How are each member of the Sannin portrayed from weakest to strongest?

[FlamingRain]

@FlamingRain

They didn't all do similarly well -especially considering that 3 out of 4 only managed to do what they did because Tsunade shared her Chakra with them- but I've said for a long while the forum overestimates the difference between tiers so...

 

[Lyren]

) Tsunade got pierced by Madara Susanoo; she would also loose if stabbed by Totosuka sword which is what beat Orochimaru

Itachi didnt need Totsuka to defeat Orochimaru in their first round tho
And Tsunade was stabbed because Madara clonefeinted the kages with a mokubunshin from underground the first time and becaushe was outnumbred against a set of 5 V3 susanos the second time, raikage even says her fightning just started getting sloppy when whe got stabbed which means it wasnt happening for hours off panel, now do you really think a single Itachi will be able to tag her?

2) Edo Hiruzen who is <= Old Hiruzen has feats against Juubito, Shinju, and Buddha. You seem to just be underrating Old Hiruzen

But Orochimaru scales to Old Hiruzen and the sannin do as well by extension so its transferrable to them as well
What matters is when Orochimaru confronted Hiruzen himself, he said that the latter was disappointing.

3) It wasn’t just infiltration and spying he only got as far as he did by fighting Pain

Yes he is better suitted at fightning while gathering intel in a place like Amegakure
But hey, Fukasaku says that while completely unaware of Tsunade powers (mainly byakugo-sozo saisei) so why do you take his word for granted and not Chozas?
Tsunade at that time didnt have knowledge on Pain either so her silence is a moot point.
She also didnt say anything when Jiraiya admitted she was unparalleled in combat

So if Tsunade can’t beat Pain with intel;

Thats baseless tho?
Tsunade always lacked proper intel when fightning Pain to gauge her chances against him
She took on 5 Madaras clones with a rinnegan after all in the WA

as the Susanoo can’t destroy one Sannin and not another stat wise;

Im not saying they will get utterly destroyed against susano lol, except for Orochimarus case by feats.

5) Tsunade lost to Madara so clearly she isn’t, if your going to use that context.

Because Madara was that strong not because she didnt live up to the hype as i explained earlier

And you can’t use the same for Tsunade because again if Tsunade stats were way above the other Base Sannin they couldn’t be relative.

She wasnt "way above" them but still above based on Jmans statement

 

[Lyren]

But all the other 4 kages also 'took on' 5 susano clones lol

By that metric you'd have to say all 5 members of the Gokage also did anything that shits on >Jiraiya/Oro

How would you feel about THAT?

Gaara and Mei were losing badly and didnt do any damage to the clones
Raikage was just stalling with his speed
Tsunade was the only one equally trading blows with her set of susano
So the other kages performance doesnt necessarly put them above Jiraiya at least as he would perform better than them given his skillset

 

[Turrin]

Yes , her strength , healing , and stamina not only allowed her to hold her own against them but she was also able to drop a legged Susanoo clone with her punch . You didn't answer my question though . How is Jiraiya or Oro going to handle them like Tsunade did ? Outside of ABC logic .

She fares better against the clones as the healing she gets is enough to allow her to survive 4 susanoo swords embedded in her torso , while her strength was enough to drop a legged susanoo clone with a punch , and while she had those swords shoved in her stomach .

And ABC logic doesn't work in all cases .

Minato for example has vastly superior feats and portrayal in comparison to A3 , but would still lose to him as he simply can't destroy his raiton armor and would get outlasted . Unless you think his kunai slash hits harder than an FRS which failed to destroy it .

Someone like Obito who lost to Minato will easily stomp A3 as he can just warp him off to boxland , Obito doesn't have to damage him and A3's blitz attempts are countered by Kamui intangibility .

So you are wrong on this one , ABC logic doesn't always work .

I've never said the 6 paths of pain at full power would get fodderized by 5 Susanoo clones . I said SM Naruto would lose to them . And besides , taking only on 3 Paths of Pain than 6 of them is much easier . SM Naruto had a harder time in the beginning since only Deva wasn't at full power , whereas Jiraiya was struggling against 3 .

However , the 3 Paths of Pain that pressured Jiraiya will in fact get destroyed by the legged Susanoo clones . The Preta Path is useless against them since the clones don't use any long rage Jutsu while a legged Susanoo slash from 1 clone will easily take it out . The Human Path is a literal non - factor as it can't even reach the clones before getting neg diffed by its slash and lacks any long-distance pressure , while the Animal Path's summons can be taken out very easily except for Cerberus . But the Cerberus is no match for 5 Legged Susanoo clones , so 2 can distract the dog while the other 3 will take out the Path directly .

Also , unless you prove Cerberus hits as hard as Tsunade who managed to put down a legged Susanoo clone , then Cerberus might be a non - factor here as well . Or the 5 Legged Susanoo clones can go after the Paths directly .


Because again , you are using flawed abc logic here .

Provide some of the scenarios or arguments on how Oro , Jiraiya , and Hiruzen would perform equally to Tsunade against them .

Outside of using ABC logic .

Well , Pain didn't use CST or CT , and let him retreat . I know , the fight took place in Amegakure and Pain wouldn't have wanted to damage the infrastructure , but he was still limiting himself , thus , holding back .

And this counts .

1) Dude Orochimaru can survive being stabbed with the swords too; so your entire premise for Tsunade being a better match then him due Regen for the Susanoo doesn’t make sense

2) Minato seals Ei3’s ass

3) Orochimaru goes Hydra and thanks their attacks the same as Tsunade and can smash them to the ground with hydra strength or he summons Edos who can Regen their attacks.

We can talk about Jiriaya and Hiruzen too but first I’m going to cover Orochimaru

4) Sure if you want to define Pain not using his Triumph card as holding back then I can steelman that as I don’t really care. I don’t see how this helps your premise

 

[ObitoOfTheOrangeMask]

1) Dude Orochimaru can survive being stabbed with the swords too; so your entire premise for Tsunade being a better match then him due Regen for the Susanoo doesn’t make sense

He may survive , but he lacks the strength or combat power outside of his summons to drop down a Susanoo clone . So it's your premise which doesn't make sense .

2) Minato seals Ei3’s ass

Minato has never shown to be able to seal people , maybe with the exception of Shiki fujin which will result in his death . Then you will have to prove Minato can seal A3 without it .

And if you are referring to shiki fujin , it's not gonna work since A3 will not stop his pressure on Minato , and won't allow him to use it .

At worst , it will result in a stalemate , and Minato practically stalemated an opponent whom Obito would easily beat , despite the fact that Obito lost to Minato .

And this is why your ABC logic fails here .

3) Orochimaru goes Hydra and thanks their attacks the same as Tsunade and can smash them to the ground with hydra strength or he summons Edos who can Regen their attacks.

Hydra could not even flinch a dying Itachi's V4 , lost its heads against it , and was negged shortly afterward . A legged Susanoo is going to stomp it considering it's above V4 in power and strength .

We can talk about Jiriaya and Hiruzen too but first I’m going to cover Orochimaru

Ok , talk about Jiraiya and Hiruzen , and outside of their summons .

Your Hydra Orochimaru argument doesn't make sense as it couldn't put down a vastly inferior Susanoo .

4) Sure if you want to define Pain not using his Triumph card as holding back then I can steelman that as I don’t really care. I don’t see how this helps your premise

It does actually , he could have stomped Jiraiya from the beginning with it , and it also counts as holding back .

 

[Aegon Targaryen]

Minato for example has vastly superior feats and portrayal in comparison to A3 , but would still lose to him as he simply can't destroy his raiton armor and would get outlasted . Unless you think his kunai slash hits harder than an FRS which failed to destroy it .

Someone like Obito who lost to Minato will easily stomp A3 as he can just warp him off to boxland , Obito doesn't have to damage him and A3's blitz attempts are countered by Kamui intangibility .

Minato can trap Ay3 like he trapped 50% of Kurama chakra.

 

[ObitoOfTheOrangeMask]

Minato can trap Ay3 like he trapped 50% of Kurama chakra.

With shiki fujin ?

 

[New Folder]

Oro is by far the weakest Sannin. (NO ET)

I would say he is at least a tier lower than the other 2.

unless we count ET, then he is by far the strongest one.

 

[Santoryu]

Gaara and Mei were losing badly and didnt do any damage to the clones
Raikage was just stalling with his speed
Tsunade was the only one equally trading blows with her set of susano
So the other kages performance doesnt necessarly put them above Jiraiya at least as he would perform better than them given his skillset

They were all losing badly?

Mei, yes is the first one to fall: at this moment, Gaara, is seen distracted by Mei's imminent demise so he jeopardises his attention and still successfully guards (his most prominent talent) again against a simultaneous attack from 4* Susano clones and looks as if he still manages to assist Mei





Tsunade punching down a clone (her most prominent talent minus healing), while impressive, is criticised for her fighting style and then falls down the next page:


In what world, is this showing significantly better than what Gaara did? If your only metric is landing a non-fatal hit, this is a bigger problem than I thought it was.

You downplay A4's showing because he used his speed (his prominent talent) to be the second last to go down in order to 'stall'. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems as if that's something all of them were doing prior to Onoki's intervention. They were being played around like pet food.

At best, you can say Tsunade's on panel showing was significantly better than Mei's in that particular situation.

 

[Santoryu]

ffs
my scans didnt link to the right page

well w/e
re-read the chapter

 

[Mawt]

They were all losing badly?

Mei, yes is the first one to fall: at this moment, Gaara, is seen distracted by Mei's imminent demise so he jeopardises his attention and still successfully guards (his most prominent talent) again against a simultaneous attack from 4* Susano clones and looks as if he still manages to assist Mei





Tsunade punching down a clone (her most prominent talent minus healing), while impressive, is criticised for her fighting style and then falls down the next page:


In what world, is this showing significantly better than what Gaara did? If your only metric is landing a non-fatal hit, this is a bigger problem than I thought it was.

You downplay A4's showing because he used his speed (his prominent talent) to be the second last to go down in order to 'stall'. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems as if that's something all of them were doing prior to Onoki's intervention. They were being played around like pet food.

At best, you can say Tsunade's on panel showing was significantly better than Mei's in that particular situation.

Careers x2

 

[Aegon Targaryen]

With shiki fujin ?

Nah, 8 trigram.

 

[~Kakashi~]

Tsunade admits inferiority to SM Jiraiya iirc, and to me that lines up with how the feats portray them too.

Overall I have them all on the same level, so Tsunade = Orochimaru = Jiraiya.

Counting in SM, it becomes SM Jiraiya > Tsunade = Orochimaru. The difficulty I have putting Jiraiya over both even starting in base is I dunno if he reaches SM against fighters of Tsunade and Orochimaru's level pressuring him.

ET for Orochimaru obviously allows him to dumpster both, but I don't count that. I guess should also stipulate I'm not entirely sure what taking over Zetsu's body grants him in terms of abilities and etc, but it's possible that might allow him to surpass Tsunade and Jiraiya as well I suppose.

 

[Mad Scientist]

The portrayal of the Sannin was that they were equals.

With the onset of Edo Tensei, Sage Mode and Ninpō Sōzō Saisei — Byakugō no Jutsu, powers that would be part of their main feature yet none of them had before being hailed, their levels became more debatable. Even so, I'd still say that each Sannin with access to these powers are relatively equal. Jiraiya and Orochimaru goes without saying; the problem people seem to have is with Tsunade, though apparently the downplay has been alleviated in recent times, according to the poll in my thread:

[Discuss]
Tsunade is every bit a match for Jiraiya and Orochimaru


1. Stated to be on their level (Thanks to @AmitDS for many points)



“A lonely blossom that flowered in Konoha! Tsunade is the strongest Kunoichi in Konoha history, every bit a match for Jiraiya and Orochimaru. Her whereabouts – indeed, her survival – are currently a mystery, but her name blossoms in the noble inclusion of the shinobi.”

- The Naruto Secret: Scroll of Soldiers Official Fanbook by Masashi Kishimoto



The Naruto Secret: Scroll of Soldiers Official Fanbook (NARUTO -ナルト-秘伝・兵の書 オフィシャルファンBOOK, NARUTO Hiden: Hyō no Sho Ofisharu FanBOOK) is the second of the supplementary guidebooks on the series authored by . It is the first of two fanbooks.

2. Portrayed on the same level — why else would they be called the "Legendary Three Ninja"?


3. Their power increases "thrice fold" when they're all fighting together + suggestion that the Sannin are in a league of their own.


"...Strength

Explosive spirit and unique power!

Jiraya’s manly fighting valor, Orochimaru’s individual talents, Tsunade’s monster power and supreme knowledge of medical jutsus. During fights, their skills would increase thrice fold and create stories of great battlefield deeds. Especially, places of battle where the three fought together were their own stage. Stories of their battlefield deeds have evolved into legends. As there will no longer be days when the three will fight alongside each other, the flower of their legend is the more dazzling.
Jiraiya: Serious but deadly eyes! Are the only ones who can fight against the Sannin the Sannin themselves?
Tsunade: Her power is like that of a god of war.
Orochimaru: Like a reflection of his way of life, his fighting skills are cruel to the extreme..."

-Databook 2

4. Tsunade kept up with Jiraiya and Orochimaru when they fought against Hanzo (it was in fact Jiraiya that looked most concerned and in need of help compared to the other two).



5. Tsunade stated to be in the same boat as the other Sannin.




6. Was noted to be a living legend by P1 Kabuto, despite her rustiness.



7. The 2nd most impressive combatant in the fight against Madara Uchiha.






8. Prepared to take on the Raikage despite knowing full well that he was faster than even KCM Naruto (A4 literally near-blitzed KCM Naruto 4 times before she stepped in... and why not? She proved she could keep up with V1/V1+ A4 against Madara just fine.)





9. Tsunade is portrayed as a monster.





10. Jiraiya states Tsunade is a better Hokage than him.



11. Ebisu implies the Sannin are a match for each other.



12. Blitzed and put Jiraiya near death without killing intent, and, while rusty, blitzed Manda and a bloodlusted Orochimaru.



​

 

[ObitoOfTheOrangeMask]

Nah, 8 trigram.

 

[Aegon Targaryen]

Tsunade admits inferiority to SM Jiraiya iirc, and to me that lines up with how the feats portray them too.

Overall I have them all on the same level, so Tsunade = Orochimaru = Jiraiya.

Counting in SM, it becomes SM Jiraiya > Tsunade = Orochimaru. The difficulty I have putting Jiraiya over both even starting in base is I dunno if he reaches SM against fighters of Tsunade and Orochimaru's level pressuring him.

ET for Orochimaru obviously allows him to dumpster both, but I don't count that. I guess should also stipulate I'm not entirely sure what taking over Zetsu's body grants him in terms of abilities and etc, but it's possible that might allow him to surpass Tsunade and Jiraiya as well I suppose.

Agreed totally.

My headcanon: Orochimaru can utilize natural energy at the current time.

 

[Zembie]

SM Jiraiya in combat, taking on and making the (at the time) god of shinobi admit that you'd have taken him out had you not gone in blind, is the best Sannin portrayal. After that it's Tsunade with her fight against Madara and Orochimaru at the last if we're not counting ET.

 

[Lyren]

They were all losing badly?

Mei, yes is the first one to fall: at this moment, Gaara, is seen distracted by Mei's imminent demise so he jeopardises his attention and still successfully guards (his most prominent talent) again against a simultaneous attack from 4* Susano clones and looks as if he still manages to assist Mei





Tsunade punching down a clone (her most prominent talent minus healing), while impressive, is criticised for her fighting style and then falls down the next page:


In what world, is this showing significantly better than what Gaara did? If your only metric is landing a non-fatal hit, this is a bigger problem than I thought it was.

You downplay A4's showing because he used his speed (his prominent talent) to be the second last to go down in order to 'stall'. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems as if that's something all of them were doing prior to Onoki's intervention. They were being played around like pet food.

At best, you can say Tsunade's on panel showing was significantly better than Mei's in that particular situation.

It was better than all of theirs since she was dealing damage to the susanos instead of just stalling them
Her getting hit in the process doesnt take anything from her as its basically her fightning style

Despite backing up each other both Mei and Gaara were on the ground before Tsunade who was fightning alone btw

 

[Turrin]

Itachi didnt need Totsuka to defeat Orochimaru in their first round tho
And Tsunade was stabbed because Madara clonefeinted the kages with a mokubunshin from underground the first time and becaushe was outnumbred against a set of 5 V3 susanos the second time, raikage even says her fightning just started getting sloppy when whe got stabbed which means it wasnt happening for hours off panel, now do you really think a single Itachi will be able to tag her?


But Orochimaru scales to Old Hiruzen and the sannin do as well by extension so its transferrable to them as well
What matters is when Orochimaru confronted Hiruzen himself, he said that the latter was disappointing.


Yes he is better suitted at fightning while gathering intel in a place like Amegakure
But hey, Fukasaku says that while completely unaware of Tsunade powers (mainly byakugo-sozo saisei) so why do you take his word for granted and not Chozas?
Tsunade at that time didnt have knowledge on Pain either so her silence is a moot point.
She also didnt say anything when Jiraiya admitted she was unparalleled in combat

Thats baseless tho?
Tsunade always lacked proper intel when fightning Pain to gauge her chances against him
She took on 5 Madaras clones with a rinnegan after all in the WA


Im not saying they will get utterly destroyed against susano lol, except for Orochimarus case by feats.


Because Madara was that strong not because she didnt live up to the hype as i explained earlier


She wasnt "way above" them but still above based on Jmans statement

1) Were talking about how they performed against Susanoo; so I don’t see how Itachi winning with Genjutsu is relevant; unless you can show Tsunade would have done better against Genjutsu

2) Thats V1/3 Susanoo; while this is V4; so yeah I think Itachi with a high V4 Susanoo can tag Tsunade eventually. Do you have any proof she can keep evading him continuously?

3) Yeah which means they are relative to Old Hiruzen whose >= Susanoo; that’s my point these feats are relative

4) Fusaku is unaware of Jiriaya’s powers, what? And Chouza was literally wrong

5) How would Tsunade win with intel then? You keep assuming the 5 Susanoo are > Pain, which I would need you to show proof of

6) If someone’s hype is they can’t loose; then she didn’t live up to it if she looses; it doesn’t matter how strong the enemy is

7) She can’t be above them by any meaningful margin; as otherwise they couldn’t fight her. If you want to say she is marginally above I don’t really care as that would still mean the other Sannin can take on the Susanoo

 

[Turrin]

He may survive , but he lacks the strength or combat power outside of his summons to drop down a Susanoo clone . So it's your premise which doesn't make sense .

Minato has never shown to be able to seal people , maybe with the exception of Shiki fujin which will result in his death . Then you will have to prove Minato can seal A3 without it .

And if you are referring to shiki fujin , it's not gonna work since A3 will not stop his pressure on Minato , and won't allow him to use it .

At worst , it will result in a stalemate , and Minato practically stalemated an opponent whom Obito would easily beat , despite the fact that Obito lost to Minato .

And this is why your ABC logic fails here .

Hydra could not even flinch a dying Itachi's V4 , lost its heads against it , and was negged shortly afterward . A legged Susanoo is going to stomp it considering it's above V4 in power and strength .

Ok , talk about Jiraiya and Hiruzen , and outside of their summons .

Your Hydra Orochimaru argument doesn't make sense as it couldn't put down a vastly inferior Susanoo .

It does actually , he could have stomped Jiraiya from the beginning with it , and it also counts as holding back .

1) So he has the power via his Summons, so he would just use his Summons....

2) Why would a Fuuinjutsu that can seal the chakra of an entity way stronger then Ei3 be unable to seal Ei3 chakra?

3) V4 with Yata Mirror is > V3; so saying Hydra couldn’t flinch V4 is not proof of your claim. Try again

4) How does Pain being able to beat Jiriaya with CST help your argument though. Like what are you even arguing here?

 

[deltaniner]

Orochimaru w/ P2 Edo Tensei>>>>SM Jiraiya>=Byakugo Sozo Saisei Tsunade>Orochimaru w/ P1 Edo Tensei>>Orochimaru>=Base Jiraiya>=Base Tsunade

 

[Bob74h]

Im going to list off feats and statements then you guys can think what you want so jiraya nearly died to four tails naruto and a weakened orochimaru was fighting with a older version of that same character
Base tsunade was beating up that same orochimaru.


Base jiraya bodied both itachi and kisame with just the frog stomach however itachi did say he was out of chakra
Also sage mode jiraya scales above gamabunta who can cleave off shukaku's arm we know this cause pain thought jiraya could beat him whilie no such statement exists for gamabunta

 

[Bob74h]

Im going to list off feats and statements then you guys can think what you want so jiraya nearly died to four tails naruto and a weakened orochimaru was fighting with a older version of that same character
Base tsunade was beating up that same orochimaru.


Base jiraya bodied both itachi and kisame with just the frog stomach however itachi did say he was out of chakra
Also sage mode jiraya scales above gamabunta who can cleave off shukaku's arm we know this cause pain thought jiraya could beat him whilie no such statement exists for gamabunta



Also sarutobi tells anko that minato could not beat orochimaru at this point due it being years since minati's death

Also sarutobi tells anko that minato could not beat orochimaru at this point due it being years since minati's death

 

[Turrin]

Im going to list off feats and statements then you guys can think what you want so jiraya nearly died to four tails naruto and a weakened orochimaru was fighting with a older version of that same character
Base tsunade was beating up that same orochimaru.


Base jiraya bodied both itachi and kisame with just the frog stomach however itachi did say he was out of chakra
Also sage mode jiraya scales above gamabunta who can cleave off shukaku's arm we know this cause pain thought jiraya could beat him whilie no such statement exists for gamabunta

Jiriaya was suppressed being unwilling to hand his student; Orochimaru had no such handicap. Jiriaya also managed to stop KN4; while Orochimaru failed to do so and Yamato needed to step in

Orochimaru who fought KN4 was > Orochimaru Tsunade fought.

Itachi was not out of chakra; he can use Mangekyo more times then twice in a single battle.

 

[Bob74h]

Orochimaru who fought KN4 was > Orochimaru Tsunade fought.

Actually no as the orochimaru who fought kn4 was on his death bed as shown not a arc later when sasuke killed him

Itachi was not out of chakra; he can use Mangekyo more times then twice in a single battle.

Just going off whats stated, You can dislike that if you like and he did use ms abilities like 5 times while in konoha so your wrong

Jiriaya was suppressed being unwilling to hand his student;

Evidence for that being and why are you debating me, I never made a statement there like all that was posted was scans and descriptions of them.

 

[Bonly]

From weakest to strongest I'd say Orochi=Tsunade=Jiraiya as they are more or less equal as they're strengths in different areas put them all around the same lvl and what not

 

[MagicalMiraclesOfWater65]

SM Jiraiya is the weakest, but not because he lacks the offensive capabilities comparable in juxtaposition with his peers, but because they lack similar types of lethality in contrast.

Orochimaru possesses an ethereal chakra blade that can extend indefinitely and it's composed of his chakra (the reason why he can store it in his abdomen without feeling pain due to it's penetrative blade tip power, and it's exemplified to be a magical artifact and like most magical tools in Naruto are composed of chakra) which can dice, penetrate and bypass the earthly realm by virtue of it's ethereal magical properties. It contains ethereal chakras the type that cannot be interacted with by even a magical ethereal energy like chakra due to how highly evolved complex type of chakra it is, it took the level of KN4's chakra complexity to grab it, that which is the extremely concentrated form of biju (Kurama) chakra due to how to mixes and condenses to form a cloak and it is additionally linked to the rage of the user which tangentially implies that it contains or is supplied with the exorbitant ethereal chakra volumes of the human conciousness which exists infinitely as there's nothing the human mind can't conquer, everything that happens in this world is a fruit of a thought, the production of high tech software, infrastructure, light diodes, drones, simulation of virtual space time travel the energy that composes human conciousness are what they extract from. Therein KN4's chakra is made of a biju highly potent, dense, quality filled chakras in addition to the exorbitant chakras of the human conciousness. Although this has been the case, it's implicitly shown that if the biju hadn't grasped the blade physically, it would've been pierced which implies that the exorbitant physical strength of the chakra manifestation stopped the highly penetrative blade kind of like how a blade can definitely penetrate the skin of a human but not when that exact person grasps it's body that translates to limited momentum physically.

WA Byakugao Tsunade possessed the chakra quality and volume to significantly enhance Jinton to the point of allowing it to interact with an exorbitant gargantuan chakra god like Kanzentāi: Susano'o which is explicitly stated to be an universe destroyer, and is made of one of the most powerful chakras in existence ie., Madara's chakras (DB-III) and the Eien no Mangekyo Sharingan chakras infused to produce it. It's the exact same power she infuses her CES strikes with explaining her destructive landscape altering properties, although on witnessing the perfect form of it the team immediately foresaw thier inevitable fate, however this feat still definitely skyrockets her stature compared to the likes of SM Jiraiya who couldn't penetrate Preta's absorbtion forcefield barrier w/ the chakra quality of Senpo: Incinerating Heat Oil.

This definitely exemplifies that his chakra quality is significantly lesser than his contemporaries by a significant margin. Although he definitely has the more effective, versatile arsenal in juxtaposition w/ his contemporaries, suited for mid, long and short range.

 

[Code]

He strikes Again @Aegon Targaryen

 

[Aegon Targaryen]

He strikes Again @Aegon Targaryen

 

[Turrin]

Actually no as the orochimaru who fought kn4 was on his death bed as shown not a arc later when sasuke killed him



Just going off whats stated, You can dislike that if you like and he did use ms abilities like 5 times while in konoha so your wrong



Evidence for that being and why are you debating me, I never made a statement there like all that was posted was scans and descriptions of them.

1) Prove Orochimaru condition didn’t become worse between those arcs. Also you are aware Sannin fight Orochimaru couldn’t even summon on his own while against KN4 if this was the case he would have lost to TBB without being able to summon Triple Roshomon Gates, right?

2) Cool then show me where Itachi stated he’s completely out of chakra. I’ll wait. And what are you talking about using Mangekyo 5 times in Konoha. He used it once against Kakashi and then had a a huge amount of time to recover before he encountered Sasuke and used Tskuyomi and Amaterasu. That’s 3 times over a huge period of time.

3) Are you seriously asking me for evidence Jiriaya didn’t want to hurt his student; da fuck dude.