable anymore. It's just a fact. I don't know where you get off pretending it's not happening when we're already witnessing the effects.

    Scientists know perfectly well that the earth's climate changes. You think they'd miss something as huge as that? The climate changes, but changes aren't supposed to take place this fast. The climate has never before had to deal with an enormous smog of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere, trapping heat and blocking the sun. It isn't natural. The changes aren't natural.

    I've already mentioned in another thread that the weather isn't just getting warmer, it's getting schitzophrenic. Only a few months ago, people a few miles south to me were getting heat waves so bad that people were dying all over the place, while at exactly the same time, people a few miles north were getting torrential rain and floods strong enough to carry away cars. And this country doesn't get hurricanes (at least not visible ones) at all, yet for the past two years we've been visited by some that were strong enough to actually turn over trees and houses. This has never been seen before.

    Scientists are already debating that Katrina was a direct result of unnatural climate development.

    It may give you a sense of safety and reassurance to deny global warming and pretend your religion will save you. But not this time. Global warming is a fact, and we have to own up to our responsibilities. We can't wantonly devour the environment anymore and smog up the air because future generations will have to live with the effects.

    The people who are still in denial tend to get laughed off stage at this point. It's just ridiculous that people can be so deluded.

    Go do some proper research. Scientists aren't just making it up. :notrust
     
  8. Louis-954 Well-Known Member

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    Amaretti how naive of you. Its our world to watse and there will be absolutely no consequence for fucking it up as much as we please. /end sarcasm
     
  9. Mat?icha アナル

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    global warming is real. i'm a geologist, so i know a lil about this stuff.
    my evidence is the sea-level rise. someone already mentioned that it is natural to melt ice-caps in the poles, yeah it is natural, but the speed it melts is very unnatural. it melts at higher rate than usual. just a lil proof. if the average temperature of earth rises by 1 celsius degree, the sea-level is gonna rise by 60 meter. can u imagine how devastating it could be, almost half of Europe could be flooded.
     
  10. Amaretti No strong feelings whatsoever

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    Ah. Do forgive my ignorance. :prostrate My only knowledge of environmental damage comes from science and documentaries and history books and scientists and the fact that when my dog pisses in the grass, it dies (the grass, not the dog).

    Clearly I lack... bible.
     
  11. The Space Cowboy Unfair, Unjust, Human

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    I really like this explanation for climate change
     
  12. Nizuma Eiji Na Na Na

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    just 2 say how could the world get flooded from global warming??? i mean hell water will evaporate at 90 something degress right??? And if its like 100+ degrees, wouldnt the water evaporate??? So instead of a flooded planet, wouldnt we have a barren wasteland for the earth.


    EDIT: Also i wonder if its possible to break of huge chunks of ice, from glaciers in the ocean, and sending it to space to just leave it there. o
     
  13. Amaretti No strong feelings whatsoever

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    I bet you could sell that to Hollywood and make a mint.
     
  14. Nizuma Eiji Na Na Na

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    lol yea. I probably could.
     
  15. Deathinstinct Member

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    Except that the farm equipment used to grow, harvest, and transport the corn used to make ethanol uses more or about the same energy as the ethanol produces. So your simply moving the pollution somewhere else.

    No it wouldn't.

    Water actually evaporates at all tempuratures, it boils at 100C. We are a LONG way from reaching anywhere close to that temperature. The highest recorded temperature was 56.4C in Death Valley in 1913. Source: Encyclopia Encarta. Even if we had that, the atmosphere can't hold an infinite amount of water, so the Earth would have constant storms or other methods of releasing the water.
    Sorry if you were joking.
     
  16. Razgriez Banned

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    Cars the run on water! We seriously need em!

    But still, they need to make them affordable and advertise it correctly so people will find interest in them. Plus it will take decades to phase out cars that run on gasoline and such.

    At the very least they could replace a lot of the powerplants that use oil wth alternative means such as Nuclear Power Plants and I know in my state they are thinking about building a wind power plant out in the ocean.

    I also say we should launce all this shit into space or launch it into the moon. That is probably the best place to throw our trash since its nothing but a barren rock and space is sooo huge.
     
  17. Nick Soapdish Because that's what he does

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    So don't use corn.

    Sugarcane is tons more efficient and would be cheaper if we weren't using all these price supports to protect the US sugar industry which is obviously an industry of vital importance that we remain self-sufficient in.

    Brazil started switching over to ethanol about 30 years ago because they had an inkling of the danger of being so dependent on oil, perhaps from the OPEC embargo. Now, they're pretty much self-sufficient in fuel.

    Now, Brazil needs a lot less fuel than the US and also has a much more favorable climate for growing sugar so it wouldn't work nearly as well in the US. And to work at all, we'd need to stop propping up the sugar barons and actually import sugar from other countries, like Cuba. And we could've spent some time and effort researching other alternatives. Instead, we let our fuel efficiency standards slide and didn't bother. That doesn't mean that we should stick to that strategy because the boat's sailed. For instance, switchgrass is supposed to be pretty promising and it might even still do ok in the Great Plains despite the rising temps and reduced water supply of the area.

    It's also a much less traumatic change than fuel cells. We already have diesel gas pumps all over the nation. Gas stations will just keep adding those and phasing out regular as biodiesel mixes become more common.

    Oh, and launching our trash out into space isn't terribly economical. It takes over 500,000 gallons of fuel to launch the shuttle and we're trying to keep weights down.
     
  18. Gray Wolf Active Member

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    Scientist can't even agree if global warming is actually happening.
     
  19. Nick Soapdish Because that's what he does

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    Even the Bush administration thinks that global warming is happening. They just dispute that it's caused by man.

    However, 90% of scientists think that it is and over 98% of climatologists. They aren't positive, but it's probably going to take another 30 years of data and improved modeling to be certain. Even then, I doubt that they'll be Certain.
     
  20. Jin-E Well-Known Member

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    Basically, i believe human involvement is part of the problem, but not the only variable. Remember, the earth frequently has shifted temperatures at times when no human was alive. So its a bit naive to think that if we suddenly cut out climate gasses we would be spared of temperature changes. In the long run we won't.

    It's likely a combination of natural changes which are further speeded up due to us poluting the environment
     
  21. Sho Active Member

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    Heh, it's funny because usually people who deny global warming are also people who seem to deny things such as pollution as well.

    I honestly can't see how people can deny something so glaringly obvious. I remember writing an essay on alternative fossil fuels, and it has a link to global warming since fossil fuels (the ones most people use currently, besides Brazil) make up a big portion of the greenhouse gases that pollute the air. Think that means nothing? Well the effects of greenhouses gases are numerous, but they include increases in the mean surface air temperature, increases in the mean rates of global precipitation, a rising sea level, and changes in the biosphere. Things like hurricanes, higher chance and accelerated rate of extinction for endangered species (like the Sinai baton blue butterfly), and melting icecaps are the result of this.

    I think basically the only real solution to deal with this is to switch to alternative fuel sources; however even with that, some things must be done first. First is that we need federal support well as big companies switching their attention solely to alternative fuel sourcing. Without that, it simply wouldn't be possible to get off the track we're on. Renewable energy makes up only 8% energy use in America, and only 2% world-wide, while fossil fuels make up most of America's energy sources, and it takes up to 30% world wide. There's a big discrepancy there which needs to be addressed.

    That also leads to a need for a strong infrastructure for renewable energy resources (which is once again impossible without strong federal+big company support). This is a problem once you consider how well-funded and politically strong-arm the oil companies and their cronies are (including the President and his buddies), and of course how they wouldn't want support for renewable resources. Still though, someday, something will force us to acknowledge that our dependency on fossil fuels is working against us (whether global warming+pollution, or the entanglements of foreign policy), and then we'll work to seek an alternative just like Brazil did. I'm pretty sure if there's a need for it, it can come about.
     
  22. Twizted Rest in the deep

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    Well I'm no scientist, but it was a fierce area of debate back when I was in college. My Geo class did a focus on it, and we came to no substantial or definitive conclusion. A large chunk of the class believed that it was real, and another large chunk of the class believed that the temperature increase is part of a proven natural cycle that happens to be in an upswing currently. That latter point is where I tend to lean. I think it's somewhat egomaniacal to believe that little old us can devastate the planet that we have so much trouble overcoming in other ways.

    That said, I'm sure that excessive greenhouse gasses and pollution isn't helping. I just don't think that these things are the cause of global temperature increase.
     
  23. Louis-954 Well-Known Member

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    Lets see, theres rougly 6 billion people on the planet. We are burning up oil at an alarming rate due to cars and what not. We are cutting down forests like there is no tomorrow(Trees and what not help purify the air). Factorys, Cars/Tricks/Nuclear Plants are emittting all that shit into the air. There are many smokers to so that shit is going into the air. All that shit is polluting the air, and breaking down the Ozone layer. A detiriorating Ozone layer = More UV Rays gets through the atmospehere, the more heat that gets through the faster our ice caps melt.

    We are also dumping alot of freshwater into the ocean, thats not a good combination.

    Newsflash buddy all that shit thats going into the air doesnt just dissappear, Matter can neither be created nor destroyed. Just because it dissappers doesnt mean its not there, its effecting the planet. The freshwater in the ocean, using all these fossil fuels, cutting down all these trees. That is taking effect, its only a matter of time before earth hits a critical point and reacts to it.

    So yea "Little old us"(6 billion strong) are having a major effect on the planet.
     
  24. Twizted Rest in the deep

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    lol, I meant that on a slightly more spiritual level. I realize that pollutants hurt the Earth, that's not what I mean. What I was getting at was that I think that the Earth is alot less fragile then we are made to believe. I think that what we've done in the past 200 years hasn't come close to hurting the planet in the ways we're talking about. I agree that it could theoretically in time, but I think that we're missing some very basic cycles here that explain why the Earth is heating up. And those cycles are not as a result of humans. According to my geo class, (I wish I still had the article but I don't) The Earth's temperature rises and falls in a cyclical nature, with one full wave length of 20,000 years give or take. This current temperature increase seems to coincide with the upswing of this wave. And given that our ability to accurately record such data has only come to us in the past 35 years, it's really premature to say that pollution has sped this process up, since we couldn't record this temperature increase accurately before there was heavy pollution. Suffice it to say though, that the temperature was noted as having increased for quite a few years now, even before heavy human pollution started happening during the industrial revolution. Farmers would note in such things as "the farmers almanac" that yearly and throughout the decades, they noticed temperature increases.
     
  25. Nick Soapdish Because that's what he does

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    But we can measure temperatures, even from before the latest warmup fairly accurately, although indirectly. And actually, the end of The Little Ice Age coincided pretty well with the dawning of the Industrial Revolution, although I haven't heard anyone besides myself attempt to attach the two phenomena together and even I concede that the matching times are aided by a number of massive volcanic eruptions early in the 1800s that cooled the global temperature. I also think that it's worth noting that The Little Ice Age was a western phenomenon and temperatures only cooled down over Europe and most of North America. Most of the world didn't cool down.

    As to whether or not, man is a contributing factor ...

    We know that CO2 is a greenhouse gas and absent other factors, an increase in CO2 warms up the planet. Meaning that unless there are other things that we are also doing to the environment or there is negative feedback, we are responsible.

    One of those other factors is other pollutants, such as particulates, because they reflect the sun's rays. So really heavy air pollution is actually good in that it cools the earth back down. But it's bad in that we choke on it and die. So ironically, the Clean Air Act seems to have contributed to global warming (although it also cut down on other greenhouse gases and had tons of other environmental benefits, such as not killing all the fish).

    As the CO2 concentration in the atmosphere increases, more of it is absorbed by the ocean which also helps slow global warming and threw off lots of the early models. It also changes the oceans pH and makes them more acidic so it's tougher for calcium carbonate organisms, such as mollusks and coral, to grow.

    Also, as temperatures increase, the atmosphere's ability to retain water increases. This increases cloud cover and can reflect more of the sun's rays out to space. But H2O is also a greenhouse gas and those clouds also bounce more of the sun's heat that makes it through back to the earth.

    Plus, the atmosphere is kinda complicated so any change in temperature is not going to be evenly distributed, either by geography or by season.

    All of these are part of why it's hard for scientists to exactly predict what the impact of CO2 and other greenhouse gas emissions are going to be. But models that have accurately "predicted" the temperature increases that we've already had, predict that temperatures will be increasing another 3-5 degrees F by 2100. (That's with two disclaimers - that I remember them correctly and that they haven't been updated since then because they're about 10 years old.)

    Also, we shouldn't forget that fossil fuels aren't the only source of CO2. Cutting down and burning the rain forests in the tropics is also a source and it's doubly tragic because rain forests are usually a carbon sink so it takes away a regulating mechanism while adding to the problem. But the rain forests themselves may wind up being insignificant as a carbon sink compared to the phytoplankton of the oceans. And we're busily working at screwing that up too.

    We can't destroy the planet. At least without using up a bunch of nukes. We can just make it unliveable for us, but in 100 million years, the descendents of rats and rabbits and the like will have evolved to fill in most of the niches of the new ecology and it'll probably be as diverse as the one we have today.
     
  26. Seelas on a Forums Break

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    The boiling point of water is 212 degrees, so no. Also one of the reasons global warming can cause mass floods because once the temperatures reach a certain point the polar ice caps will melt, causing sea levels to rise. It's already starting to happen, in fact.

    Anyways I consider global warming to be one of, if not the most, important issues today. People laugh and call you a liberal hippie for making a statement like that but really, there's nothing laughable about the possibility of dying of heat exhaustion within your lifetime - and if not you, your children. This is the whole world we're talking about, not some dispute between a few countries or between people of different religions or idiologies. Global warming fucks over everyone.

    And if you still deny that global warming is real - please read up. You're just wrong.
     
  27. Deathinstinct Member

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    You need to look up the defintion of "heat exhaustion".

     
  28. Louis-954 Well-Known Member

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    Yea you keep telling yourself that, w/e makes you sleep at night. Its been going on for alot longer than 200 years, you need to take into account the deforesterization and minor polluntants of past generations, along with natural causes that have been taking place over the past god knows how many years since the last ice age. We are very close to hitting a critical point.
     
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