1. Welcome to the forums! Take a second to look at our Beginner's Guide. It contains the information necessary for you to have an easier experience here.

    Thanks and have fun. -NF staff
    Dismiss Notice

How To Destroy America

Discussion in 'Perspectives' started by nocturne, Jun 4, 2005.

  1. nocturne

    Messages:
    10
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2005
    The Future of America

    This is meant to make you think.

    Dick Lamm, the former Governor of Colorado, has thoughts that are particularly poignant.

    Last week there was an immigration-overpopulation conference in Washington, DC, filled to capacity by many of American's finest minds and leaders. A brilliant college professor named Victor Hansen Davis talked about his latest book, "Mexifornia," explaining how immigration - both legal and illegal - was destroying the entire state of California. He said it would march across the country until it destroyed all vestiges of The American Dream.

    Moments later, former Colorado Governor Richard D. Lamm stood up and gave a stunning speech on how to destroy America. The audience sat spellbound as he described eight methods for the destruction of the United States. He said, "If you believe that America is too smug, too self-satisfied, too rich, then let's destroy America. It is not that hard to do. No nation in history has survived the ravages of time. Arnold Toynbee observed that all great civilizations rise and fall and that 'An autopsy of history would show that all great nations commit suicide.'"

    "Here is how they do it," Lamm said:

    First, to destroy America, "Turn America into a bilingual or multi-lingual and bicultural country. History shows that no nation can survive the tension, conflict, and antagonism of two or more competing languages and cultures. It is a blessing for an individual to be bilingual; however, it is a curse for a society to be bilingual.

    "The historical scholar Seymour Lipset put it this way: 'The histories of bilingual and bi-cultural societies that do not assimilate are histories of turmoil, tension, and tragedy.' Canada, Belgium, Malaysia, Lebanon all face crises of national existence in which minorities press for autonomy, if not independence. Pakistan and Cyprus have divided. Nigeria suppressed an ethnic rebellion. France faces d difficulties with Basques, Bretons, and Corsicans."

    Lamm went on:

    Second, to destroy America, "Invent 'multiculturalism' and encourage immigrants to maintain their culture. I would make it an article of belief that all cultures are equal. That there are no cultural differences. I would make it an article of faith that the Black and Hispanic dropout rates are due to prejudice and discrimination by the majority. Every other explanation is out of bounds.

    Third, "We could make the United States an 'Hispanic Quebec' without much effort. The key is to celebrate diversity rather than unity. As Benjamin Schwarz said in the Atlantic Monthly recently: 'The apparent success of our own multiethnic and multicultural experiment might have been achieved not by tolerance but by hegemony. Without the dominance that once dictated ethnocentrically and what it meant to be an American, we are left with only tolerance and pluralism to hold us together.'" Lamm said, "I would encourage all immigrants to keep their own language and culture. I would replace the melting pot metaphor with the salad bowl metaphor. It is important to ensure that we have various cultural subgroups living in America reinforcing their differences rather than as Americans, emphasizing their similarities."

    "Fourth, I would make our fastest growing demographic group the least educated. I would add a second underclass, unassimilated, undereducated, and antagonistic to our population. I would have this second underclass have a 50% dropout rate from high school."

    "My fifth point for destroying America would be to get big foundations and business to give these efforts lots of money. I would invest in ethnic identity, and I would establish the cult of 'Victimology.' I would get all minorities to think their lack of success was the fault of the majority. I would start a grievance industry blaming all minority failure on the majority population."

    "My sixth plan for America's downfall would include dual citizenship and promote divided loyalties. I would celebrate diversity over unity. I would stress differences rather than similarities. Diverse people worldwide are mostly engaged in hating each other - that is, when they are not killing each other. A diverse, peaceful, or stable society is against most historical precedent. People undervalue the unity it takes to keep a nation together. Look at the ancient Greeks. The Greeks believed that they belonged to the same race; they possessed a common language and literature; and they worshipped the same gods. All Greece took part in the Olympic games. A common enemy Persia threatened their liberty. Yet all these bonds were not strong enough to over come two factors: local patriotism and geographical conditions that nurtured political divisions. Greece fell. "E. Pluribus Unum" - From many, one. In that historical reality, if we put the emphasis on the 'pluribus' instead of the 'unum,' we can balkanize America as surely as Kosovo."

    "Next to last, I would place all subjects off limits ~ make it taboo to talk about anything against the cult of 'diversity.' I would find a word similar to 'heretic' in the 16th century - that stopped discussion and paralyzed thinking. Words like 'racist' or 'xenophobe' halt discussion and debate." "Having made America a bilingual/bicultural country, having established multi-culturism, having the large foundations fund the doctrine of 'Victimology,' I would next make it impossible to enforce our immigration laws. I would develop a mantra: That because immigration has been good for America, it must always be good. I would make every individual immigrant symmetric and ignore the cumulative impact of millions of them." In the last minute of his speech, Governor Lamm wiped his brow. Profound silence followed. Finally he said, "Lastly, I would censor Victor Hanson Davis's book Mexifornia. His book is dangerous. It exposes the plan to destroy America. If you feel America deserves to be destroyed, don't read that book."

    There was no applause. A chilling fear quietly rose like an ominous cloud above every attendee at the conference. Every American in that room knew that everything Lamm enumerated was proceeding methodically, quietly, darkly, yet pervasively across the United States today. Every discussion is being suppressed. Over 100 languages are ripping the foundation of our educational system and national cohesiveness. Barbaric cultures that practice female genital mutilation are growing as we celebrate 'diversity.'

    American jobs are vanishing into the Third World as corporations create a Third World in America - take note of California and other states to date, ten million illegal aliens and growing fast. It is reminiscent of George Orwell's book "1984." In that story, three slogans are engraved in the Ministry of Truth building: "War is peace," "Freedom is slavery," and "Ignorance is strength."

    Governor Lamm, walked back to his seat. It dawned on everyone at the conference that our nation and the future of this great democracy is deeply in trouble and worsening fast. If we don't get this immigration monster stopped within three years, it will rage like a California wildfire and destroy everything in its path, especially The American Dream.
     
    Tags:
  2. Praetoriani

    Messages:
    95
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2005
    I can't speak for other Nations, but our friendly neighbourhood Belgians have no problem with any "tensions of being bilingual" of which you speak, I think.
     
  3. Kojiro Ganryu Sasaki

    Messages:
    9,586
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2005
    Nice read... Let me get to you when i've actually manage to add something of value O_o
     
  4. Kineas

    Messages:
    143
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2004
    Many countries in the world have substantial minorities in their population, and not all of them wish for autonomy or independence. A glaring mistake in his speech: Malaysia's minorities are not pressing for independence or autonomy, just equality. Not to mention that most of them have come to accept the system in Malaysia that favours the majority race of the population.

    Also, cultures can coinhabit peacefully. Sometimes, we don't even need the spectre of the law to keep the peace between different cultures in the same town. If we lose our ability to assume that not every person who's different from us is dangerous and unacceptable, society is in serious trouble.
     
  5. Eden Prime

    Messages:
    1,562
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2004
    That's a very long post. Well, about how to destroy America...give us chocolate and hamburgers, we will do the rest.
     
  6. kireato

    Messages:
    35
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2004
    Err... I am belgian... And i can tell you that there indeed are problems with the fact that two cultures are in the same country... It's not pretty at all...

    Not that we're not friendly. :)
     
  7. DeathGuise_of_Oblivion

    Messages:
    488
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2004
    Nice work. But your last paragraph is wrong. If we don't stop illegal immagration its going to override California by the middle of next year. Also, is it just me, or are the so called "majority" the minority. I live in Arizona, and I see at least ten-times as many mexican/hispanic people than white people.

    And in Belgium, the problems that are arising withing the ethnic backrounds, is between the Frenchies and the other smaller ethnic groups. In that part of Europe theres a small ethnic goup (forgot their name, its hard to remember) are heavily persecuted and are treated almost as bad as the "untouchables" of India. They can't have most jobs, they can't send their children to most schools for education, and the ones they can send them to are cramped with the other races. The samller ethnic groups have come together and are trying to form their own political party, but are facing many difficulties, due to the Jim Crowe like laws, when elections come up. Thus the French majority usually have the more important offices.
     
  8. Eden Prime

    Messages:
    1,562
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2004
    California And United States = "Neo Mexico"
     
  9. Hitomi_No_Ryu

    Messages:
    1,702
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2004
    hmmm...maybe if we turn all "Welcome to Mexico" signs facing towards Mexico, the citizens of Mexico will get confused and then start thinking that where they live now is America...
     
  10. martryn

    Messages:
    31,422
    Likes Received:
    216
    Trophy Points:
    1,432
    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2005
    That was a great point made. I agree completely. Rep to nocturne.
     
  11. Revanold

    Messages:
    2
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2005
    Well, I was going to suggest we draft in somebody like Lord Zedd... given how production of Power Rangers happens solely in New Zealand nowadays. ;)

    ... but hey, in all due seriousness, that was a very interesting read.
     
  12. Katara

    Messages:
    239
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2005
    Yeah, America is only two centuries young compared to Rome's thousand years; give us time and we may just destroy ourselves. ;P Or tell us our currency is failing like crazy and our economy will destroy itself.

    But something about that article or speech or whatever it originally was is kinda confuzzling. Is Lamm referring only to Mexican illegal immigration or all immigration as a whole? If it is mainly referring to the illegal side of it, then...meh.
     
  13. Praetoriani

    Messages:
    95
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2005
    ...


    Are you comparing the United States with the Roman Empire?

    That, and the Roman Empire was officially an Empire 31 BC, and fell 476 AD, if you were talking about the Roman Empire, which I assume. No thousand years.

    It's late though, I may just have no clue what I was just answering to.
     
  14. NarutardKK

    Messages:
    3,450
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2005
    No matter how great the country seems to be or how long its dynamic rule has lasted, it can be torn about within a matter of parsecs. IMO, God does this that way there will always be differences and He uses that to test us on what kind of person we are and how we react about those differences.
     
  15. tuggumkee

    Messages:
    39
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2005
    If you stopped or tried to get all the illegal mexican's out of california, california would die. besides the bordering countries of Mexico, there really is no illegal mexican presence. This is because they are looking for labor and money, it'd be difficult to spread out further than the border.

    I think the best way to destroy America would be to get California to seperate into its own nation ^_^ (born and raised in Cali)
     
  16. Sublime

    Messages:
    845
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    268
    Joined:
    May 13, 2005
    America already has plenty of things that could end up destroying it , maybe we should thank our current president for that.
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2005
  17. baconbits Retired Staff

    Messages:
    30,433
    Likes Received:
    1,263
    Trophy Points:
    1,882
    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2005
    That's a silly point as no one president, whether you hate him or not, has that much power in our system. Immigration is an excellent example of something that could destroy our superpower status and something that politicians from every party have messed up.

    Another thing that could destroy America is if there is a housing bubble. Think about it, most Americans have lots of debt tied to the value of their homes, so if they have to fold they tend to rely on that equity. While we used to be able to go bankrupt without penalty new laws are now making that very difficult. Now if the value of all houses crashes then all those people who are in debt and all those states that try to tax property values to bankroll social programs are going to have some serious problems.
     
  18. nocturne

    Messages:
    10
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2005
    Oh crap- did I put this in the debate forum? I meant to put it the general forum... can someone move it?

    Anyways, sorry if i wasn't clear-this was an email, but i thought it was a very striking article... Why is it so striking? It's the antithesis of everything we've been taught.

    And Lamm isn't talking about just two cultures cohabiting. Notice the salad bowl metaphor- a mix of several different cultures still keeping their own cultural identity. I heard that in LA over 100 languages are actively being spoken.

    Hardly, the country is its people. I hate when people start to attack the president for the country's problems when in reality its mostly our own fault or the government as a whole- there's a thing called checks and balances that balances that [obviously] balances the powers of each section of the government.
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2005
  19. Sublime

    Messages:
    845
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    268
    Joined:
    May 13, 2005
    Ok, for those president bush fans, instead of neg-repping me and be too scared to leave your name maybe you could prove me wrong here instead?

    Btw for that fool who told me in the rep that I'm 15 and I don't know nething, just because I'm 15 doesn't mean I don't know about Bush's intentions and the war on iraq.
     
  20. bronzhawk

    Messages:
    873
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2005
    Just wanted to comment on three posts, here I go!!

    I think it just depends on where you live. The majority are still a true majority. I believe the caucation (sp??) population is around 50-60% in the States. Supposedly the majority will also be a minority in the next 20 years, don't trust the source, but it would be interesting if true. But what you said lives up to the salad bowl comment in the orginal post. I believe the mossaic analogy works better. Basically we have giant "clicks" across the country, and as the original article states, that isn't healthy for our country.

    Not true. We have illegal aliens up here in Minnesota, and they aren't Candian. Granted we do not have as many illegals as, say Arizona, but there are more than there should be.

    How about instead of making point plank acusations, how about you prove how he "destroyed" the country. Facts and figures would be nice. And don't just say "he went to Iraq for oil" and then leave it there. Join the debate in the "Problems with Bush" forum here at Narutofan if you wish to continue, here it would be kind of off topic. BTW your avitar is funny as hell.
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2005
  21. Sublime

    Messages:
    845
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    268
    Joined:
    May 13, 2005
    Okay here are a few examples, but before you read remember I don't want to offend ne1 else or turn this thread into a Bush debate thread.

    I'm not going to use the oil example ^_^.

    There were lots of other countries telling Bush to back out of Iraq because they were killing innocent civilians and I can't believe this happened but it did: United States soldiers were seen beating and torchering innocent civilians. Bush knew this but he still sent more soldiers to Iraq so he the other countries were disappointed at the decision fromt he U.S. and created a lot of problems for us.
    Bush was spending United States money to help rebuilding Iraq too, but the soldiers he sent were killing nonterrorist people and destroying Iraq ( not always intentionally though ) so that was sort of a waste.

    That's all I'm going to say. Don't want to make it more of a Bush debate thread than it already is, if you're really interested in what happened in Iraq you can pm me.
     
  22. marz76

    Messages:
    54
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2004

    Oil in Iraq does not equate to the immigration issue....

    It is true the US will not be as strong as it was in the Early 20th century... Every world power will lose it's grip..... the US is no exception... as for the all the mexicans migrating to the US... the US slaughtered million of indians and mexicans trying to grow and become this great country........ The US has more pressing issues to contend with... such as economy, aids, nuclear war... if the The influx of mexican nations really scares everyone, then they should try to learn about them.... ignorance is bliss, but it is also blind fold to the real facts....
     
  23. dmby

    Messages:
    171
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2005
    best way to destroy america? Nuke to New York. ok im done.
     
  24. bronzhawk

    Messages:
    873
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2005
    He was responding to one of my posts (although he didn't quote me... that is where you might have been confused).

    Alot of what Dick Lamm (the former Governor of Colorado) had to say has to do with one of the things you said, economy. Illegals coming over here hurt our economy. Sure we get cheep labor out of them, but they put a heavy burden on the tax payers from them taking advantage of our health care/ wellfare system without ever putting anything into it. Even mexican americans that came here legally dislike other mexicans coming here illigally.
     
  25. nocturne

    Messages:
    10
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2005
    It's like a match made in heaven: illegal immigrants starting to take over a lot of low-tech jobs (in CA at least) and much of our high-tech jobs are being outsourced to India...
     
  26. Procyon

    Messages:
    5,560
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2005
    My brother just read 1984...This is a good point and stuff...But I really don't think illegal immigrants can do that much damage...Maybe if we improved their foreign conditions, they wouldn't want to immagrate to the U.S., illegal or not.
     
  27. Meijin

    Messages:
    895
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    267
    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2005
    I'm not one for typing up long reports, so I'll just give you my answer.

    My answer : 4 more years of Bush =X
     
  28. Kineas

    Messages:
    143
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2004
    It's too easy to say "Kick all the illegal aliens out of America!", without considering the fallout it'll have on the businesses that employ them.

    Which businesses in America would employ illegals? Certainly not Mircosoft, Starbucks, Macdonalds, and their ilk. The cost saved from the employee's wageroll isn't worth the bad publicity if they were found out.

    Businesses that hire illegals tend to be small firms, that don't get any limelight. Also, what would drive those companies to hire illegals would be because they'll be winding up their businesses if they paid more to hire legitimate workers. For these small firms, every dollar saved is an extra dollar towards keeping their books free of red ink.

    If someone waved a magic wand and uprooted illegals from their jobs worldwide now, plenty of businesses over the world will crumble tomorrow. :p It might not cause an economic fallout, but the corporations will certainly move in to fill the gap, and judging from all the anti-gobalisation protests we have whenever G8 holds a meeting, many people are going to be unhappy about it.

    So if we lived in an ideal world, companies won't hire illegals, because locals in that country will be willing to work for a lower wage, thus rendering the want to hire illegals redundant. When I say lower wage, I don't mean the minimum wage, but that's a problem with developed countries currently. The underqualified usually tries and has to ask for a higher wage to sustain their standard of living which they're used to.

    This problem can be solved by having the government at different levels take affirmative action though, so it isn't really a Catch-22.
     
  29. baconbits Retired Staff

    Messages:
    30,433
    Likes Received:
    1,263
    Trophy Points:
    1,882
    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2005
    Well I think that our minimum wage laws create the need for illegal employment. Lets face it, if I have to hire an American I have to pay them more than what the job is worth, so by just looking at the supply and demand curve I'm going to hire less workers than I normally would, which creates unemployment. Also the immigrants allow me to hire people at the market price that I'm willing to pay. What results is a system that actually encourages both sides to participate in breaking the law. What should be done is a removal of the minimum wage and closing of the borders.
     
  30. Le Male Absolu

    Messages:
    25,921
    Likes Received:
    502
    Trophy Points:
    1,608
    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2005
    Flag:
    France
    I don't know in USA but in my country we thinks China will be the number one country in the world.
     
Loading...