1. Ohara Library Banner Contest

    The Beasts Pirates demand your services.
    Join the OL Banner Contest!
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Welcome to the forums! Take a second to look at our Beginner's Guide. It contains the information necessary for you to have an easier experience here.

    Thanks and have fun. -NF staff
    Dismiss Notice
  3. Winter is coming one last time...

    Dismiss Notice
  4. Come enter in the KCC Cooking Contest!

    Dismiss Notice
  5. Some Pokémon went missing during Easter time. Please, help us to solve this case. Check Detective Pikachu and the Eggstravaganza Case.

    Dismiss Notice
  6. The Anime Awards of 2018 have started! Click here to see the post!

    Dismiss Notice

Haku's bloodline limit in question...lol

Discussion in 'Konoha Library Archives' started by dummy plug, Oct 4, 2006.

  1. dummy plug ♥Jiyeon Boing Boing♥

    Messages:
    16,336
    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    643
    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2006
    Yo guys...you see, i read the manga where in yamato and kakashi told naruto that the mokuton is a bloodline limit because it combines doton and suiton...they also said that haku's jutsu is a bloodline because it combines wind and suiton...

    whoa whoa whoa, lemme guess this straight, so you have to be in the same clan to posses that bloodline right? how come those assholes at snowcountry(naruto movie 1) summons ice monsters and other ice-jutsus at will? what was that all about?

    either they are related to haku's clan(which i doubt) or its another damn inconsistency in the series...waddya think?

    also, i dont know is someone already posted the same topic lol...

    enlighten me pls but dont post shitty answers...lol
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2006
    Tags:
  2. chionophile Member

    Messages:
    145
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2006
    Movie = not canon. That's basically all it comes down to. Either that, or Kishi hadn't decided how to define some forms of bloodline limits at the time of the first movie and said it was okay.

    (also, try to learn to spell properly. I understand it's "cool" to type like that, but it's also annoying)
     
  3. choinkees Mini-Nyuubi

    Messages:
    127
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2006
    Haku's bloodline limit was the Ice Mirrors thing - trapping the victim inside a dome of mirrors made of ice that Haku could jump between.
    Haku combines chakra types to create it, but there are heaps more snow/ice techniques than just Ice Mirrors.

    The first Naruto movie was set in a place named "Snow Country"... so it's only appropriate that the ninja there are able to perform snow and ice techniques. They can't do Ice Mirrors like Haku, but they can use their chakra in other ways to do different cold techniques.
     
  4. Dark Uchiha Already Home

    Messages:
    12,358
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2004
    because naruto movies are a 90min or so giant filler, cause no way that movie can be placed in the manga timeline.
     
  5. RAGING BONER Sexual Tyrannosaurus

    Messages:
    23,875
    Likes Received:
    639
    Trophy Points:
    1,044
    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2005
    no...Ice jutsu = wood jutsu.

    both are derived from 2 other elements thus making them bloodline elements.

    Demonic Ice mirrors was simply a secret jutsu Haku developed using his bloodline ability to control ice.

    the movie = crap...its not Kishimoto's work and he has no say in it.
     
  6. Shidoshi Cross Marian: Ninjai's Father

    Messages:
    5,043
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    594
    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2004
    The Naruto movies exist outside of the established manga guidelines.

    For example, Kakashi said he was unable to combine Fuuton (wind) and Suiton (water) simultaneously to create "Hyouton" (ice), which was why he couldn't copy Haku's ice mirrors, but in the movie, he copies and performs a "Hyouton" whale ninjutsu.

    Before the retcon, Haku's bloodline limit was his ability to travel in his ice mirrors like he does.

    Now, with the retcon, his bloodline limit is apparently the ability to create the "Ice" element with the Wind and Water nature combination, as well as physically travel in ice itself.
     
  7. Sterling Archer Formerly @MasterHiko

    Messages:
    393
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2006
    i personally think the whole' if you combine two elements, its a bloodline' concept is bullshit. more proof kishi doesnt know wtf he's doing too often. thats like being mexican but if you speak with a hindu accent and throw a red dot on your forehead your Indian. bloodline = skill/trait possesed and passed down through lineage. doing something really really hard doesnt make it a BL. i hate kishi for that line.
     
  8. Captain Gir Spiral Warrior

    Messages:
    7,485
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2006
    ok a question about it myself....TSUNADE is the granddaughter of Shodaime right? then why doesnt she have the bloodline?? and earth and water=mokuton;water and wind=ice....what about kimimaro?? and from the first movie, they manipulated the water/snow..not ice......

    if that is just a few bloodlines based on the elements, then what about the other, like if u were to combine fire and lighning or something?? just a thought
     
  9. omg laser pew pew! is feeling greedy

    Messages:
    18,499
    Likes Received:
    19
    Trophy Points:
    493
    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2006
    Because mokuton isn't a bloodline ability

    It's genetic or something like that
     
  10. Shidoshi Cross Marian: Ninjai's Father

    Messages:
    5,043
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    594
    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2004
    Ummm...bloodline abilities are defined by being genetically granted gifts...
     
  11. omg laser pew pew! is feeling greedy

    Messages:
    18,499
    Likes Received:
    19
    Trophy Points:
    493
    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2006
    Well it was something to do with Shodai's genes or something but it was different from a bloodline
     
  12. Sasouke Raikiri ftw

    Messages:
    190
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2005
    It was only different because he was probably the first of that new "bloodline" and he had no succesors that inherited that bloodline. Since nobody inherited it it cant be a bloodline. Since he was the only one. That is the only differense.
     
  13. dummy plug ♥Jiyeon Boing Boing♥

    Messages:
    16,336
    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    643
    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2006
    ^^ the manga said dat shodai's mokuton is a bloodlinelimit so therefore tsunade must also posses it...yamato was able to do mokuton coz he has shodai's cell...shodai never taught yamato nor tsunade the mokuton jutsu, so why d hell would yamato perform it and tsunade cnt? another inconsistency eh? lol...also, dis is my way of typin, no one cn dictate me how to type...if u think dis kind of typin style is annoyin, den dats ure problem Mr. Chionophile...
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2006
  14. John Connor Lightning Tiger

    Messages:
    7,595
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2006
    its not a bloodline limit because they specifically said it was the 1st hokages alone. if his children our grandchildren inherited it it would be a BLOODLINE
     
  15. B.o.t.i Active Member

    Messages:
    12,142
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2005
    Yep thats how I see it ice element does not belong to haku's clan.
    The ice box & ice traveling move are haku's bloodlimit moves.

    Not that ice element belong to haku's clan considering ice ain't really an element its a mixture of 2 elements wind/air & water.

    Its just that the ice box move & the ice travelling are in haku's bloodline basically personilized/advance ice moves.Ice as a whole don't belong to haku's clan.

    As for mokuton we know about this ,but me personally I don't think its strictly shodai someone out there may have the ability to fuse earth & water.

    There's no proper answer to how one can fuse 2 elements except its a bloodline<<which just seems weak to me I don't know man could be wrong.
     
  16. Dark Uchiha Already Home

    Messages:
    12,358
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2004
    as we see there are some bloodlines that carry onto others and some not,
    all hyuuga have byakugen
    some uchihas had sharingan
    in hakus past his mother thought it might have skipped him or prayed it did
    so all i can say is perhaps the child of tsunade would have the bloodline of the first... but thats pretty much shot to hell.... 50 yr old giving birth yea... riiight
    what the first had was a weak bloodline, not saying the move was weak its just that it doesnt pass down the generations

    i believe your wrong
    blood line blood line techs
    sharingan bloodline = M.S, tsukyomi, ameratsu
    byukagen bloodline = jyuuken, kaiten, 64 strikes
    ice element bloodline = demonic ice mirrors
    wood element bloodline = killer giraffes
     
  17. alaysian New Member

    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2005
    what about the 5 element seal? Does it take all 5 elements? one on each finger? if so, is that a blood line move or what
     
  18. Dark Uchiha Already Home

    Messages:
    12,358
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2004
    dont see how since there not merged in a sense to make a new element
    that move had each element seperate
    yamato said he make water wit the right and earth with the left, that doesnt make wood untill he merges it percisly
    along those lines
     
  19. Naruko Supporting Staff

    Messages:
    29,729
    Likes Received:
    40
    Trophy Points:
    755
    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2006
    This is true, but it doesn't guarantee every descendant will inherit the ability. Even when Sasuke first see's Kakashi's sharingan, he wonders to himself how that can be since the sharingan only appears in a rare select few of his own Uchiha clan. Being an uchiha by no means guarantees you will have/get the sharingan. Similarly we might see wood moukuton appear in shodaimes bloodline someday, perhaps, but there is no guarantee of it.
     
  20. Twicks Needs a Tuba

    Messages:
    62
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2006
    Ok. If you want some kind of explanation of how Haku's ability could be a bloodline, while the Snow-nins don't have it... (thought it's a little useless to try to make the filler/movies fit into the canon). The snow-nins live in a cold country, and maybe they need only water to make ice. The naturally below-freezing temps of the air makes it into ice, without them needing to incorporate the wind element can do the rest. If they were in Hawaii, maybe they'd be SoL, while Haku would be loading up his Mai Tai with homemade ice.

    Also, the manga suggests that ice itself is a bloodline, not just the mirrors. Remember how Haku killed his father with giant ice spikes? Or how his mom freaked out when Haku was making that little ice sculpture outside?
     
  21. Lunchin15 0_o

    Messages:
    705
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Joined:
    May 9, 2006
    It's too early in the morning for me to try and explain stuff to stupid people. Go search in HoU, there are a few thread in there explaining this same question.
     
  22. blazingshadow True Wind Rune

    Messages:
    6,390
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2005
    that was filler as well. haku's mom was never shown in the manga

    man i already explained how a bloodline like haku's exists and why mokuton doesn't need to be inherited by everyone to be "bloodline" limit that was never passed on.

    hyouton and mokuton are the byproducts of having 2 ELEMENTAL AFFINITIES as opposed of the normal one affinity per person or family. to haku having 2 affinities gives him the ability to naturally learn wind and water elements easily + the ability to understand them enough to combine them into a new element. it's like a child being born with 4 fully functional arms, he will be able to do things normal ppl can't do because he was born with an advantage over other ppl and has trained to use that advantage to it's fullest

    mokuton didn't pass on but it is safe to assume that nidaime had a water elemental affinity him being family of the shodai. tsunade might not have mokuton but then again it could just be that the bloodline is like the sharingan and it only appears to some family members and even then they need a trigger to awaken it
     
  23. choinkees Mini-Nyuubi

    Messages:
    127
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2006
    Yeah, it's like having red hair... it's in the blood, but it's more likely that your grandchild will be a redhead rather than your own child - some things skip a generation or two.
     
  24. Captain Gir Spiral Warrior

    Messages:
    7,485
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2006
    here are 3 pages of chapter 316 explaining it pg 6-8

    Spoiler:


    Spoiler:


    Spoiler:
     
  25. dummy plug ♥Jiyeon Boing Boing♥

    Messages:
    16,336
    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    643
    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2006
    ^^^the manga sed dat haku's ice jutsu is a bloodlinelimit, not the ice mirror alone...the act of combining two elements to form one new jutsu issedto b bloodline limit...
     
  26. Captain Gir Spiral Warrior

    Messages:
    7,485
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2006
    yes!! and also so is mokuton...then wat about tsunade?? and i went back and watched the first movie yesterday..how can those people use ice release when its hakus kekki genkai?
     
  27. Kiyoshi The Former Avatarless

    Messages:
    1,810
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2004
    Despite the fanwanking going on, we now know Ice is a bloodline limit and Mokuton is such a limit (A technique that can't be copied or used by anyone else? Hello?!). Keep in mind, these involve affinities.

    Sakura explained early on there were five chakra types that combine to form most jutsu. These most likely make up the base/normal jutsu.

    Having affinity is probably like having an inate skill/gift/desire for an element. Think of it in terms of technology. Anyone can use a computer or a car, and in theory with enough practice anyone could make/design either but it wouldn't appeal to most at the effort level. But those with an engineering "affinity" would find it much much easier for cars and technology "affinity" for designing a computer from scratch. This could explain the Sharingan copying any of the five elemental types, since I'm surprised no one brought this up, despite the two affinities being mentioned. An affinity user creates the new things (or someone who worked hard), but anyone can simply use these tools.

    The Car and Computer analogy for explaining Bloodlimits. Name an engineer who is only gifted in building the machines without control or a computer expert with virtually no knowledge of how a car works besides driving one who could build a full sized robotic car? Such a think would require a person or people with a Engineering and Computer affinity, and even then if just having these both were easy we'd have them already in RL. It takes more than just having the right affinities to provide a bloodlimit, but a perception of both.

    At least that is what I got from the manga on explaining them. As for the movie, I didn't see it. There are actually two explanations that can occur here:

    A, the cop out explanation: They have bloodline limits, or at least some did.

    Zabuza: I know for a fact Haku is the only Ice user left in the world!

    Likely hood? Not really, perhaps the only one to use it like he did, but there might be another group. There are probably 25 or so combination of the 5 elemental jutsus.

    Con: Kakashi copied an ice jutsu, so see explanation 2.

    B, more likely: Ice imitation jutsu

    If the "ice" users were Water and Wind affinitied, they might have a chance at imitating ice elemental. Think back to the robotic, read as autonmous, car. If they have affinities in both, or lacking in one, could create with lesser difficulty a remote control life sized car that works on similiar principals.

    If Naruto tapped into his latent wind powers and send a large wind powered snow drift, ala Gaara with Sand, towards his foes would this be an ice attack? No, maybe, it would be freezing and seem like an ice attack and for all purposes might as well be ice. Still, it is at the mechanics an wind attack. If they use their water affinity to create an ice block and seperately the wind to move/control it they could mimic a true Ice Jutsu. This would be using two elementals at the same time, but since Kakashi implies combining them together, which this isn't, makes the bloodline limit this lacks that threshold to become such. Thus this is a jutsu Kakashi could copy.
     
  28. Vox wub wub wub

    Messages:
    1,514
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2006
    It does have anything to do with the temperature. Kakashi used a water jutsu without it freezing. More likely than not Ice Manipulation was a bloodline limit all in its own.

    Even more sense Movie = Non-Canon, so they can basically do whatever they want to...
     
  29. dummy plug ♥Jiyeon Boing Boing♥

    Messages:
    16,336
    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    643
    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2006
    i guess it was only a "bug" dat they ddnt thought about...lol
     
  30. Velessa Violent Princess

    Messages:
    280
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2005
    Shodai's/Yamato's mokuton is probably equivalent to Sandaime Kazekage's Iron Sand, an ability that appeared once and did not manifest itself in any offspring.
     
Loading...