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How is Big Mom disappointing in terms of strength?

Discussion in 'Ohara Library' started by Luiz, Apr 11, 2018.

  1. Superstars Well-Known Member

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    Oh, hello there Gohara.

    The moment I saw you listed in the alerts I knew you would make a suspect comparison with a Sand bagging Admiral and an enraged Meme out for blood.
    :skully
     
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  2. Fel1x Friend of the Grummles

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    calling BM weak because of things happened in this arc is equally calling WB weak because some fodder backstabbed him through his chest

    it was just for the plot where SHs survived
     
  3. Superstars Well-Known Member

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    But many readers read past the backstabbing and saw Whitebeard proceed to solo everyone in his wake. Meme can't even put down a Germa side character.
    :skully
     
  4. Dunno Well-Known Member

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    Luffy didn't send Fujitora flying, he pushed Fujitora back, and it didn't incapacitate Fujitora at all. Jinbei sent Big Mom flying, and she was incapacitated and unable to keep fighting. When Fujitora got serious, Luffy was unable to do anything. When Big Mom got serious, she was unable to do anything. Also, Fujitora showed that he could catch the SHs alone in one chapter if he wanted to, while Big Mom has shown that she can't do it even with the help of her whole crew, in her home territory, in several days, and with half of the SHs missing. The difference between their showings is like night and day.

    And Luffy took serious damage from Sengoku's punch while Chopper took no damage from Big Mom's attack. And why are you talking about the Yonkou in general? This is not about the Yonkou, it's specifically about Big Mom and her abysmal feats.
     
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  5. tupadre97 Well-Known Member

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    Big mom isnt what's disappointing its this garbage ass arc that is
     
  6. Gohara Ryutoshi

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    @ superstars.

    Fujitora joking around is assumptive and we know that Sengoku isn't trolling.

    @ Dunno.

    "Luffy didn't send Fujitora flying, he pushed Fujitora back"

    A pretty good distance.

    "and she was incapacitated and unable to keep fighting."

    The chase continues after that so I'm not sure what you mean when you suggest that.

    "When Fujitora got serious"

    The idea that Fujitora is thinking that way is assumptive. And if her character couldn't do anything they wouldn't be escaping.

    "Also, Fujitora showed that he could catch the SHs alone in one chapter if he wanted to"

    That's assuming that the protagonists characters have no way of countering an island degree of rubble which I have no idea why we would assume. It's true that Luffy bleeds from Sengoku's punch but I would hardly call it a significant wound as Luffy is able to withstand it even after being significantly battle worn. And an open palm trying to capture a character can hardly rightfully be called a technique. And there's also being nerfed vs. being fully healed. And there's also a fully healed Post Time Skip Chopper likely being > a significantly battle worn Pre Time Skip Luffy. Sengoku has significantly more advantages in that comparison. :p
     
  7. redrum

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    she's dumb and her strength is somewhat situational leading to her getting clowned by people who are normally gnats to her

    this is obviously done to as a plot device to keep the sh crew alive but goddamn if oda didn't go full retard when it came to showcasing the first yonko in combat since wb :wow
     
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  8. Mr. Black Leg The Ordeal of Love

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    The thread should have ended at this post.

    WB got a chunk out of his fucking brain blown out for fuck's sake and he still had strength enough to stomp someone in the level of fucking TEACH. While her attack didn't even injure BROOK. Do you know how big is the gap between Brook's dura and Teach ? Is THAT supposed to be the person in a stalemate with WHITEBEARD ? The person that is retarded enough so that she can't control herself in a tantrum caused because of some food ? A person who can't go like what ? 12 hours without food ? Maybe not even that. I'm seriously thinking to myself right now how the fuck WB never used a plan to defeat BM like " Hey Big Mom, I've got some delicious food down under the sea. Go get it, it's delicious " and just let her retarded ass drown. Or maybe even better, just fight her, since she apparently can't go some time without food in a verse that is known for the fact that there are fights that GO ENTIRE DAYS ! If she can't finish her opponent in the first few hours she might as well be dead. I know that comparing to WB, the strongest of the Yonko, isn't a fair comparison, but come on, Ace and Jimbe have better stamina than retarded fat ass Yonko. The worst part is that I legit thought that "Hey she is retarded ?Yes, but at least she will be in a rage so bad that whoever is opposing her will die quickly" and the fucker got outclassed by THE WEAK TRIO.
     
  9. Maxlee Warm bed

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    For me her saving grace are her "iron balloon" feats that makes her virtually immune to damage, and apparently even without using haki armament. Also her soul power should be relatively unstoppable powerful, but in the world of shounen, plot induced stupidity is often a thing so that our heroes can somewhat deal with it.

    If there is one thing I'm dissapointed about, it's something I saw someone else mention a while ago here too: Mama's initial reveal was like that of some sort of horrendous cave-dwelling monstrous creature that couldn't even properly stand up, as she was drooling acidic saliva and IIRC casually throwing disappointing subordinates into her mouth. I know this is an overly used shounen trick to have your incoming new villain covered in shadows and look all menacing as hell, but Mama genuinely looked like a sick monster to me.

    Then she was revealed as some obese happy joy joy singing aunt-lady in a pink dress while her powers made the trees and clouds sing and laugh ... although at times this was joyfully creepy as well ... but it's like that other user suggested that Oda decided to take her design and character in a different way than initial conceptualised.
     
  10. Mr. Black Leg The Ordeal of Love

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    @Gohara I'm not one to usually call people out by name and tell them they are retarded clowns, but first time for everything, right ? You are a retarded clown.

    Don't even compare being pushed back and suffering zero injuries to the level of weakness BM showed.

    First and foremost: Fujitora wasn't trying and if that's not clear in your mind, then stop reading the damn manga, he wasn't taking Luffy serious at all, in fact, Fujitora downright HELPED LUFFY ESCAPE a few chapters later, if not a few panels, so if you think there was a slightest seriousness coming from Fujitora you are retarded and can't read properly, you have serious problems with reading comprehension, and I say that as an educator.

    Second: Fujitora was pushed back ... So what ? Did he get hurt ? Did he got any injuries ? Did he treat it like "Oh that would have killed me hadn't I blocked" ? No. That shit was just a little push. I can physically push Anthony Joshua heavyweight champion of the world, even more if he's not taking me serious at all. I'd have a harder time even managing to land a hit on him tho.

    Third: Aokiji was literally thrown to the sky in his first appearance in the manga by Luffy. You mean to say that it means that Pre TS, Pre Gears Luffy > Aokiji ? I guess no.

    Now let me break it to you: it doesn't matter how you look at it, Big Mom will come out looking bad. If she's extremely depowered by being like 12 hours without food, "losing to the weak trio " level of depowered ? Then she has serious problems lacking in stamina, in a universe that has fights running for days. If she's not so depowered and just retarded ? Then it's fucking easy to trick and plot against Big Mom because of being such a immense retarded, hell, you could turn her own sons against her telling " Actually, Katakuri has the cake, and he won't give it to you because he wants to eat it", in the level of retardness she's shown, she might as well fall for this, and not only that she failed to even seriously injure Brook and Chopper with a direct strike.

    Do you know how much power do Chopper and Brook have in the new world ? They are bellow scrubs. They are so beneath guys like, IDK, Don Sai, it's not even funny . And Sai got swatted aside by Luffy casually.

    That's the type of people BM failed to hurt. An almost-brainless-heart-attacked-battle-worn-organs-fried-twice Whitebeard could hurt Teach.

    And because she's "hungry" BM can't hurt BROOK AND CHOPPER ? Come on, give me a break. If you think that this isn't shameful as fuck, then you should really stop reading the manga.

    Edit: Just so you can't say that I didn't address all of your points.

    Sengoku is not a Fleet Admiral for his power at the time, even though he has lots of raw power, he was Fleet Admiral because of his wits, he was clearly old. But even then, Luffy has "successfullydefended " against Sengoku the same way that Ricky Hatton "successfully defended" against Manny Pacquiao or the same way that Doflamingo " successfully defended " against that Red Hawk/Hawk Rifle/Eagle Bazooka(I don't remember which one it was) from Luffy. Luffy coughed up blood, and when that happens it generally means that you have been damaged. Or else do you argue that being attacked in the guts and coughing up blood means everything's fine ?
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2018
  11. Santoryu Scarecrow

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  12. Jake CENA BAH GAWD KING, IT'S JAKE CENA!!

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    she's a fat woman. that's all you need to know.
     
  13. Gohara Ryutoshi

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    Big Mam's character also has no wounds which is literally one of the points emphasized throughout the Arc.

    I respect your views. However that is speculative. There is good reason to suggest that Fujitora isn't going all out however none to suggest that he isn't trying at all.

    I'm not sure what panel you're referring to specifically however Fujitora not dropping the rubble is because of the citizens. And even if you're arguing that Fujitora changes his mind about capturing Luffy that's after the clashing. :p

    No where in my argument have I made any points suggesting that Fujitora has any wounds from their confrontation unless we're including dirt marks as bruises. However the same argument can be made about the confrontation that it's being compared to. So I'm not sure what your point is.

    Again that lacks relevancy. Nothing about my argument suggests that pushing a character back automatically makes them superior in power tier.

    Your point on stamina lacks relevancy because it's not just about hunger. It's about hunger for a specific cake that has specifically been a craving. Applying that in all match ups doesn't make a lot of sense without having a good reason to think that the same specific circumstances would be in play for those match ups. Also the subordinates are tricking her character in that Arc out of selfishness. That isn't always in play in match ups. Assuming that her character doesn't win those match ups prior to being nerfed and not only is that assumptive even in that form her character has multiple top Yonkou Commander tier characters running. Top Yonkou Commander tier characters which is a tier of characters who have consistently shown no fear of Admirals and many who have even confrontations with the Admirals.

    Your point on Chopper and Brook is not only subjective it's also doubtful as they're main members of a crew that will be a Pirate King tier crew.

    Your point on Sengoku is also subjective. I've addressed the points about Luffy being wounded from that technique.
     
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  14. Mr. Black Leg The Ordeal of Love

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    I never talked shit about her dura tho. Just her stamina and firepower.

    Other than HELP LUFFY TO ESCAPE ?

    MAYBE, JUST MAYBE, I AM REFERING TO THE PANELS IN THAT THERE WERE MANY PEOPLE WHO GOT FUCKED BY DOFLAMINGO'S DOWNFALL AND TRIED TO KILL LUFFY AND HE DROPPED THE RUBLLE ON THEM ? MAYBE ?

    I won't post the pannels because this motherfucking forum blocks anything from the "manga streamers" but here, from the wikia:

    I'm almost positive that is in the same chapter as the Fuji x Luffy "fight". Go look it up, I think it's chapter 798.

    No, it isn't. The guy waited 2 days to go capture Luffy at all. He made up a rule so he didn't have to go and downright kill Luffy in a weakened state.

    The point is that is nothing at all being shameful from the Fujitora x Luffy clash. VERY DIFFERENTLY FROM THE BM X Weak Trio + Jinbe clash, which there's plenty to be shameful for.

    Oh and I really never said anything about BM's dura. She is an iron balloon alright, possibly with durability on the top 5 or top 4 in the OPverse, but with either a sucky stamina or a sucky firepower. And both stats should be very much top tier, since, you know, she is a Yonko.

    You SPECIFICALLY SAID it was something that could've been made fun of in the same light, or even more, as WEAK TRIO MANHANDLING BM. When it's not a bad showing at all, it's not a bad showing, it's not a good showing, it's barely even something to take note.

    That doesn't make any sense. If she has a craving for anything, and do not eat, then she goes to starvation in 12 hours, but if she doesn't have a craving for anything then she doesn't go to starvation in 12 hours. What kind of selective fuck up is that ?

    In a fight against another Yonko or an Admiral, that is basically a standstill, things like mental and stamina are important because it will give you an edge on the longer run.

    Whitebeard was conscious and could think of saving the rest of his crew after he had a part of his brain blown out.

    She can't even think straight if she wants to eat something.

    Who do you think will win a battle of wits here ?

    So you're saying that Chopper and Brook >>>>>>> Teach in durability. Ok, nice.

    He was. Period. Chopper wasn't even harmed by a Yonko attack.

    Yonko attack.

    Y
    O
    N
    K
    O

    A
    T
    T
    A
    C
    K

    Let that sink in. Chopper, one of the weakest members of the SH's. The strongest, Luffy, shouldn't even be able to a fight a Yonko right now.

    And fucking CHOPPER walked alway unharmed after a Yonko attacked.
     
  15. mido boss

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    i have no words to express how much of a disappointment big mom was for me
     
  16. Mr. Black Leg The Ordeal of Love

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    This. Exactly this.

    And it was L after L I tried to justify but I ended up giving up on trying to justify. What killed any hopes of her being awesome for me was Chopper, Nami and Brook + Jinbe vs BM. God oh god, I was like " She may be retarded, but hey if she ever gets close to anyone in this whole arc she will murderstomp them like they are fodder" then that happened. Oh and Brook blitzed her.

    For fuck's sake who is Brook in the grand scheme of things ? There are literally dozens of pirates who would murderstomp Brook to hell and back. And I love Brook, my favorite current SH. Because Sanji is useless and Luffy's retardness has caught up with him and his sheer dumb luck.
     
  17. Gohara Ryutoshi

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    Then what does Jinbe pushing her character back matter? For firepower her character at barely more than a toddler without Haki and without Devil Fruit skills one shotted a legendary Giant character on the most powerful Island in the series which is easily the most impressive physical strength feat in the series so far possibly excluding if Garp one shotted significant mountains. Jinbe and Luffy are amazed with Zeus' degree of firepower which is only a portion of the firepower. To reply to your point on cravings in we've seen her character not eat for days and be okay outside of wrecking an Island. The context varies based on the match ups. The degree of cravings vary. The circumstances that you're referencing are specific and do not always apply. It's possible that multiple other top tier characters have superior stamina however we have no idea what the normal stamina is with normal cravings and we have no idea if there would be cravings during those match ups.

    Those segments are after the Luffy vs. Fujitora clash. Fujitora states multiple times that he intends to capture Luffy. Fujitora even suggests that he's to throw the rubble at the protagonists characters. However the citizens are intentionally in the way.

    I don't think that there's anything shameful about both of those match ups. However it doesn't make a lot of sense to make fun of a nerfed Yonkou for getting pushed back against a fully healed Jinbe when a battle worn Gear 3rd Luffy does the same thing to a fully healed Fujitora. We agree that none of those characters are wounded. The only distinction that you seem to be making is your view that Fujitora isn't trying at all which is based on Fujitora throwing rubble at enemies however that segment is after the Luffy vs. Fujitora clash and after Fujitora changes his mind.

    VERY DIFFERENTLY FROM THE BM X Weak Trio + Jinbe clash, which there's plenty to be shameful for.

    Kaidou and her character have feats and portrayal in a different dimension from any character that we've seen so far.

    Based on what? We have yet to see any fair one on one Yonkou vs. Yonkou and Admiral vs. Yonkou clashes for more than a panel.

    Not necessarily however I don't agree that they're the chumps that you're suggesting that they are and you're also comparing a Yonkou trying to capture a character with their hand vs. a Yonkou and Fleet Admiral using their Devil Fruit skills. :p
     
  18. Mr. Black Leg The Ordeal of Love

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    I said jackshit about Jinbe pushing her out of the ship. And her firepower is not impressive at all, if WB or BB, for example, so much as punched Chopper, he would fucking die. And Chopper no sold it.

    Fujitora could've captured Luffy in the two day time Luffy was recovering, if Fujitora actually wanted to capture him. It is obvious.

    Again, straw-maning my argument. Read my posts again, I never even touched on the subject of Jinbe pushing her. My argument revolved around Nami, Chopper and Brook handling their own against a Yonko. Which is ludicrous. Starting from Nami clowning Zeus, Chopper tanking an open palm strike from Big Mom, to Brook blitzing her and Zeus and cutting Zeus.

    Oh and this is what a nerfed yonko is supposed to be able to do:

    Spoiler:




    Yeah, and that's why I said jack shit about her dura. Your straw-man of my argument tho, said.

    Uuuuh the fact that the Yonko stood a standstill ? If it was a curbstomp for either one, they would attack each other.

    Luffy should be able to kill them from a G4 attack. She's a Yonko.
     
  19. Maxlee Warm bed

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    At this point Mama is more like a strange curiosity with very weird quirks than a legit powerlevel 9000 endgame shounen boss villain. I mean she's an iron balloon, has a food disorder, lives in a wonder land fashion, supposedly eats people alive, has a super strange power based on everything soul, likes to have a big family, and so on and so on. She's still hella strong regardless, but I think we should accept she's not designed to be your average common evil dude.
     
  20. Etherborn Cosmic Impulse

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    She sorta got stalled by Nami. I mean, that's not all around pathetic since Nami has been amazing this arc, but on a relative scale? It doesn't exactly put her on a pedestal.
     
  21. Daisuke Jigen Blue Jacket

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    And had her own personal homie stolen by her...I mean, a few years ago, if someone told me this was going to happen to a freaking Yonko, I would have said they were crazy. Now? :gglife
     
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  22. Dragon D. Luffy of the Stars

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    She's not.

    She is disappointing in terms of intelligence.
     
  23. Admiral Hakuryō White Hunter

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    She isn't. People on here just love to complain.
     
  24. Soca The Mud and the Oil Super Moderator

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    Literally everyone agreed she's strong. Try again.
     
  25. Gohara Ryutoshi

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    Fair enough. However I'm replying to the point of not comparing Luffy pushing Fujitora back to the other feats and the feats that I'm comparing it to are the Jinbe feats. So when you questioned that comparison I assumed that you were referencing all of the comparison and not simply the Luffy vs. Fujitora feat. Also keep in mind that this is not a discussion between a couple fans it's a discussion with many fans so those are points that I would like to make anyways.

    You mentioned what Whitebeard would do in that segment. Yet when Whitebeard uses Devil Fruit skills John Giant although incapacitated withstands the technique and gets up after that Arc. When a barely more than a toddler version of the other Yonkou without Haki and without Devil Fruit skills does the same to a more legendary Giant character her character accomplishes more than Whitebeard. Amplify that degree of firepower many times and add Haki and Devil Fruit skills with a lot of AoE and that's what that character has as firepower as a Yonkou. Also Luffy and Jinbe disagree with your ranking of that firepower. They have both shown amazement at that degree of firepower.

    Your reply to that argument involves assuming that Chopper is a chump and that it's a full fledged technique. Not only can we not rightfully assume that Chopper is a chump I'm not sure why an attempt at grabbing a character with a hand would be considered a full fledged technique. It also doesn't make a lot of sense for a Yonkou at barely more than a toddler without Haki and without Devil Fruit skills to be far physically superior as the adult version. The barely more than a toddler version has easily one shotted a far physically superior character to that version of Chopper.

    Fujitora makes a deal that he will attempt to capture the protagonists characters based on a game and the game initially doesn't ask him to do so and then when it does Fujitora states on multiple occasions that he intends to capture the protagonists characters. Fujitora changes his mind on multiple occasions.

    That has nothing to do with competence and/or power tier and is only something that specific skills can do.

    It doesn't really resemble an open palm strike at all outside of being open palm. It doesn't resemble an open palm strike in application and/or stance. We've seen that Yonkou do far more using far less. Plus Chopper doesn't want to even get in the way of a sleeping version of that Yonkou using less than an open palm strike to swat a fly.

    I'm not sure that I agree that it's a speed blitz however Brook is one of the faster characters in the series. As for Zeus that's true however even Jinbe has no counter to Prometheus.

    Also you suggest that Gear 4th Luffy should be able to incapacitate those characters easily. Yet not only does that Yonkou easily brush off Gear 4th Luffy we've also seen a Fleet Admiral not incapacitate a significantly battle worn Pre Time Skip Luffy with a full fledged technique.

    Okay so what about the Admirals?
     
  26. TheWiggian World's Strongest

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    You know something goes wrong when W3 characters constantly embarass one of the the strongest pirates of the planet.
     
  27. Admiral Kizaru One Piece Expert

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    You know something is wrong when Gohara has to resort to dishonest whataboutisms and damage control essays longer than most doctoral theses. :hestonpls
     
  28. Gohara Ryutoshi

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    I'm not really disagreeing with most of the claims. I'm simply showing comparisons where things like that have happened even more so to the Fleet Admirals and the Admirals. I simply don't think that the Fleet Admirals and the Admirals should get any flack for those things. And feel free to point out anywhere I lied, and I'm curious to see what whataboutisms you're referencing when not only are there none in the post I'm even responding to multiple whataboutisms.
     
  29. TheWiggian World's Strongest

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    :bookerskully
    You also know that no form of mental gymnastics can make up for all the L's one of the strongest characters alive has collected this arc. Man the bagpack is full with L's.

    Do you want to drop the selected item to add another L to the slot?
    Kappa


    Well as long as the torch has been passed down and the receiving individual can defeat 3 top tiers at the same time we are all good.
    :lbj
     
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  30. Admiral Kizaru One Piece Expert

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    Your reply to Superstars was basically, "wahh wahhh what about Luffy surviving Sengoku's punch & wahh wahhh what about what about Fujitora being sent flying by G3 wahh wahhh".

    @Dunno & @Mr. Black Leg have already exposed the disingenuity of your whataboutisms and how they don't even come close to comparing to the shocking treatment BM has received here.



    She has "impressive portrayal" though according to Lord Gohara. Kappa
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2018
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