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how'd Yondaime control it!

Discussion in 'Konoha Library Archives' started by gotta-get-me-some-ramen, Jun 1, 2007.

  1. gotta-get-me-some-ramen

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    my appologys if this has been posted before but i was thinking about the kakashi gaiden story line when yondaime tells kakashi that it was fruitless for him to have created the Chidori, as genetically without the sharingan he couldnt possibly control the speed of such an attack.

    now my question is how the hell did Yondaime manage to avoid feeling any confusion or any disconbobulation after using the Hiraishin no jutsu to teleport to new location, even if he was prepared for it, it stills seems odd that his reactions would be perfect once got to the new location.

    if any of you have ever played an online fps and got a lag bubble, you'd know what i mean cos your heading one way then BAM! a second or two later your looking, in a completely different direction and it takes a moment to get your barings. so it would seem to me that unless he had the sort of eye's (not saying he had the sharingan) that allowed him to follow every movement during that flash and adapt to the new surroundings instantly, it would be a useless jutsu that would only server to get him into the enemy's range then confuse him for a few seconds before they killed him.

    you may argue that he knows where he will be landing cos he could see where he is teleporting too but that has been 100% proved wrong in the gaden arc. he teleports to that random nin who craped his pants at the sight of yondy and tried running away after he attacks kakashi and then when he appears at kakashi's side (i know u dont see him use the Hiraishin but it would seem logical that he did).

    so im just wondering if anyone has any light they would care to shed on this as it does seem mighty strange that he would have such an awesome jutsu that would serve him no good at all were he not able to stay ahead of it himself. i know he was a genious but that doesnt change genetics and maybe it could be an explination to all the AL=yondaime voters about his eye colour.
     
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  2. DethStryque

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    meh......i dont think that is important all you can do is speculate.....But this can be '' Plot No Jutsu '' at its finest :)
     
  3. whitefang21

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    Good question ...don't know
     
  4. jameshawking

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    He obviously knows where he's teleporting, and has a semblance of where the related enemy is as well. Now assuming that he teleports exactly in the same pose it isn't too hard to assume that it could simply be that Yondaime goes "So Iwanin#492 is going to be behind me right there, so a quick stab should get rid of him quick enough and I can move on to Iwanin#493"
     
  5. gotta-get-me-some-ramen

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    lol now that would be very hap hazzard for a person who is considered the greatest shinobi to have ever lived. not to mention potentionally embarasing.

    your also forgetting the fact he didnt only use them one at a time (pretty sure this was illustrated in the gaden arc when he arrived at the bridge and there was a s**t load of tagged kunai waiting to be used).

    it could be PNJ, it could just be that he assumed that what he saw just before the flash was what was waiting for him but thats the fun of speculation.

    i personal prefer to believe that there is something more too it (hopefully not sharingan, not cos its broken but cause it would be interesting to see an alternate version, byakugan not included)
     
  6. fireofthewill

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    You know the markers on the kunai, they tell him where to teleport. Yondaime can sense where each one is and therefore get a good idea of where he's going to teleport. If he's seen that location before, then it shouldn't be too hard. Remember when they threw 100s of kunais during the battle with the rock nins, Yondaime could clearly distinguish between each of them which probably means he can distinguish every marker and knows exactly where each one of them is.

    Plus, this is his main jutsu so Yondaime's probably had a lot of practice with this. His speed is also good anyways, even without that, so he probably overcame all those difficulties.
     
  7. gotta-get-me-some-ramen

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    your missing the point alittle bit. regardless of how skillfull he is or wheather he knew exactely where each one was, a high level shinobi would never use an attack that left them potentially voulnerable.

    thats like a boxer throwing wide swings because he thinks he knows where his opponent will be and so forgets about his defense. it just too risky. thus even with all the confidence in the world, if he lacked the option to change his plan on an instants notice with that kind of jutsu hed still be going in partially blind. and he wouldnt be able to change his course of action without taking in every detail of his location the moment he appears.

    its something i would expect of naruto, to charge in head first but i seriously couldnt imagine the fourth using something as his main jutsu that held to many unknowns each and every time.
     
  8. masterriku

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    maybe he travels to another dimension were time does not move hence when he teleports all he really did was walk up to you in another space time contium i don't know really.
     
  9. The Fourth Hokage

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    Actually, someone posted something like this recently because if you look at the manga panel there are two streaks. That shows that yondaime actually ran to grab Sasuke (he was that fast)
     
  10. Yellow

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    It's instantaneous movement. No oponent can react to it in time.

    And every move is a risk Your never really sure of any move. So what is Yondaime's move was a risk. He never messed up which shows how good he must have been since you seem to think it was such a risk.

    :yondaime :bow :bow :bow :bow :bow :yondaime Yondaime Owns All!!!
     
  11. Turrin

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    I assume that the tags act as scanners...so that whever the seal tag is yondaime can sense the entire area around the seal tag...and everything thats moving in and around the area the the seal tag covers right before he teleports. Then since he has an indepth knowlege of the area....he is able to controll exactly where he lands in respect to the ninja/ninja's in the area.

    For example if there was three rock ninja and a seal tag in the middle of them...yondaime could instantly know the exact spot to position himself so that he can take out the first rock nin w/o giving any of the other nin's a chance to re-act....before he can etheir use his natural speed/skills to take them out or teleport a second time. You say that he would experience momentary disorientation like when kakashi does the chidori or some one teleports....in a fps...but he wouldn't be dis-orient because before hand he would know exactly where he was teleporting too and already have his attack planned out and have already figure out all the possible dangerous of counter attack based on the information the seal tag gave him. Unlike kakashi who w/o the sharingan can only charge head on at the target and hope that he is so much faster then the opponet that he will not recieve any damage or a counter attack...because in kakashi's case he is going by human sight alone...and thus it was impossible for him to use the jutsu that tried to mimic yondaime's yellow flash...w/o the sharingan to allow him to see the future movements in his mind of the opponet...while the seal tag if i am correct works in the same way for yondaime execpt it acts as a scanner for his eyes and detects all the movement in the area based on the chakra of the opponets and thus through sensing the chakra through the seal tagg yondaime can use a jutsu that normally only people with the sharingan or another in-human traite could

    Aka
    Sharingan - Allows the user to read the subtle flow of chakra in the opponet and read his movements based on that...which the normal eye could not follow

    Yondaime's Seal Tag - Scanns the area and allows yondaime to read the exact position/movements of the opponet based on their chakra signatures
     
  12. moridinamael

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    After a lag bubble, everyone will be in different places; after Hiraishin, no one except Yondaime has moved, since it's instant.

    After a lag bubble, you don't know exactly where you'll be; Hiraishin puts you right where you are aiming.

    Just try closing your eyes, taking ten steps forward, and then opening your eyes. You don't really need to get your bearings, you're probably where you expected to be.

    My point is, it seems perfectly reasonable that a renowned ninja would be able to use this jutsu effectively.
     
  13. gotta-get-me-some-ramen

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    a personal lag bubble is different tho, im on wireless :/ so sometimes i get them and it continues my movement so when it ends im looking in some completely random direction and it takes a few seconds to realise where i am and re adjust. if u were to take those ten steps in an instant your brain wouldnt have been able to process the change fast enough so when you open your eyes u could still experience some disorientation. especially if your eyes were open, would look like you skipped a few frames in a film or something, enough to make u sick i recons!

    as for turrin's comments. that makes alot of sense and i had similar thoughts to u on that. the only issue id have with that is when he is using a large number of them at the same time, ala the rock ninja's on a bridge, with that many scanners kicking info into his skull it could be confusing to the max. tho he could just activate them one by one but that does hold risks if he needs to escape right away as he would have to activate one that would let him have the space he needs and so cycling through them would provide a slight weakspot in his timing. tho he is yondaime and so could probs easy make up for that.

    i think that the dimensions one is a possibility also. he may only be able to follow a string like space of chakra to the tag and so not create any action in the dimension. he does work with dimensional jutsu quite often. with the death god being a prime example and for arguments sake if he is the AL. the holographic projectsions (havent seen anyone else except akatsuki using this), bijuu containment? and possibly the chakra copies (tsouten?) all being candidates for dimension altering jutsu's.
     
  14. jgalt7

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    sharingan is not used to control the speed of chidori, but rather warned kakashi of how an opponent might counter such a fierce attack, hence, sharingan helps the user of chidori anticipate possible counters.

    hiraishin....the kunais/seals have intructions i suppose....narutoverse, i guess one can assume or give an educated guess that since it's teleportation compared to that of summoning, it involves different phases before materializing. since skippping from point a to point b involves time, one can argue that during the transport, he exist in a different phase of reality
    (phased out, like one cannot see the death god, escept the victim and the jutsu caster), and just before he materializes to where the kunai is and while he is still in that different pahse of reality, he chooses his bodyy position.

    so i guess a phase shift.
     
  15. IonDragon

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    First, you don't know the exact mechanics of the jutsu (no one does) so don't jump to hasty conclusions.

    And second, even if you're right. Are you seriously comparing reality with fiction?
     
  16. Lollaff

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    I think you're on to something here, similar to the way Tsukuyoumi works, when Hiraishin is used, Yondaime can see things going in normal speed, but for everyone else it just passes maybe a second.
     
  17. Godammit

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    I dont think so. Then the attack will be Uber Pro hax .. meaniing he can kill enemy underway to the main enemy.

    It just teleports him. I dont understand you guys that u dont accept it as it is
     
  18. Lollaff

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    I don't exactly get what you're trying to say, first of all, he's comparing it to another fictional world, which imo seems pertty decent, and second, he doesn't draw any conclusions, he's opening up for speculation, which it seems everyone else but you managed.
     
  19. gotta-get-me-some-ramen

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    thank you, i apprieciate the fact that the majority posts have been from people that have been open to speculation. im not trying to prove nor disprove anything with 100% certainty nor am i stating any theory as fact. just looking for answers in a debatable environment. were it not for these mystories kishi intentionally?! leaves us i certainly wouldnt read naruto!

    as for what jgalt7 said, thats quite the vocab your using my friend, was just a more pretentious way of stating that it could be a form of dimensional displacement (dont get me wrong i like pretentious). as for that being hax (in a world with the sharingan... lol! but seriously) like i said, maybe there is a very narrow string of chakra that connects him to the seal and he can only follow the path to the end like a tunnel and not interact with anything till he gets to the end. that would reduce its uberness but still keep it in the realm of godly!
     
  20. Turrin

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    I would assume that...since he has practiced with the jutsu alot that he is able to focus on single tags even though many are sending him information all at once. If you think about it rember right before he faught the rock nins...and had all of the konoha shinobi throw a huge amount of tagged kunai...he stood focusing on that rock...deep in concentration. So when there are a huge amount of seal taggs he probably has to meditaite for a little bit and take in all the information at once by focusing his mind...then begin teleporting to the first and finally last area which he has all planned out from the information of the seal taggs before he even teleports
     
  21. Distracted

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    He wasn't vulnerable after using it in the manga. You're putting way too much thought into this.

    You're saying he wouldn't know where he is afterwards... obviously he DID know where he is cause he would appear in the exact right place at the exact right time.

    What more is there to say? Obviously there was some mechanism behind it that we don't know about, or maybe he just was used to it.

    And don't give me this BS about high level ninja not using techniques that potentially leave them exposed... Mangekyo Sharingan leaves the user exposed, Genjutsu leaves them exposed... Kakashi was a jonin and his Chidori left him exposed
     
  22. Spencer_Gator

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    I'm sure he knows where he is teleporting..
     
  23. Purble Place

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    lol actually everyone forgot one thing, maybe kishimoto just didn't think about it, didn't realize that after teleportation yondaime would have some trouble getting his bearings.
    edit: so we just have to assume he knew where he was after teleporting.
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2007
  24. IonDragon

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    No, what he's comparing is real life reaction time with the one in the narutoverse and assumes that they're the same. Which they obviously are not considering that there are people capable of moving around with great accuracy under great speed (Rock Lee for example). To able to react to things as fast as Rock Lee can, you need reflexes that far surpass that of any human being on this planet.

    So comparing the two worlds is pointless. Just like it's equally pointless to speculate about the finer mechanics behind magic, which is what you're trying to do. And yes, ninjutsu = magic.
     
  25. The Fourth Hokage

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  26. gotta-get-me-some-ramen

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    thats only a half truth as without a comparative view, nothing would be special!

    take their speed for example, without compairing it to real life youd be sitting their going "so". also i wasnt actually creating a comparison i was meerly trying to illustrate my point through something that is of common referance to most people.

    even behind magic there is science, simply saying that it is because it is, is perhaps the most ignorant view of the world i have heard from these forums. burn the witch cos magic is magic and cant be explained... what are u talking about the world is round!!!!!

    lastly like i have said if we dont speculate the world that has been created and theorise the possibilities from within this world, so instead, meerly accepting what we see as undisbutatable fact would infact considerably lower the enjoyment of any reader as it stops you becoming involved with that world as it becomes unrelatable to your own. so if you arent here to speculate or join in on the discussion, then get the hell out of my thread!
     
  27. SleepingDisaster

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    time lag, of course not,
    real ninja can't jump that high or do time travel

    they're just lines and dots, so yondy can do whatever kishi draw him

    but since you really putting too much thought into this
    my opinion is
    when he teleported he doesn't see the enemy, but sense, we all don't know how far he can detect enemy, but he knows there are enemies around him and also how many of them, since he is a jounin, maybe his detection skill already reach the top, and he know where is the enemy facing, so
    just do the moves and he will hit right in the spot
     
  28. fireofthewill

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    well, if you've ever seen the game animation for Yondaime's hiraishi, they have everything stop, then a flash and Yondaime's with his opponent. Before he moves and right after, time slows down, so maybe in between his instantaneous movement before and right after he teleported, time stopped except for him (except he can't move or that would be too broken) and he can get his bearings.
     
  29. King Scoop

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    Well he is controlling space time when he uses it. So maybe time for him is going at normal speed, while its going extremely slow for everyone else. It pretty much works the same for the Flash from DC when he's running.
     
  30. jhin22

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    i just hope someone actually knows the technique and teaches it to naruto, maybe JIRAIYA or KAKASHI, so that we'll get to know its mechanics.
     
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