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How many Kuzan(s) would it take to defeat Big Mom?

Discussion in 'One Piece Battledome' started by Orkz, Jul 9, 2018.

  1. Orkz an Ork that ate 'hito hito no mi, model : NINGEN?!'

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    I think its shown in MF War already. If Kuzan didn't eat logia fruit, he would've died. look at how easily WB's quake cracks him.
     
  2. TheWiggian #AdmiralsIncorporated

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    Yea the Yonkou faced him when he was already on life support, it's like you guys seriously think if they ever really faced him which is contradicted by their balance he was off his support and would've had similiar problems on the battlefield.

    Not a good argument for he Yonkou since they couldn't defeat him either.
     
  3. Mr. Good vibes ZZZZZ

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    Thats just how logia form operates or did you forget Luffy and Robin also did the same thing when they fought him.
     
  4. DoctorLaw Shichibukai

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    -One shots a potential final villain without his DF and half his face, two pieces the other
    -Destroys Marine HQ
    -Maintains composure through pain
    -Tanks several admiral level attacks, hundreds of gun shots and stabs
    -Tilted the ocean as an attack
    -Respected by the Fleet Admiral
    Apparently not Yonkou level

    Gee, what did Yonkou BM do?
    -Didn't one shot Chopper, Brooke, Luffy, etc;
    -Barely destroyed the Sunny with half the crew defending (none of the M3)
    -Lost her mind and a lot of her decision making
    -Tanked a missile
    -Nearly fell in the ocean from an attack from Jinbe
    -Disrespected by Brooke
    Yonkou level

    Dying Whitebeard did more damage to MF with 5 top tiers standing against him, than kinda hungry BM did to a ship with 5 SHs standing against her :hm:hm:hm:hm:hm:hm
     
  5. Erkan12 DB and OP Expert

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    He used 3 attacks on Blackbeard, Blackbeard didn't even take a serious wound, didn't even lose his consciousness and he continued to fight against 2 Admirals at the same time and you're calling that ''one-shot'' ? Nice joke. Blackbeard killed that massively weakened Whitebeard, that's the official info.

    Doesn't matter if he destroys it or not, he failed to save Ace, his goal was saving him and he failed.

    I don't see how that makes him Yonko level.

    Katakuri and Doflamingo did that, Doflamingo survived his internal organ shredding by stitching himself alone. They aren't close to Yonko level.

    Every one of them was successful, that's not tanking. That's a very high endurance. At the end he was going to die because of those wounds.

    Thanks to his DF power. Caribou has a massive AoE too, that doesn't increase his combat level, he is still a one-shot material for Pekoms or X-Drake.

    What respect has anything to do with his power level?

    She didn't even bleed after being betrayed by Capone Bege (do you see the huge difference between WB / Squardo?) and their only plan to hurt her failed massively because of her insane scream + CoC Haki.

    Whitebeard couldn't even use CoC Haki in the war due to being too weak.

    Almost killed Carrot and Chopper in her sleep. One-shotted Vinsmoke Judge, and Reiju. Tanked a G4 Punch with ease. Easily smashed Bege's Big Father Castle with her barehands. Confirmed by Jinbe that she is unstoppable. Even at the sea (where Jinbe can use water much more efficiently) Jinbe was running away from her. Defeated Luffy and Sanji and captured them with Germa66.

    Do you see the difference? You can see from the past comments that people said Big Mom will be defeated in that arc, but they were not even close to wound her let alone defeat her, not even once. They failed utterly.
     
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  6. Admiral Kizaru One Piece Expert

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    0.9 Kuzan's should do it.
     
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  7. DoctorLaw Shichibukai

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    I brought up the composure through intense pain to contrast with Big Mom losing it over an appetite, and as for BB getting one shot, I mean when WB actually used something other than his DF on him. Put him down instantly, hand on throat.

    Did you seriously compare the man who can tilt oceans and create mega tsunamis in an instant to the guy that can't get out of a barrel. Caribou was your example? Not Enel/Crocodile?

    And let's call it high endurance like you said, or perhaps top tier endurance.

    Top tier endurance, strength, DF, Durability all the way up until the end. Gee, what other Yonkou do I know that are famous for their top tier endurance, strength, DF, and Durability?

    At the end of the day, MF WB accomplished a lot more than BM did while on his deathbed, surrounded by marines with no help. MF destroyed, Akainu beaten, Blackbeard beaten. Compare to BM, who had her full crew chasing half the SHs, and she only managed to damage the sunny. Kaido is the most unstoppable creature in the world, but its been noted that he's been beaten and captured many times, and he never could beat WB, who was never captured, and only beaten by the most powerful forces in the world while he had a handicap.

    MF WB was top/yonkou/admiral tier, whatever you wanna call it. Arguing against that for the sake of your Yonkou >> Admiral rankings is ironic, since I think most people who view admirals and Yonkou on the same level would certainly put a healthy old WB above any admiral.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2018
  8. TheWiggian #AdmiralsIncorporated

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    There's is a reason WB has the best feats, portrayal and hype behind him. No other character comes close to him so far. The next best are Kaido, Akainu and Shanks.

    WB was shown to be on life support for years and the Yonkou still couldn't defeat him in all those years.

    Not really a good argument for the Yonkou against Admirals. The Marines accomplished what the pirates failed to do in all their time reigning in the NW.

    The irony.
     
  9. Erkan12 DB and OP Expert

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    Yeah, by surprising him with Bisento. Teach was physically strong enough to stop WB's punch, that shouldn't even be possible in the first place.

    And top tier dying. WB died. Marco needed to carry his crew. Imagine Kaido is dying, or BM is dying and Katakuri or Jack is leading their crew... What a disgrace. BM didn't even bleed in the entire arc.

    One person is dead, and the other is not even wounded, and you're comparing these two characters here.

    WB's Haki level was decreased, that's what we know. He didn't even use his CoC Haki for once in the entire war. His CoO was so decreased that even Squardo was able to catch him off-guard. He was far away from his Yonko level.



    You can't be serious with this.

    WB pirates completely lost it, he failed to kill Akainu, he failed to kill Blackbeard, he failed to save Ace. WB died, Ace died. Marines completely won that. And MF wasn't destroyed, lmao. Just stop. A newbie Quake user Blackbeard did more damage than WB did.

    No body touched BM, she gets her wedding cake, she humiliated Germa66. Luffy ran away like a little bitch despite having help from Jinbe, Pedro, Caesar and Capone Bege. He is captured twice, and that plot bomb saved everyone.

    No Yonko would kneel and spits blood and then gives a free hit to the enemy, that's just pathetic. No Yonko would need help from their subordinates. Just imagine, Jack is saving Kaido from Aokiji... Lmao. Just stop being bias, and see the truth.

    WB in MF was no Yonko level.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2018
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  10. Dove Explosive

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    Based on what I’ve seen from Big Mom, even excluding the amount of plot armour the SHs have...I honestly think that Aokiji alone has a solid shot to bring her down by himself, if this was just a 1 on 1.

    We’d have to assume Big Mom’s durability is as monstrous as her size is gargantuan, and if she can land hits on Aokiji, it will cause a lot of damage. I don’t think her weather-altering abilities would do much here. Her homies would also be fodder, unless she uses them
    to fly around for mobility. But her haki-imbued punches are powerful, and she may possess more raw strength than Kuzan.

    We have a general idea where Aokiji stands in relation to Whitebeard. He is capable of fighting him one on one and neutralising the aftershocks of his powers(tho WB’s tremors does the same to his ice). Big Mom if bloodlusted, might have the edge though, ultimately.

    2 Kuzans would tag team destroy her.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2018
  11. The Pirate Hunter Roronoa Zoro

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    Scaling characters based on their encounters during Marineford can be difficult - especially if we are using a linear A>B>C system - as we can draw different conclusions depending the on context.

    In my opinion, Whitebeard during Marineford was still the World Strongest Man as far as potential is concerned. Yes, his ability(talent, skill, or proficiency in a particular area) was on a steady decline once he removed his medical equipment, however, [I believe] he was still able to tap into his full power for short bursts(what we saw with Akainu); but he isn't able to maintain it. Whitebeard and the Admiral's performance during Marineford doesn't really imply a massive gap between a Yonkou and Admiral or damage Whitebeard's status among the Yonkou.

    2 Admirals should be enough for any character in One Piece.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2018
  12. Gohara Ryutoshi

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    Even if that is true which we don't know the version of Whitebeard's character being discussed isn't the version that you're referencing so what does it matter? :p
     
  13. Yin Yin Within Yin God, #Boosette / SC Meme-Let The Creativity Flow

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    1 and a bach of Semla.
    :fangirl
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2018
  14. Dove Explosive

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    2 Admirals in Garp and Sengoku were enough to take Shiki down...although apparently it wasn’t easy as half of Marineford was destroyed.

    But nah regardless of difficulty, no single being in One Piece can take on 2 Admirals and win.
     
  15. Gohara Ryutoshi

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    Some of us fans would argue that Garp is > Admirals and we have no idea if Sengoku's skills are limited to that of the average Admiral's or if he's capable of achieving a superior rank and simply hadn't yet because Kong is Fleet Admiral. :p
     
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  16. Dove Explosive

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    Yeah so I’d assume prime garp and prime sengoku, as well as prime Shiki were just monsters a cut above the rest, with Old WB being the standard for how strong those guys were.
     
  17. Gohara Ryutoshi

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    True however it isn't necessarily the same thing that a character superior to most yonkou can't be > 2 average admirals because 2 supreme admirals are > 1 supreme yonkou. However that isn't in reference to this thread. That is in reply to your point that no character in One Piece are > 2 admirals. I agree that 2 average admirals are > some if not most of the yonkou. :p
     
  18. Orkz an Ork that ate 'hito hito no mi, model : NINGEN?!'

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    Then why did Akainu can still maintain his form when he got quakepunched by WB?
    He's minus leg now. So he's in 0.9 state already. hoho.
    Yep, Aokiji still can't be killed by WB's haki. but I still get the feeling that he did worse performance than Akainu.

    Probably because he's unmotivated in general. oh well...
     
  19. Gianfi Well-Known Member

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    2. BM can counter Kuzan’s DF thanks to Prometheus, she is also more versatile since she can switch from being a swordwoman to a brawler to Prometheus in seconds, she is basically 3 fighters in one. However no one can take on 2 admiral level characters
     
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  20. hbcaptain Well-Known Member

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  21. Gledania Yeah but no.

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    Big mom would :

    High diff Ao kiji.
    Mid diff Katakuri/Marco

    Lose High / exterem diff to 2 Admirals. Whether it's Aokiji kizaru or Aka inu.

    Not sure for Green bull and Fuji. I put them under the 3 previous Admirals.
     
  22. Erkan12 DB and OP Expert

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    If she is stronger than 1 admiral (and Big Mom is), yeah she can take on two.

    Blackbeard's first concept was too powerful for even 3 Admirals at the same time.

    You think EoS Blackbeard, Roger and Prime Whitebeard can't take 3 Admirals at the same time?

    E.Oda foreshadowed it when Luffy challenged 3 Admirals at the same time in the MF battle, EoS Luffy will also reach that level.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2018
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  23. Gledania Yeah but no.

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    :thunk ?? Source ?
     
  24. TheWiggian #AdmiralsIncorporated

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    It was a concept that he discarded afterwards. In the NW he portrays the Admirals just as the Yonkou as the ultimate benchmarks to defeat by becoming the Conquerer PK.
     
  25. Erkan12 DB and OP Expert

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    One Piece Green -
    1. 1 Yonko = Marine HQ + Shichibukai
    2. Doflamingo may have signed a different contract with the WG as being a warlord.
    3. In the original setting of Blackbeard's Yami Yami no Mi, he was even unbeatable to the three admirals.
    4. There is a big possibility that a pirate from Roger's crew named Copper or Bronze appearing later in the story, since Roger is Gold and Rayleigh is Silvers.
    5. It's very sure that there would be a pirate wearing eye-patch showing up in the final arc.
    6. The only way so far to figure out Blackbeard's mystery is to think about Ace's words regarding BB's age.
     
  26. Admiral Kizaru One Piece Expert

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    @Gledania

    It doesn't say "1 Yonko = Marine HQ + Shichibukai" as per Nerdkan's specious post above which conveniently he doesn't provide a credible link for, i.e. as you can infer from his reputation on here, it's entirely full of bullshit. It says Yonko (Four Emperors) = Marine HQ + Shichibukai, which is in line with what Garp alluded to at Water 7.



    As for your post @TheWiggian summed it up. It was a concept Oda briefly considered before scraping, probably because he realised how unworkable it was. Just like he once considered Shanks not appearing at MF or the SN's not appearing at Shabondy. Trust this clown above to resort to such desperate & underhanded methods to prop up his fantasies. :wow
     
  27. Erkan12 DB and OP Expert

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    Even you (an extremely bias Marine wanker) can't actually believe Garp meant 4 Yonko = Marine + Shichibukai.



    The same guy said the Marines can't even deal with 2 Legends at the same time. (Old Rayleigh and Whitebeard). Let alone 2 Yonko, and 4? Ok.



    Yonko = Marine HQ + Shichibukai
    (here I think Oda meant each one Yonko.)

    I am the only one who gives the true info to the people, unlike you, who spreads misinformations all the time.

     
  28. Admiral Kizaru One Piece Expert

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    Yeah that's your problem here.


    Yonko means Four Emperors. Just because it doesn't fit in with someone's biased view of power levels doesn't give you or anyone else free licence to make up whatever shit they want. :kanyeshrug
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2018
  29. Gledania Yeah but no.

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    That doesn't make sens. The shishibukai make the 3rd pillar of strenght. They can't be (as a whole, whit their crew) inforiror to ONE yonko crew if they are the third pillar , knowing there is 4.

    You don't seriously believe shank + his crew = The whole marineford + Crocodile and his crew , donfla and his crew , hancock and her crew , moria and his crew , Jimbei and the sun pirates , kuma + Mihawk ...
     
  30. Admiral Kizaru One Piece Expert

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    We literally had an arc where One Emperor crew (and the strongest one as well) got utterly rekt'd by the marines and shichi almost to the point of extinction, with most of the top marines barely trying and some Shichi in open revolt yet these fucking retards will still spout this crap.


    Oh well, tier specialists will tier specialise. :catshrug
     
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