1. NF staff is currently looking to add new advisors. We are pulling from all areas of the site. If you're interested, feel free to create a Staff Conference Room thread to discuss the details. Click here for more general info and discussion.
    Dismiss Notice

  2. Ho ho ho! It is time to celebrate!

    Christmas is coming, and we invite you to join the NFs Ho-Ho-Holidaze Event!

    Dismiss Notice
  3. NF Game of the Year nominations have started. Stop by the Arcade.
    Dismiss Notice
  4. Welcome to the forums! Take a second to look at our Beginner's Guide. It contains the information necessary for you to have an easier experience here.

    Thanks and have fun. -NF staff
    Dismiss Notice
  5. Stop Scrolling!
    Attention - When discussing new chapters of an anime or manga, please use a source from the official list of approved sources. If you would like to contribute to the list, please do so in the suggestions section.
    Dismiss Notice
  6. If you write blogs about the current anime season (for linking) or like to add descriptions / impressions on certain series and like to add them to our wiki, then send us a ticket.
    Dismiss Notice

How Can Some Men Dislike Brooding Characters but Like Batman?

Discussion in 'Konoha Country Club' started by DemonDragonJ, Jun 5, 2018.

  1. DemonDragonJ Agnus Dei

    Messages:
    22,209
    Likes Received:
    823
    Trophy Points:
    1,043
    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2006
    Reputation:
    Some women, both in actuality and in fiction, seem to be fond of brooding antisocial males with dark personalities or dark clothing, which leads “normal” men (again, both in actuality and in fiction) to wonder why those women are so fond of the brooding men, yet many of those men are fond of Batman, who is the very epitome of a dark and brooding male.

    Therefore, I am wondering: how some men can justify this double standard, how they can criticize (for example) Sakura being fond of Sasuke in Naruto, yet be fond of Batman; what does Batman have that Sasuke, Anakin Skywalker, Kylo Ren, and so forth do not have? What does everyone else say about this?
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2018
    Tags:
  2. Aphrodite

    Messages:
    46,574
    Likes Received:
    3,899
    Trophy Points:
    2,718
    Joined:
    May 21, 2008
    Reputation:
    Well batman has money and lots of it. Sasuke doesn't.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Funny Funny x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • List
  3. DemonDragonJ Agnus Dei

    Messages:
    22,209
    Likes Received:
    823
    Trophy Points:
    1,043
    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2006
    Reputation:
    Why does that matter?
     
  4. Mider T Oh Christmas T!

    Messages:
    110,071
    Likes Received:
    1,954
    Trophy Points:
    4,594
    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2006
    Reputation:
    Flag:
    United States
    Batman does more than just brood. Characters that brood for no reason (Pt. 1 Shino) are kind of boring.
     
  5. Aphrodite

    Messages:
    46,574
    Likes Received:
    3,899
    Trophy Points:
    2,718
    Joined:
    May 21, 2008
    Reputation:
    You asked what batman has that Sasuke doesnt and i said money.
     
  6. DemonDragonJ Agnus Dei

    Messages:
    22,209
    Likes Received:
    823
    Trophy Points:
    1,043
    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2006
    Reputation:
    Yes, but I fail to see why that would influence the opinion of other men toward him.
     
  7. na good kush

    Messages:
    133,542
    Likes Received:
    3,789
    Trophy Points:
    5,394
    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2009
    Catdank Faction:
    :mikebatman
     
  8. Shrike Let's Baby

    Messages:
    4,383
    Likes Received:
    673
    Trophy Points:
    819
    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2007
    Reputation:
    Oh snap, it all makes sense now. Sasuke IS Batman. He saw his parents getting killed when he was a kid, so he awakened the bat-genes, a fetish of his great-grandmother.
     
  9. Island In the Sun Moderator

    Messages:
    8,296
    Likes Received:
    584
    Trophy Points:
    693
    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2007
    Reputation:
    Flag:
    United States
    People don't read/watch Batman for his personality. They read/watch him because he does cool stuff and is a cultural icon.

    There are also a lot more incarnations of Batman than the characters you listed. Some are great while others are just plain dumb and get the hate that you described.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • List
  10. Cheeky 21st Century Schizoid Man

    Messages:
    35,807
    Likes Received:
    174
    Trophy Points:
    968
    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2010
    Reputation:
    Flag:
    United States
    They're all pretty faggy characters, tbh :nahwegood
     
  11. Robin Overdrive

    Messages:
    17,141
    Likes Received:
    142
    Trophy Points:
    518
    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2007
    Reputation:
    Batman pulls off manly and brooding, whereas the others are kinda just whiny
     
  12. savior2005 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,982
    Likes Received:
    467
    Trophy Points:
    414
    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2012
    Reputation:
    Batman is still very Alpha as fuck and is a Man and has a goal physique whereas somebody like sasuke isn't. They are bishie boys
     
  13. John Wick I'd like a dinner reservation for twelve.

    Messages:
    18,448
    Likes Received:
    1,150
    Trophy Points:
    1,043
    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2014
    Reputation:
    Flag:
    England
    Batman unlike sasuke is a man in a bat costume and has no powers, aside from when he does some bs and pulls out some kind of tech that the writers shoehorn in to ex machina an end to the crisis, he uses his intelligence cunning and will to accomplish his goals which is completely different from sasuke who pulls out some other random ability from his magic eyes

    Also unlike those character you've listed batman is a man of honour unlike them, the whole arsehole routine is an act put on to project an image of strength since he uses fear as a weapon to intimidate his enemies. The playboy womaniser act he puts on is a mask that allows him to continue being batman without being suspicious of him.

    also unlike those people he's not motivated by self serving ideals his indomitable will and sense of justice are the reason he does what he does not revenge or personal gratification
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Winner Winner x 2
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • List
  14. ShieldsPlus Plus (+) and Minus (-)

    Messages:
    4,502
    Likes Received:
    705
    Trophy Points:
    368
    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2016
    Reputation:
    @DemonDragonJ Well, unlike the other brooding/anti-social characters that are in different media, Batman differentiates from the rest of them due to the fact that when we are reading Batman, we are mostly in the front seat of Batman's perspective regarding the situations that happen to/around him. From there, we are able to see why Batman is the way he is, and how his stoic/brooding personality makes a presence throughout the stories that he mainly appears in.

    Aside from the fact that Batman is the main character of his series (instead of being a side character/footnote), so we see situations that happen throughout the series through Batman's eyes a bit more. From there, we usually end up empathizing with his actions a bit more, simply because we understand his situation/scenario a bit more.
     
  15. Luck I am the Danger

    Messages:
    3,471
    Likes Received:
    598
    Trophy Points:
    493
    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2016
    Reputation:
    Flag:
    Brazil
    Sasuke is an edgy cuck :catnoworries
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • List
  16. ShieldsPlus Plus (+) and Minus (-)

    Messages:
    4,502
    Likes Received:
    705
    Trophy Points:
    368
    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2016
    Reputation:
    Did he still get the best girl though?

    Only you can decide :catflower
     
    • Optimistic Optimistic x 1
    • List
  17. Plexa Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    550
    Likes Received:
    145
    Trophy Points:
    143
    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2018
    Reputation:
    I'm not entirely convinced that 'brooding' has anything to do with it. All those characters have more to them than just 'brooding', and they all play separate roles in their individual plots and stories. You're essentially saying "Batman is brooding, men like Batman, Sasuke is brooding, men dislike Sasuke, therefore men like brooding characters and also dislike brooding characters".
     
  18. Sir Jogga Duke of Inanity

    Messages:
    10,528
    Likes Received:
    1,973
    Trophy Points:
    1,419
    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2015
    Reputation:
    Tsunade>>>>>>Trash>>>>>>Sakura
    Batman is the good guy, Sasuke is the bad guy.

    Batman broods for something out of his control.

    Sasuke feels sorry for himself for the family he lost while trying to kill his friends.

    Plus Batman isn’t one character.

    Batman in TAS is >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Batman in Young Justice/JLU/Doom

    Batman can be a prick at times and he’s only saved by the good will he earned with his better written incarnations.
     
  19. The Kamal Haasan Crazy Hour Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,224
    Likes Received:
    63
    Trophy Points:
    279
    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2016
    Batman has high charisma stats. It's ireelevant if he is brooding or joyfull.
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2018
  20. Yahiko In Tyler We Trust

    Messages:
    3,030
    Likes Received:
    78
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2014
    Reputation:
    Batman is overrated.
    Dick Grayson > Bruce Wayne
     
  21. Djomla Student

    Messages:
    2,753
    Likes Received:
    400
    Trophy Points:
    388
    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2016
    Did you seriously compare an EMO child to the Batman? Seriously? Like, really? Seriously?
     
  22. Takano-san Doroshī no yūjin

    Messages:
    22,099
    Likes Received:
    1,225
    Trophy Points:
    1,269
    Joined:
    May 30, 2010
    Reputation:
    Flag:
    Spain, Canada, United States
    Batman is a true shinobi. That's why! I mean, even the Japanese realized that he's a badass ninja!

     
  23. Toby <b>Detective Dollars</b>

    Messages:
    18,174
    Likes Received:
    510
    Trophy Points:
    768
    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2005
    Reputation:
    Both men and women are attracted to tough characters for different reasons. They don't like the tough characters because the opposite sex likes them. Their reasons for liking these characters are independent.

    The narrative matters. Batman is a hero in his fictional universe while Sasuke is a villain in his universe.

    Your other examples are also villains: Anakin starts a hero and becomes a villain. What makes Vader likable is his redemption at the end of Return of the Jedi. Kylo Ren is also a villain - at least for now. Who knows if he gets a redemption story or not. Opinion of his character depends on it.

    Anyway, the reason these characters are appealing is that they prove something we all instinctively feel: If you are agreeable and likable you can go far, but if you lack the ability to fight for your beliefs you'll lose. Those are bad odds for living the life you want, especially if you have to convince people to give you what you want.

    If you work in sales you'll need to be able to convince people who aren't interested in what you have to sell and there will also be people who are hard to convince to buy your product.

    Likewise you'll struggle to convince people they should be in a relationship with you if you cannot present yourself in a good way.

    What people in these roles experience is adversity and regular amounts of setbacks. You need to be mentally tough to handle rejection frequently and keep at it.

    This primarily affects men since men have most of these roles in society: Men approach women in most relationships, men tend to have customer-facing jobs in sales, while women tend to have support jobs.

    Men in turn admire these tougher characters because of their ability to handle adversity, and their possession of archetypes like "grit". These dark and brooding characters are reflections of the toughness that is needed to stick to what you believe in even when the odds aren't on your side.

    Men and women like these characters when they are able to use that quality for good. I'm sure they are more divided when it comes to the ones who are villains.

    Women are primed to look for those values in men, so they look for it and consider it desirable.

    Men will probably agree all the characters you listed are tough, but they won't necessarily find them likable when so many of them are portrayed as villains. They will probably consider that a weakness in their character.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • List
  24. Toby <b>Detective Dollars</b>

    Messages:
    18,174
    Likes Received:
    510
    Trophy Points:
    768
    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2005
    Reputation:
    This depends on how emotionally mature you are and what you think matters in life

    Dick and Bruce both sacrifice a lot, but Dick prioritizes his mental health while Bruce allows it to deteriorate. Dick has romantic relationships while Batman writers are, IMO rewarded for destroying Bruce's relationships. It's very typical that a story where Batman ends up happy is cancelled or even canned in development.

    It's a destructive writers cycle if you think of it from a boy's point of view, since it teaches boys from a young age to not expect relationships with true love to last. For instance now there's a story arc where Batman marries Catwoman. I'd like to see it continue, but odds are they will put Batman back at square one with some tragic event.

    Bruce is also obsessed with maintaining his civilian facade of Bruce Wayne while Dick enjoys it but doesn't strategise about it. Bruce sees his civilian life as an appendage while Dick considers it his off-hours. This means Bruce doesn't enjoy being Bruce Wayne while Dick enjoys his free time.

    DC doesn't help by making it seem like Batman gives everything 100% while sort of implying Dick half-asses a lot, and that implies their impact is quite different as well. That definitely doesn't help send the message that Bruce ought to change, and, repeating my previous point - will keep all future Batman stories in a tragic story arc, and prolong his character's depression.

    That's bad in terms of character development and because it sends a really bad signal to boys. Allowing Batman to become a happier character would do a huge amount of good.

    I also think it's damaging to the vast majority of boys who aren't obsessed with money and dominating other people to be told they should become depressed but successful like Batman. The message is too convoluted to unpack. Even if DC means to present Batman as anything else than a success they only mean that as a half-truth.

    Continuing my point in the previous post: The way people perceive Batman more or less correlates to how men's mental health is treated in society. Right now I would argue that men's health is underprioritised and that the only type of positive imagery they can rely on are media images like Batman to motivate men and keep them involved in society.

    What do they see when they see Batman? A character who is brutal when he faces serious obstacles and who is betrayed when he gives people a chance. Men are told to just suck it up and keep at it.

    This is extremely harmful to young boys. When I see relationship advice given to boys it's always the same thing: Just keep trying because that's the only way this will work out for you.

    Nope, it would also help if women took risks and initiated. But that's likely to be punished as well since women are told to not be "sluts". These archetypes are very old and have been repeated for centuries. They won't go away instantly and it's likely we need to use other archetypes to teach positive values.

    Not saying Batman should become a coward, but since he deals so poorly with his depression his character development is at a standstill and that needs to change both for his sake as a character and for the boys who look to him as an idol.
     
Loading...