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How did 'god' come to be?

Discussion in 'Philosophical Forum' started by TheMexicanKingVII, Jul 20, 2005.

  1. TheMexicanKingVII Shadow Supervisor

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    How did god become who god is? I always wondered about this. There always has to be something that created something. So from my view point something created 'god'. There is a lot of stuff that makes me wonder. The bible has a lot of stories and so, but from my view point the Bible is just a book of morals and hope. If god does indeed exist then there is a lot of stuff that just doesn't make sense.

    If we are in a sense the only life form out there ,what is the use of other planets? To protect earth from comets and meteors. If were not too die from such things why were they created? Why are there stars? To guide us?

    How about aliens, if they indeed exist why? Could they be angels? I doubt it. Why are there aliens? If were the sole beings of the universe created by god then what need is it for them too be? In the bible it said something about a burning chariot coming from the sky.

    If god exist does he control everything? He created us and yet doesn't save us from such awful death in which most of us probably don't deserve.

    In a way god really doesn't make too much sense, he creates us with free will and wants peace for earth but doesn't interfere as much as he 'use' too in the bible.

    I can't understand how did god become too be. " I am what I am." What kind of crock of shit is this? I understand if there is a 'god' I will never be able to comprehend anything that he does.

    So I pose this question, How do you feel god came too be? Why and how?

    Version 1: God could of been created by the Big Bang with powers beyond powers. It could be very simple that we 'humans' were not exactly created by god. Humans could of existed way before this on another planet. God or Jehovah could of been on a mission by the First Humans to seek other planets but ran into a small problem and got stuck in the Big Bang in which deconstructed Jehovah and recreated him. Instead of going back and reporting he decided to try and make a better world for his race. It was then that he inhabited the earth with life form. Waited a while because still new to his uncompared and decided to try to make a human like him self. Thus he began and decided to make several life forms. Earth Forms, Humans, Angels. Angels were given a small amount of power like God to govern the daily routines and to guide and watch over the humans who were given free will and was more lenient on.

    This is just one version of how god is whom he is. ( I also understand god is actually nor man nor women but I like saying he.)
     
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  2. Left_Right The Great Sage equal to Heaven

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    My belief is that with people around, they fantasize and put themselves in a dellusion. That is the only option for their meaningless existence.
     
  3. Poison-Scythe Masked Person

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    when ur in a stump "turn to the bible"

    just doit
     
  4. Left_Right The Great Sage equal to Heaven

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    I was just wondering if christians believe the bible to be the absolute..
     
  5. Scorpio3.14 mmmmm....pi

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    The way I see it, God is not bound by our space or time. When you can see that you realise that God does not need to be "created". Beginning and end only exists because of the way we view time as linear.
     
  6. Zhongda Active Member

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    yeah.. well he's jus there.. i guess 'time' is somthin that we made up and only exists in this Universe.. 'Time' must be somthing God made.. humans won't understand.. owell!
    he's jus there.. unexplainable i guess!
     
  7. Vetrean 64.7% chance you're an idiot

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    I'm a Christian, and while it's alright with me, just as a fair warning, there may be some people who will just bash on you for this. Just a warning.

    Anyways, back to the point. No, I don't believe God was created or decreated in the Big Bang. He has always been. Time is actually our perception of things. It is slower for some people, and quicker for others. And there may be some truth to people saying that time goes quicker if you do something you enjoy.

    Say God was created in the Big Bang. (while I don't believe it is absolute, I believe it to be near-absolute, simply because some of the things foretold to happen are symbolical, instead of literal. Other than that, yes, I do believe it is absolute.) As the Bible tells us, God created everything. Now, if God were to be created by the Big Bang, who created the Big Bang? Perhaps it simply deconstructed the entity we call 'God', and reassembled him in a different plane of existence. Hmmm, sort of like he was paving the way for us by spending time in this plane of existence, then moving on after it has been perfected.

    If science, which must advance rather quickly, based on the rate it's been going, can unravel the mystery of God this quickly, what point is there in having a God? God, Jesus, Jehovah, whatever you want to call him. He is all-powerful, and while it must pain him to do so, he needs to separate himself from us, in order to preserve order, and to sort of remind us who's boss. If we start touting superiority, we end up placing ourselves on the pedestal of 'God.'

    Next, I don't believe what you say is correct, MexicanKing. First off, when we go back into the Bible, when God did interfere, it was for our good. Or rather, Israel's good, but that's beside the point.

    Yet each time he helped us, we immediately turned back to our idols and sins. Each and every time. With the exception of three people, just three people, there is no one who has not sinned. What point would there be as teh Earth continued to drown itself in sin? Would you continue to help them? And please, don't lie to yourself. Answer honestly. If for hundreds, nay, thousands of years, your chosen people, who you had made promises to, who you had borne out of slavery, and given unto a Promised Land, would you continue to perform miracles to make their lives easier as they forsake you for idols of gold, and bronze, and wood? As they turn to the false gods of their own enemies? Would you?

    And then, in the greatest act of love ever witnessed in this world, He sent his one and only Son to die on the cross! All this so that whosoever loved him may be freed from the shackles of sin, so that whoever believed in him, and accepted Christ as their eternal saviour, would not only be saved from spiritual death and eternal damnation, but would have eternal life, free from all sin.

    While the "I am who I am" may have confused some of you, it's very clear to me. In saying this, God shows that he doesn't need a fancy name, a strange symbol, or a recognizable appearance to make himself known. He shows that he should be recognizable simply because he is God, and not because he touts a name that is to be proclaimed across the land. (Though in all honesty, his name should be proclaimed anyway. Should've been, I should say) He sets himself apart from the earthly deities, and shows that He is the only God, if only people would accept him.

    Aliens? While I believe there are aliens, it is a possibility that God did not create them as he did us. While there are no doubt intelligent life-forms out there, dogs are intelligent. Mice are intelligent. Hell, even insects and worms are intelligent to some degree. Just because there are aliens, does not mean that we are not his Chosen people, as is taught by the scriptures.

    However, none of these species have been chosen as God's people. We have.

    Other planets? AS part of His grand design. If we could even hope to see into God's mind(or should it be called a mind?), there would be some purpose.

    We are taught that everything that happens in our lives, everything that we do or think is already planned out by God, and that it is all for a greater purpose. Who then, can argue that the planets exist for no purpose, if even the little lie you made to your mother back in the first grade may have some purpose?

    God has always been, and always will be. I believe he is the center of existence, and the only one to exist on all the fields that we call dimensions. He controls time and space, and can bend the very laws of nature. There is no question of how he came to be, for he always has been.

    And I realize that I've deviated from the original subject a bit. But I just felt compelled to type that.

    I realize that some people will just think that I'm some fool who doesn't know what he's doing. But the fact is, I know full well what I'm typing. And if this influences any of you, go to the bookstore or library, and crack open the Bible.

    Please.

    I hope I haven't taken up too much time of your busy lives to read this...ehehe...:sweatdrop
     
  8. Zelistor Guest

    you're getting it all wrong TheMexicanKingVII, god didnt create us,,, we created god. im serious. god was created from our minds to explain the mysterious of life. meaning the stuff we werent able to explain. its just like u said it. u ask why does bad stuff happen to good ppl. most ppl say god has a plan. others say its a series of unobservable and uncontrollable cause and effects.

    time is crazy! did u take gr 12 physics? originally physicsts beleived in absolute time. the definition of this being that god created the word a time=0secs and since then, everything has experienced one universal time. however, we have since then realized absolute time does not exist but rather relative time. if I see you going 1/2 the speed of life for 1 minute, for u, u wouldve only been going the speed of light for say, 35 seconds. but not only that. ur bad will actually have aged at this rate too. so say if ur going the 1/2 the speed of light ur whole life, when im 100 yrs old, ull only be 60. u dont even realize that time is going slower for you. our bodies cant sense it at all. it just happens
     
  9. martryn Dick in hand

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    Lukannon did a great job at explaining this, but I would just like to point out for future reference that if there are aliens they are not more advanced than we ourselves are. And they could not have existed before the Big Bang, or for hundreds of millions of years after as there were no atoms. We are as advanced as anyone.

    This is all fine and good, but you can't speak about relative time without saying first what it is relative to. God CAN create the universe at time=0 because at the Big Bang there was only one location that contained all the mass of the universe and there was only one observer, God.
     
  10. metaphysicool golden

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    What you're not comprehending here (and understably so) is the "concept" of the infinite. What you're doing is putting boundries on the endless.

    Simply: God exists and does not exist as a seperate entity from the universe.

    OK, I guess that's not so simple. What I mean is: If you put boundries, as the human mind does, on an infinite universe, you are thus constricting it, making it finite. What you're looking at is the finite, that is to say, the bounded, chained, the proverbial Prometheus version of God. That is the state, also, that we exist, seeing each other as different. But the absolute nature of the universe/God/us would be, indeed, absolute. Viewing something as "creating" the infinite is absurd. It would literally consume the being that made it.

    Physically and metaphysically the only options are that a) everything has always existed or b) at one point, everything come from absolutely nothing (that is to say, literally blinked into existence)

    of course, this is ignoring the possibility of alternate dimensions with equally powerful entities that created it, but the same thing goes for them anyway. :amazed :S :mad :blink

    That's not necesarily true. Our planet was created several billion years after the big bang. Relatively speaking, our sun and planet are somewhat young. Theoretically, There could have been races created far more advanced than ours that have already long died out. Theoretically.

    But in the end, it wasn't a "ready ..... SET GO!" for life, life moves at it's own pace.
     
  11. bigbird I'm ready for my close up!

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    Can you prove this for all the christians out there? People have faith that God exists. People have faith that God doesn't exist. You can't have concrete proof for either one. Just speculaltion.
     
  12. martryn Dick in hand

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    Actually it is quite true. It took so long for subatomic particles to make atoms, atoms to form stars, stars to explode creating new, more complex atoms, galaxies to form, planets to form, ect ect. Most scientists (that know anything about the field) agree that we're about as far along as any living thing could be, but of course that's discluding the crazies that believe in aliens and stuff.
     
  13. TheMexicanKingVII Shadow Supervisor

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    Well if the 'big bang' theory happened, which I can't prove nor disapprove because simply we were not there when it happened. What plane was it in? It had to be somewhere. It just boggles the mind, If there are other universes that were before this universe, I find it more reasonable.

    Now, I also believe that god could be just another made up entity to help guide peoples life’s. People need hope, people can not exist knowing there is no reason to exist knowing, that after life is eternal darkness and death. What we have been shown through time is the world has been a violent and chaotic one, who wants to live like this? So it is very possible that indeed god was made by humans in order to control and govern on how humanity should live.

    There are many cultures who did not know of 'out' or the Christian or so forth god but some believed in multiple gods, some believed in different things. If one sole god did in fact exist that why are there different interpretations of 1 god. Is it possible that there are multiple gods? Also take in consideration Dinosaurs a proven 'species' what need was it to be created? Why were they here? Such malicious beasts created by god or were they destroyed by god in order to create us? I'm not too sure in which dinosaurs and the cave man came in, this is 50 or 60 billions years. How long has society been around? 2005 years. So did god try an experiment billions and billions of years ago? Another very unexplained subject.

    It really makes you think, and is quiet an interesting idea.

    To state, I don't belong to any 'organized' religion but I do believe and also don't believe in god. I guess I'm in the middle trying to decide, should I go with what is there or should I just follow what is not.
     
  14. metaphysicool golden

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    While I get your point, society, i must note, began far before the birth of Christ.

    Really, now? I was absolutely unaware of this. Not saying you're wrong, just that I've never seen it. Got on references on it?
     
  15. martryn Dick in hand

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    I think this question has more than one answer depending on who you ask. Either it happened in the same plane as we are in, seeing how space is space, it just would have been space with no heat/matter/energy in it. Or space didn't exist before the big bang and therefore it happened in no plane.

    That is also a theory but not many physicists follow that line of thought because that would mean that ultimately there are answers to questions that we don't know and can never find out.

    It is my believe that there is only one God, but I think that a lot of the many gods thing came about from angels walking the earth in the early days of man. And we all know how quick the Egyptians declared a pharoah as god, so...

    Dinosaurs were part of the chain of life and evolution that led up to mankind. And they're providing us now with some kickass fossil fuels and stuff.

    Try tens of thousands of years. There were cities on earth some 17 thousand years ago.

    God doesn't make mistakes so he doesn't need to experiment.

    Course, that's all coming from a adament Christian, so... *shrug* Take what you will.
     
  16. akuma no omoigakenai saku El Chupacabra

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    I still don't get this part (though I should probably check that other about this thread to see if this was explained in it).

    Even if scientist believe that no life could have existed before life on earth (as they say life on earth happened as soon as it was possible), how does that prove that there are not more "advanced" species. If another planet's life started at the same time, it could still have evolved differently and become a life-form with higher brain function earlier than the same thing happened on earth. If the environment was different, the whole process of evolution would have to change, and they could be genetically/intellectually superior to humans. Also, a different philosophy, religion, and culture emerging among other species could influence the speed of their technological/intellectual/academic progress.

    Plus, if somehow the species' instinctual social nature were different, creating larger/smaller tribes than early humans lived in, and then larger/smaller states, it is possible that the diplomatic climate would influence cultural and technological progress. If there was more war, more technologies would be researched by necessity. If there was more peace, resources could be used more efficiently to create innovation. Or the opposite could occur in either situation.

    That's all just stuff I pulled out of my ass though. I can't back any of it up with evidence.
     
  17. TheMexicanKingVII Shadow Supervisor

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    Well having 'christian views' is nice but can we get others? Muslims?

    You know when you think about it, the whole universe is like one big ass game to god. Just some guy sittin playing it on the TV and ejoying it.
     
  18. Repent New Member

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    I think that religion itself was created due to the fact that the human mind can not phathom the fact that when death occurs, you simply cease to exist. Then again, I could be wrong.
     
  19. Aldredian_Sahn On the Road of Truth again

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    How could scientists determine such a thing if they have nothing to compare it too except ourselves?

    This coming from Repent. J/K.

    Besides, I thought the Ancients seeded us? The race that came to Earth from another galaxy millions of years ago and then ascended and went to the Pegasus galaxy. Huh? Huh? Anyone with me on this one?
     
  20. martryn Dick in hand

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    True true true. Different cultures could have spawned different, more advanced alien races. But I'm just spilling out what scientists purport. I'm a skeptic as well (more of the reasoning rather than the principle). I don't believe in intelligent life outside of whatever room I'm currently in.
     
  21. blacklusterseph004 ah, made you look ...

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    I'm not sure that the theory that aliens are no more advanced than we are is neccessarily true. I don't know for sure, but I think that the dark ages were a significant hinderance on our developement as a species. I don't fully believe in aliens though, not the intelligent kind anyway. I think if they were even as intelligent as we are, we would have detected something by now.

    "I don't believe in intelligent life outside of whatever room I'm currently in."

    This is the statement of the day! Well done.
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2005
  22. hjkou Well-Known Member

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    that could be a good point of view about the matter

    but if you seriously think about it for a sec, time being 2D or not, god HAD to be created at one point.

    also brings along the argument of religion vs science, even if science won the argument.. something had to create that single molecule in which the big bang was caused from. it didnt just plop out of.. nothingsness, and even if it did, where did the nonthingness come from?
    etc. etc..
     
  23. Jun Banned

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    I may get very flamed for this, but... me, being a 13-year theology student (yea, I was forced to be on catholic schools all my life) have pretty much all the knowledge on god like... perhaps, some other people in here.
    I came to my own conclusion after studying 'him' throughly....

    god is nothing but the first and oldest fairy tale on humankind. a way to explain the unknown... the unexplainable...... the mistakes of nature itself.

    nothing more. nothing less.
     
  24. Strider S-Rank Strider

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    not necessarily. have you ever tried explaining multi-variable differential calculus to a 7 year old? chances are that you won't be very successful in making them understand it. the whole concept of "god" could be something that is completely beyond our current level of understanding. the human mind just can't grasp it. this is sort of like what zen buddhism teaches.

    or as some people have said, god could just be an idea created by humans to explain what they can't explain, an "opium of the masses." whatever the reasons may be, god could just have been made up.

    @lukannon
    you make a lot of really good points, but i think my issue is with the idea of the "chosen people." if god created all life on earth, why would he show favoritism on a certain group of people? you could trace it back and bring up the covenant with abraham. but once again, why pick out one person and his family line to favor over all of your other creations? that's not a very loving god.

    i, too, have studied theology for a long time, and it's clear that the teachings of the old testament differ from those of the new testament. the old testament talks about the chosen people and their struggles, whereas the new testament tries to break that. christ preached unconditional love, no matter who. he taught to love your neighbor as you love yourself, whether they are the "chosen" or not.

    anyway, i digress. god's existence may be something completely beyond our understanding or completely made up. who knows? i don't think it should really matter.
     
  25. Jun Banned

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    perhaps is beyond our understanding.... but people still question it.

    thousands of years ago, MANY things were beyond human understanding and all they did was blame it to some god's will.
    same thing happens now.

    it is really uncertain what or where is god from, or if it even exists.
    until the day I die.....

    ...i'll just hang on to my questions and hope i get answers after this life is through.
     
  26. Aldredian_Sahn On the Road of Truth again

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    That's the fun thing about God, you can believe you know everything about Him from studying papers and such, but you don't need to know all that stuff to know Him. You could have researched documents on me your entire life and still believe that I'm a fairy tale, but if you had actually known me or in this case talked to me on here then you would know me or anyone throughout history in that matter. You can still know someone and not know everything about them or think you do at least.

    And everyone's right when they say God didn't come to be. He was, is, and always will be from our linear time perspective, which means He is above time and thus had to create time in order that we could be born, live, and die. I don't think things outside of time can do that.


    EDIT: And I will add that knowing God is most wonderful.
     
  27. Jun Banned

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    ehh.... you are religious as I see.
    go join the Jesus Christ FC.
    people like you make me sick.
     
  28. metaphysicool golden

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    Are you implying the religious people make you sick?
     
  29. Jun Banned

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    umm.... in a language you can understand:

    'yes'

    :thumbs
     
  30. tootaa18 That Sweet Moment Will Come

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    as if anyone would care about your stupid opinion

    i really recommend that you keep it to yourself :wink


    back on the topic.....

    i don`t think someone created God

    that`s why we worship him cuz he`s the creater of everything

    i can`t proof that there is a God out there and no one can proove that there is no God it`s a matter of faith :amuse
     
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